Why do people say class design is dumbed down?

[Daikoku]

Cata Marksmen was the shit. One of my favourite ever specs, shame hunter is like pulling teeth now.

Most of that ability are still in the toolkit or on pet bar so why making a screen false on purpose?

[Chemii]

Because people like to complain. The classes now are hardly different in terms of Buttons needing to be pressed regularly than they were in TBC or Wrath.

Thank you for highlighting the problem. Peak class design was in Cata/MoP and still well refined in WoD to some extent but it has been downhill ever since.

[Daikoku]

6 BUTTON from Cata ARE TRINKETS/MACRO so 46-> 40

While BFA has MendPet/Dismiss/Call/Revive on the same button so 24->27

[Chemii]

Most of that ability are still in the toolkit or on pet bar so why making a screen false on purpose?

My comment has nothing to do with keybinds, if you played Hunter back then you would realise how far it has fallen, even BM was fairly fun, especially in WoD. Sorry to hurt your feelings.

[Irian]

Because as a DPS I have a filler spell, some cooldowns and a proc or two. Every single DPS is like this. There is almost no variation.

Some of the worst offenders include Havoc DH and pretty much every single caster not named Demonology or Fire, who are essentially all just the same class with shifts in focus.

There's obviously a bit of hyperbole but the larger point to make is how there's essentially nothing in the way of passives or interesting spell interactions to be found. Gone are the days where we had classes like frost DK that had a fast paced button-masher gameplay style, enhancement shaman with a focus on procs and autoattacking, buffs that interact with our party members like Focus Magic, Dark Intent and Symbiosis. Every class is pretty good at soloing and has excellent self-sustain, everyone has burst, and everyone has a filler with a proc and a few cooldowns.

It's worth noting that I haven't actually seen a new spell or ability that really surprised me or one that I saw people really talking about since MoP. It's very by-the-books generic "this deals damage" "this deals more damage" "this deals damage over a longer period" "this is a talent that buffs an ability" "this is a talent that gives a proc" crap. People are starting to realize that Blizzard ran out of cool class ideas years ago and miss the cool and unique stuff they arbitrarily tossed to the side.

[paragraphgorilla]

Oh snap you failed again.

I'm playing the same class since vanilla so

But I guess that LFR with 50 spell must be awesome

Then enjoy your epic M+ experience while I enjoy my classes that actually have more depth to them other than builder>spender on private servers

[Daikoku]

My comment has nothing to do with keybinds, if you played Hunter back then you would realise how far it has fallen, even BM was fairly fun, especially in WoD. Sorry to hurt your feelings.

My feeling are still fine, dont worry.


My issue if you quote a misleading image made on purpose.


If we wanted to smack BFA with MOP was enough posting this


comparing to BFA

Where passives are pretty lame and boring "increase dmg" yawn




This is what made MOP great as hunter, decent passives tie to class design, also dont forget glyphs

[Nerovar]

This is what made MOP great as hunter, decent passives tie to class design, also dont forget glyphs

Yes. Passives are quite often overlooked.

[ArenaDk]

on the official forums someone posted a macro that could do the entire bm rotation in one button lmao

But but but in classic THE BEST GAME EVER, most classes only used 1 button. HOW DARE YOU to flame that

[Daikoku]

But but but in classic THE BEST GAME EVER, most classes only used 1 button. HOW DARE YOU to flame that

But but but but people compared also to mop so suck it up with this classic meme

[Daikoku]

Yes. Passives are quite often overlooked.

Also oversimplified like Azerite Traits that are 90% " xyz chance to get yzx secondary stas for 5 sec" that is pretty lame

[Charge me Doctor]

Because some people don't understand what class design is and follow the mantra "more is better, more for me even more better". Clinging to useless abilities, effects or illusions, and applying doublethink in sense of - "the game should be balanced" and "my class should be superiour", so when ridiculously broken or unbalanced shit gets removed or fixed - they grab their pitchforks.

[Pilek01]

the classes are made so even noob's can make good dps. It used to be that the better players could do 20-40% more damage than noobs. Now it's smash 2-3 buttons in a order. Also Blizzard made almost every spell on global cooldown so game is made much much slower for the bad players to keep up with the better ones. Also healers needed to have reflexes to be good.

[PewPewArrowz]

People mistake having a bunch of worthless abilities with no point in ever using let alone having on your bars for complexity. The only real difference for most specs from Legion, where class design was considered great for the most part, is the loss of the artifact clickable ability.

And even in some cases those abilities are still present, some baseline, some talents. Completely dumbfounded how people would prefer 50 spells (of which you use 4) instead of what we have now.

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6 BUTTON from Cata ARE TRINKETS/MACRO so 46-> 40

While BFA has MendPet/Dismiss/Call/Revive on the same button so 24->27

How many of those did you use regularly in every scenario? Also I don't see PvP talents there, don't see any on use trinkets? For gods sake you don't even use macros (Missdirection mouseover or Focus target) (Mouseover traps) (Turtle cancel aura), yet you complain you have a abundance of binds not being used, ok duuuuuuuuude.

[Rehyl]

My feeling are still fine, dont worry.


My issue if you quote a misleading image made on purpose.


If we wanted to smack BFA with MOP was enough posting this

comparing to BFA

Where passives are pretty lame and boring "increase dmg" yawn




This is what made MOP great as hunter, decent passives tie to class design, also dont forget glyphs

Good Quote. you just pointed out one of the big flaws of class design.
The Baseline abilities.
Nowadays, almost every spec is a litterally a different class, you have 3-4 abilities across all specs, but other then that, you got 1-2 cooldowns, 1-4 basic abilities, and a bit of utility thats mostly from the base.
Back then, you had alot more abilities shared across all specs, even in MoP when you had the talent system we have now.
Lets take Mage as an example, its a good one.
Currently, besides Frost Nova and Iceblock, you only have Abilities "themed" after the Spec you are playing, meaning the only arcane spell you got on fire is sheep and counterspell, on Arcane...you got frostnova and thats it with the other Schools. Back then you had Arcane Missiles, Arcane blast, Arcane explosion, everything was baseline, i probably forgot something and you could also say, you dont need those abilities, i'm going to disagree with you there.

Only because an ability is not used 24/7 as a main DMG Fillers, doesnt mean they are useless nor do they waste space, they all added a certain flavour and usefullness into the Game, that good players could use.

This is also something that distinguished between a good and a bad player, its no joke that the current class design is a big reason that pvp is litterally dead.
Or lets take Snapshotting as example, you might say this was just a hassle to have, but on the other hand this was also something that distinguished between a good and a bad player.

i dont disagree with blizzard changing things, but the way they did it was completly wrong.
I took a look at the 3.3.5a abilities i had back then, compared to Live. it got me really really sad.
My biggest issue in BFA it to find a Class that's actually fun. So far i found not a single spec that didnt feel 1/4 done and completely destroyed compared to back then.
i could talk all day about removed things, because it just makes me sad to see WoW's current state of Class Design. it is not good.
Needless to say, leveling isnt fine either, 120 levels and you get almost nothing for a lvl up.
Regarding Endgame, you can do so much content thats good but if the class or spec feels like garbage not even that will hold up.
Classes should be the main focus of the Game since you are doing the Content with them, and currently Blizzard saying that they wont do any changes mid-xpac is just a bad excuse.
WoW needs more active abilities, or very interesting passives, otherwhise, as Gordon Ramsey whould say, its bland, and just not fun.

[Charge me Doctor]

on the official forums someone posted a macro that could do the entire bm rotation in one button lmao

Hunters being one button DPS is kinda their thing throughout wow history. Warriors used to tank with one button macro too. Just like paladins being one button healers, but this one got changed at some point.

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No, people remember the fantastic ~6 years in the middle.

Like PW:S spam kappa
Or combustion cheese
Or heroic strike on fury warrior
Or arcane mage DPS at the end of expansion

Pinnacle of class design.

[Dadwen]

Class design is fine if WOW was a MOAB but it's shit for a MMORPG, I leveled one of everything (sometimes two) in MOP because the classes were fun to play, ever since WOD (when I bother subbing) I can barly manage to level up one or 2 toons at all. WOW was an RPG game there should be some fun and useless type buttons and more options on how to play, streamlining is fine for MOAB type games but leave that shit in overwatch..

[vashe9]

On my priest I have tons of abilities to use, with holy having the most. Could I get some perspective from people that think the classes are too easy to play?

Because they want the useless spells they never used back. Even the "EZ as hell" specs like BM are harder to play than vanilla/bc/woltk mages (do you remember the arcane spec with actually TWO spells ? I do)

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Class design is fine if WOW was a MOAB but it's shit for a MMORPG, I leveled one of everything (sometimes two) in MOP because the classes were fun to play, ever since WOD (when I bother subbing) I can barly manage to level up one or 2 toons at all. (it's was a RPG game there should be some fun and useless type buttons and more options on how to play, streamlining is fine for MOAB type games but leave that shit in overwatch..

In vanilla mages had a shitton of spells and guess what was used in raids ? FROSTBOLT only !

[Dadwen]

In vanilla mages had a shitton of spells and guess what was used in raids ? FROSTBOLT only !

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or against me, there should be a shitton of spells, sure there can be a optimal "rotation" but there should be some flavor if you're not into end raiding to have fun with the class in PVP or running around in the world.

[vashe9]

https://youtu.be/klm2Q7xu_d4

that

ITs pvp... even NOW you don't have a "rotation" in pvp, unless you play like shit

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Not sure if you're agreeing with me or against me, there should be a shitton of spells, sure there can be a optimal "rotation" but there should be some flavor if you're not into end raiding to have fun with the class in PVP or running around in the world.

People dont care about flavor, people will use what is the more efficient. I play hunter and I still have a lot of spells than are only useful in some specific situations (like flare).

The only thing I lost in BFA is the abilty to battle rez and 1min CD artifact spell ...