OMG - Blizz did it! 8.2 feels like a new expansion

[Wangming]

- Playstyle: GCD mostly, "feel" of the character through input via attacks etc.
- Art style: Of course a newer game will win on technical stuff. I still can't stand the art style and WoW's art ages so well for a reason.
- Story: It's just not my cup of tea, same as with GW2. Many aspects work together to make one either feel for or not feel something for a story. WoW has campy story but it's also the only MMORPG to ever make me interested in that aspect.
- The armory system: I much prefer having different classes, different races, different identities. My army of alts carry 9+ years of collected memories from my time spend in the game. I've spend considerable amounts of time naming, playing, dressing, progressing them.

-Playstyle: Everyone mentions to GcD. Considering how all of your more important skills are OGcD, I never could take this argument seriously.
-Art: It ages well, cause the game rarely returns to old zones. TBC zones bleed your eyes now.
-Story: You have interesting tastes
-Armory system: Again, nothing is forcing you to not make alts. You totally can. Nobody is forcing you to use the armory system for anything beside professions. It's about choices.

[Eleccybubb]

Not really because we can clearly state that Cata and WoD sucks big dicks compared to MoP Legion.


Legion could be worse than WoD only to trolls.


BFA is literally a gutted Legion so isn't really hard to see why it is considered meh at best.

BFA is literally worse than WoD. There is no arguing it. The subs have haemorrhaged harder than any other expansion.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Not really because we can clearly state that Cata and WoD sucks big dicks compared to MoP Legion.


Legion could be worse than WoD only to trolls.


BFA is literally a gutted Legion so isn't really hard to see why it is considered meh at best.

Exactly.

BfA is a gutted, worse realized Legion.

It's not WoD lack-of-development and crappy design choices-level of bad.
But try telling that to the crowd of perpetual naysayers.

[Daikoku]

The only reason for people to change idea on WoD Vs BFA can be

PvP Gear
Tier Set

Which are pretty legit

[Queen of Hamsters]

BFA is literally worse than WoD. There is no arguing it. The subs have haemorrhaged harder than any other expansion.

This person being a prime example of said crowd of logically impaired naysayers, spouting "the subs have haemorrhaged" despite having absolutely zero data to back him up.

[Eleccybubb]

The only reason for people to change idea on WoD Vs BFA can be

PvP Gear
Tier Set

Which are pretty legit

Nah man it's so fun this new Azerite armor crap where you have to hope that piece drops and then realise that it's the wrong piece with the garbage traits.

[Daikoku]

Exactly.

BfA is a gutted, worse realized Legion.

It's not WoD lack-of-development and crappy design choices-level of bad.
But try telling that to the crowd of perpetual naysayers.

Well BFA have some crappy design choice level BUT only because Blizzard in the last expacs had this insane idea to remove past core system that were overall approved to re-inteoduce them in a shitty way.


Example

Legion Relic Slots that were Major Glyph but worse since it were just an extra trait that had to be farmed again if you changed.

Legion Nether Crucible that was Reforging but the retard version " imagine getting a piece that is bad but reforge make it bis? Bad idea, better make a BiS item becoming a garbage because you get trash NLC traits "

While BFA removed Tier Set, Artifact, Leggo ( so previous core system ) and reintroduced it as Azerite System fucking it up again.

We shifted from farming AP to unlock new trusts to farming AP to unlock the same traits you already have but on a new piece.




At least Ion interview seems to have showed us that they got the majority of people tips about core systems

" Don't fucking touch them, add other stuff but leave the previous stuff "

[Queen of Hamsters]

-Playstyle: Everyone mentions to GcD. Considering how all of your more important skills are OGcD, I never could take this argument seriously.
-Art: It ages well, cause the game rarely returns to old zones. TBC zones bleed your eyes now.
-Story: You have interesting tastes
-Armory system: Again, nothing is forcing you to not make alts. You totally can. Nobody is forcing you to use the armory system for anything beside professions. It's about choices.

- Playstyle: So anyone giving non-positive feedback, you dismiss on account of "can't take it seriously"...? Well then, that seems like a non-way of arguing things. It's not difficult, FFXIV plays in a way that might attract people, or put them off. It's not objectively superior as a game.

- Art: I don't see not returning to old zones as a good thing. Returning to old zones is kind of a big part of enjoying the leveling process to me. I'd rather old zones are visually updated than forgotten. But that's besides the point, WoW's art style ages well because it's so cartoony, and the newer content is far removed from old in terms of HD design. Will FFXIV age that well?

Story: I have tastes, same as anyone else, entirely subjective. Sorry, but anyone trying to argue that FFXIV's story is objectively superior, is being intellectually dishonest based on nothing but personal feels and inability to realize the concept of different strokes.

- Armory system: Realistically, how many people do play many alts in FFXIV though? I have doublettes of certain classes in WoW but they're never the same race combo because I can pick and choose between a huge amount of races to perfectly encompass my vision of a character.

[Eleccybubb]

Well BFA have some crappy design choice level BUT only because Blizzard in the last expacs had this insane idea to remove past core system that were overall approved to re-inteoduce them in a shitty way.


Example

Legion Relic Slots that were Major Glyph but worse since it were just an extra trait that had to be farmed again if you changed.

Legion Nether Crucible that was Reforging but the retard version " imagine getting a piece that is bad but reforge make it bis? Bad idea, better make a BiS item becoming a garbage because you get trash NLC traits "

At least Ion interview seems to have showed us that they got the majority of people tips about core systems

" Don't fucking touch them, add other stuff but leave the previous stuff "

Ion doesn't get the community though. He's been saying this ever since he took over and the game proceeded to double down on timegating, scummy and rng metrics.

It's just his usual lawyerspeak to pretend he actually interacts and gives a damn about the community and it's sad. I mean in recent interviews he's literally subtlety blaming the players for the games issues.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Well BFA have some crappy design choice level BUT only because Blizzard in the last expacs had this insane idea to remove past core system that were overall approved to re-inteoduce them in a shitty way.


Example

Legion Relic Slots that were Major Glyph but worse since it were just an extra trait that had to be farmed again if you changed.

Legion Nether Crucible that was Reforging but the retard version " imagine getting a piece that is bad but reforge make it bis? Bad idea, better make a BiS item becoming a garbage because you get trash NLC traits "

At least Ion interview seems to have showed us that they got the majority of people tips about core systems

" Don't fucking touch them, add other stuff but leave the previous stuff "

Yeah, I am going to place hope in Ion's realization there and hope that they'll stop making popular features entirely expansion-wide just to avoid balancing issues down the line.

Hope, not confidence. And I'm hoping they'll bring back some liked features from the past and scrap those that didn't work in the present, rather than attempting to reinvent the wheels again in 9.0.

[Daikoku]

Yeah, I am going to place hope in Ion's realization there and hope that they'll stop making popular features entirely expansion-wide just to avoid balancing issues down the line.

Hope, not confidence. And I'm hoping they'll bring back some liked features from the past and scrap those that didn't work in the present, rather than attempting to reinvent the wheels again in 9.0.

Unfortunately it is the only plausible way.

If they don't backup or do a 180° with 8.2 I don't see a bright future for 9.0, even if I am ok to play both classic and live until 9.0.

[Hyral]

-Playstyle: Everyone mentions to GcD. Considering how all of your more important skills are OGcD, I never could take this argument seriously.
-Art: It ages well, cause the game rarely returns to old zones. TBC zones bleed your eyes now.
-Story: You have interesting tastes
-Armory system: Again, nothing is forcing you to not make alts. You totally can. Nobody is forcing you to use the armory system for anything beside professions. It's about choices.

I read that OGCD argument and unlike most people I did force myself to be bored for a while until I got a few OGCD abilities. Tried Bard since I heard they get plenty of OGCD abilities in their songs and some range attacks and even tried Puglist to make the combat a little faster and closer to WoW thanks to their greased lightning. And it's still dreadfully slow in comparison to pre-BfA GCD changes. Not to mention making the argument of "I know you don't like it but if you go through hours of something boring maybe you'll like it after that!" is really bad. XIV's combat is just not very fun for a lot of people who are used to faster pace, specially when the beginning is even slower.

As for Art, you can't tell people why a game's Art is better than another. That's something entirely subjective. You may think BC zones make your eyes bleed while someone else might think they are some of the best zones ever made as places like Shadowmoon, Zangar and Nagrand really make you feel like you are in some fantasy alien world that literally exploded and came crashing together. The design of Outland is superb for what it is trying to convey.

Another thing that's super subjective is the story. I personally loved as far as I got. It starts as typical FF fantasy with crystals and summons and then suddenly turns into political machinations and world building. It reminds me of going from the original Star Wars films to the prequels. It's not hard to see why a lot of people hate it and why a lot love it.

And this is the opinion of someone who loves FFXIV. I played the shit out of that game, I loved the crafting and the story, loved spending time in the Gold Saucer and collecting Triple Triad cards and the dungeons were at least pretty, and with the super slow gameplay I could actually just look around while pressing a button every 2 and a half seconds . Game's great, but not for everyone at all, and much less objectively better than WoW that literally only focuses on combat gameplay and comes ahead of XIV for most people because of that.

Also Gaius literally did nothing wrong.

[MrLachyG]

I think islands are ok as is..what do you expect here? its just a small 3 man activity and works like the old scenarios from the mop era, at least you can farm coins here.

Warfronts will hopefully get their hc mode......so they actually have some gameplay. Well, i hope they do it in 8.2 and not delay this any further.

Some class changes are also expected as there will be active traits not just passives.

8.2. will definately be an improvement over 8.1.5. wonder just how much and how horrible the gating will be.

So far i am really offended by the gating in BfA, seems just an excuse for an unfinished beta product and not a natural mmo progression mechanic.(too much gating, is too much)

well the only real gating has been the rep requirements for either allied races or the war campaign. which has happened with most expacs over the years. none of the quests have really been gated - nothing like last expac where we had to wait for a new week to unlock a new bit of the questline

[Hyral]

Yeah, I am going to place hope in Ion's realization there and hope that they'll stop making popular features entirely expansion-wide just to avoid balancing issues down the line.

Hope, not confidence. And I'm hoping they'll bring back some liked features from the past and scrap those that didn't work in the present, rather than attempting to reinvent the wheels again in 9.0.

If Legion is any indication they are capable of doing that, fixing everything that's wrong with an expac over time. What they seem to be incapable of is carrying over those fixes to the next expac. They always make the same mistakes over and over.

[Nachtigal]

Oh, I finally see what Blizzards plan is. Instead of having 1 year long content drought at END of expansion, have 1 year content drought at BEGINNING of expansion. Mother Russia is very proud.

Dear god, blacked out SUV’s just pulled into my driveway!

[Queen of Hamsters]

If Legion is any indication they are capable of doing that, fixing everything that's wrong with an expac over time. What they seem to be incapable of is carrying over those fixes to the next expac. They always make the same mistakes over and over.

Yeah, it'd be funny if it weren't so tragic with players caught in the middle of it all.
They get the feedback, they make changes, making an expansion end if not on a high note then at least way better than it was at the start.

Then it's as if they forgot everything moving into the next expansion, throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the mix in the hopes of something sticking, whilst being surprised that players aren't reacting well. Then they make the meaningful changes as a result of said feedback, and the cycle repeats.

MoP was an outlier, I always maintain that 5.2 was some of the best content the game has ever had.

[Wangming]

I read that OGCD argument and unlike most people I did force myself to be bored for a while until I got a few OGCD abilities. Tried Bard since I heard they get plenty of OGCD abilities in their songs and some range attacks and even tried Puglist to make the combat a little faster and closer to WoW thanks to their greased lightning. And it's still dreadfully slow in comparison to pre-BfA GCD changes. Not to mention making the argument of "I know you don't like it but if you go through hours of something boring maybe you'll like it after that!" is really bad. XIV's combat is just not very fun for a lot of people who are used to faster pace, specially when the beginning is even slower.

Pre-BfA? What about now?

As for Art, you can't tell people why a game's Art is better than another. That's something entirely subjective. You may think BC zones make your eyes bleed while someone else might think they are some of the best zones ever made as places like Shadowmoon, Zangar and Nagrand really make you feel like you are in some fantasy alien world that literally exploded and came crashing together. The design of Outland is superb for what it is trying to convey.

It's a shame I can't access my old account. I could link that blog entry I did. The Outland zones really look like alien zones. And the relatively low number of zones in FFXIV is something I lament. But TBC zones have 2 dimensional shrubs and other things that make them look horrible compared to the more recent ones. Since the game rarely asks you to revisit old zones, it's easy to say the art ages well.

Another thing that's super subjective is the story. I personally loved as far as I got. It starts as typical FF fantasy with crystals and summons and then suddenly turns into political machinations and world building. It reminds me of going from the original Star Wars films to the prequels. It's not hard to see why a lot of people hate it and why a lot love it.

Actually WoW is closer to the prequels. It is an incoherent mess that keeps contradicting itself. I can see people not liking the story, but I have a harder time imagining people actually preferring the wow story. Just compare Alphinaud to Anduin.

And this is the opinion of someone who loves FFXIV. I played the shit out of that game, I loved the crafting and the story, loved spending time in the Gold Saucer and collecting Triple Triad cards and the dungeons were at least pretty, and with the super slow gameplay I could actually just look around while pressing a button every 2 and a half seconds . Game's great, but not for everyone at all, and much less objectively better than WoW that literally only focuses on combat gameplay and comes ahead of XIV for most people because of that.

Also Gaius literally did nothing wrong.

Funny you mention that. It's actually how I feel while playing a druid. When I was in the Beta or the 8.1 PTR I stopped using Moonkin form in the hopes that I would actually be invested in the combat somewhat. Nope. Still boring AF with no actual interesting mechanics, and healing spells that make you practically immortal if non of your enemies is an elite.

[ravenmoon]

Well BFA have some crappy design choice level BUT only because Blizzard in the last expacs had this insane idea to remove past core system that were overall approved to re-inteoduce them in a shitty way.


Example

Legion Relic Slots that were Major Glyph but worse since it were just an extra trait that had to be farmed again if you changed.

Legion Nether Crucible that was Reforging but the retard version " imagine getting a piece that is bad but reforge make it bis? Bad idea, better make a BiS item becoming a garbage because you get trash NLC traits "

While BFA removed Tier Set, Artifact, Leggo ( so previous core system ) and reintroduced it as Azerite System fucking it up again.

We shifted from farming AP to unlock new trusts to farming AP to unlock the same traits you already have but on a new piece.




At least Ion interview seems to have showed us that they got the majority of people tips about core systems

" Don't fucking touch them, add other stuff but leave the previous stuff "

That's not how I viewed them at all.

Legion relics: Gave an exciting extra ability to weapon upgrade, it was more than just a pure damage boost, but you had traits that could be boosted and the combo changed your playstyle - miles better than a cosmetic weaponuograde that only offered linear dos boost.

Nether light crucible was adding further progression to the weapon tree, by adding a 3rd tier, so the new things you had to look forward to didnt die with 7.0, but you get a new set of traits to work towards in 7.2, and yet again another way of diversifying, it ended up making end game progression by far the most interesting it's ever been in warcraft.

How you can compare reforging which was a tedious and boring variation of secondary stats (that haven't changed) on all your pieces of gear that was no form of progression to nether light crucible is beyond me. They're not even in the same league and you go on to call it worse... well it's no wonder, if you thought it was meant to be reforging

[Daikoku]

If Legion is any indication they are capable of doing that, fixing everything that's wrong with an expac over time. What they seem to be incapable of is carrying over those fixes to the next expac. They always make the same mistakes over and over.

I can't even find a monetisation reason behind this.

It isn't something you see and say " ah well they do this because you have to spend more irl money or stay subbed longer "

Tower Mage was a GOOD and healthy way to make people stay sub longer because a lot of people that usually don't really care about ALTs more than getting level cap and do something, were prone to do Tower Mage for the skin.


But in BFA? Only the respec cost " durr you have to farm multiple gear if you want to avoid cost " makes me thinking they did it on purpose to sell Tokens.

[dacoolist]

If we are diving into off topic at this point..

WoD literally had a MAJOR PATCH that added a SELFIE CAM with twitter integration

A MAJOR PATCH..

WoD was by far one of the worst times in the history of the game (other than that insane dip during Cata.. Cata was bad in some places for sure)

BfA is nothing compared to Leg unless you consider PVP.. PVP literally DIED in Legion literally it was totally ded fam.. At least they are pushing PVP more in BfA..

WoD was worse that Cata, and BfA was better than WoD to me so