Keep it real Blizzard!

[Kaver]

it shows that blizzard IS listening to us....not blizzard ARE listening to us, don't be a mouth breather

Blizzard = Multiple people = They

They ARE

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You haven't seen it yet. No one has.

Excuse me captain obvious. The description of 8.2 looks like an improvement to the game. I was just trying to be positive before being negative. I didn't imagine anyone being so anal about it :P

[Fluffernut]

Blizzard = Multiple people = They

They ARE

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I was just trying to be positive before giving them critique. It helps sometimes. But 8.2 also seems like an improvement based on the description. However, thank you for stating the obvious captain obvious.

Blizzard is a company whose name is a singular noun, "is" is the correct verb form - not "are". Regardless of how many people the company Blizzard employs, the company itself is a singular entity and uses a singular subject/verb agreement.

[Temp name]

Oh fuck yeah, grammar discussions! The reason I come to MMO-C

[Fluffernut]

Oh fuck yeah, grammar discussions! The reason I come to MMO-C

I am pleased as punch to have helped support your reason for coming here. You are most welcome.

[SirCowdog]

Or they'll go "LOL GTFO WITH THAT NONSENSE".

Like, they can be honest without telling you things you want to hear.

No, apparently they can't. Because we haven't seen it yet. Every time they screw up it gets spinned somehow. I don't know if it's Ion's lawyer background or pressure from the corporate suits or what. But this consistent avoidance of being straight with players needs to stop. All they had to do was say "There's no plans for a 4th spec." But he couldn't help themselves by giving a bullshit excuse for it.

I said "GTFO with that nonsense" because that's exactly what it was: Nonsense. It literally makes no sense. He used a straw man argument by creating a completely fabricated excuse instead of just being honest. And even if he WAS being completely honest about new players, that STILL isn't a valid argument. Rather than fixing or improving things for existing players, he's worrying about an ambiguous, phantom group of people that aren't even playing the game yet!

So yes, it's complete and utter BULLSHIT, and absolutely deserves to be called out. Making excuses for it, or blaming the players for being angry about this sort of thing, doesn't help the game in any way. So stop doing it!

[Fluffernut]

Says the dude who in the same quote corrects someones grammar... are you for real?
We know very little about 8.2 as it is. The speculations about 4th specs were entirely player fabricated rumors. I didn't think anyone took them seriously?

To be fair, he attempted to correct someone who was already correct.

The Polygon interview, I feel, shared quite a bit about 8.2 -we will find out so much more when data-mining can start.

[Lochton]

8.2 looks much better. It really shows that Blizzard are listening to us in some degree and are willing to put their own egos aside to please the players. Kudos to Blizzard. Good job!

However... they are still at times not being real with us. Just say it as it is. Stop making these small lies all the time or skewing the truth.. I don't understand why they keep doing this. The lastet example:

"There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. Another spec would add a lot more complications to someone learning the game."

It is completely fair that they wont add another spec for each class. However, it is so obvious that new players are not the main reason for why they wont. It is clearly because of the extra work it would require for e.g. balancing. And considering that balancing is one of the biggest reasons for complaints, I can understand where they are coming from. So why not just say it as it is. Why try to hide the truth behind bad excuses, especially when the real reason is completely legitimate. We are not stupid. The players are not stupid (.. okay some are).

I would love it if Blizzard just said:

"There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. There are too many crybabies in the game and balancing specs gives us enough trouble as it is. We won't add more specs just to deal with more of your bullshit!"

Just keep it real Blizzard. Tell us your real concerns and issues in relation to design choices. Don't keep us in the dark. Thanks.

You have to remember, WoW's playerbase has a lot of players who can't handle that Blizzard staff at times can (even lawfully) counter their arguments/complaints.

[Queen of Hamsters]

*snip*

All in all, it's pretty clear that telling the truth doesn't pass as such amongst the playerbase if the playerbase is hellbent on feeling a certain way.
Basically, the only way they'd pass as telling the truth would be to say exactly what everyone wants to hear, which to me sounds impossible. Until such a time, they'll be telling the truth to people agreeing with them, and "spewing BS" to people angry about something.

Time will tell if there's weight to the statements made or not.

[Kaver]

Says the dude who in the same quote corrects someones grammar... are you for real?
We know very little about 8.2 as it is. The speculations about 4th specs were entirely player fabricated rumors. I didn't think anyone took them seriously?

You're taking everything completely out of context.

1) He corrected me.

2) This thread is not about 8.2. I just gave Blizzard Kudos for trying to improve.

3) This thread is not about getting 4 specs.

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All in all, it's pretty clear that telling the truth doesn't pass as such amongst the playerbase if the playerbase is hellbent on feeling a certain way.
Basically, the only way they'd pass as telling the truth would be to say exactly what everyone wants to hear, which to me sounds impossible. Until such a time, they'll be telling the truth to people agreeing with them, and "spewing BS" to people angry about something.

Time will tell if there's weight to the statements made or not.

Blizzard's official reason:
"There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. Another spec would add a lot more complications to someone learning the game."

Real reason:
"There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. More specs would make the game more challenging to balance and result in more work for us. Also it might add a few more complications to someone learning the game."

[SirCowdog]

All in all, it's pretty clear that telling the truth doesn't pass as such amongst the playerbase if the playerbase is hellbent on feeling a certain way. .

And the reason why the playerbase feels that way is because they've been lied to so often that Blizzard announcements and interviews have lost almost all credibility!

If Blizzard wants to regain the trust of the playerbase they need to be honest, and they MUST follow through. Don't hype things up to the Nth degree then deliver something completely different. The entire gaming industry is guilty of this type of thing, but what makes Blizzard especially bad about is that they tend to completely ignore the feedback they get.

But whatever, like I said: The game is going to keep going downhill, and Blizzard is going to keep being dishonest as long as the sycophants and white knights keep making excuses for it.

[Nerovar]

Demon Hunters were already too much. They couldn't even come up with a third spec. The more classes we have, the more dumbed down they'll be.

[SirCowdog]

Also it might add a few more complications to someone learning the game."

Games being challenging is a bad thing?

This is a completely different topic, but one of the reasons WoW is in the crapper right now is because Blizzard is so damn afraid of making more parts of the game challenging. Which makes almost no sense considering the Mage Tower stuff was one of the most widely praised and enjoyed features of the game to date.

I get that catering to the lowest common denominator brings in more business, but removing all the challenge from the game just causes players to burn through everything too fast and get bored. And once players are bored, they leave.

[shadowmatrix]

Ironic because all the classes have been dumbed down and are basically the same.

Yeah because my fury warrior, demo lock, ele shaman, and BM hunter all feel just like my prot pally.

[Queen of Hamsters]

*snip*

Seeing things differently =/= being a "sycophant white knight", or even making excuses. The problem is just that some people are convinced that their own feels translate into facts.

Some choose to be Negative Nancies, others would rather be Positive Pollys.
The game's been "in the crapper" as long as I've been around according to the Negative Nancies. I outgrew my angst ridden mentality 13 years ago so I'll have hope rather than twist everything into the worst case scenario.

[schwank05]

Blizzard gets so much bullshit from the players in relation to balancing. So of course they wont add more specs as it would just mean more work for them. No need to use new players as an excuse :P

Which I never understood, I played Resto Druid from BC-WOD. I knew I would never be the tank healer, and I was fine with that I was a raid healer and I loved that because I not only had to keep 1 person alive I had to keep all 10 in our raid group alive. Just as I liked that there were MT and OT, I dabbled in DK tanking and loved being the got of AOE threat I saw no reason for a Warrior to need all these things just let them be the good boss tank.

I am all for certain specs shining at different times hell I see no reason that Warlock, Mage, Hunter, Rogue should not have all their specs be the top 12 DPS at all times after all that is all they are good for no reason they shouldn't be the best. I thought the game was perfect in Wrath for DK's where they could play any of the 3 specs they wanted to.

[Flurryfang]

The description of 8.2 looks pretty good. It at least shows that Blizzard are listening to us in some degree and are willing to put their own egos aside to please the players. Kudos to Blizzard for that.

However they are still making bad excuses and lying to us. The lastet example:

"There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. Another spec would add a lot more complications to someone learning the game."

Just say it as it is:

"There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. More specs would make the game more challenging to balance and result in more work for us. Also it might add a few more complications to someone learning the game."

Or even better:

"There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. There are too many crybabies in the game and balancing specs gives us enough trouble as it is. We won't add more specs just to deal with more of your bullshit!"

The point is: Just keep it real Blizzard. Tell us your truth. Don't keep us in the dark and come with whole "new player learning curve" bs. Thanks.

There are already 36 different specs in the game. No matter the reasoning why, it makes no fucking sense to add more specs, especially not 9 more O.o So they could have said that adding more specs would add to unicorn deaths on the planet and i would still take it as a valid response.

But yeah, saying that there are already enough specs in the game should be the right response.

Edit: Also, while it is not the only reason, i would not be surprised if they actually had feedback, that choosing a spec was a baffling task with so many choices and that it actually turned some people off.

[SirCowdog]

Seeing things differently =/= being a "sycophant white knight", or even making excuses. The problem is just that some people are convinced that their own feels translate into facts.

Some choose to be Negative Nancies, others would rather be Positive Pollys.
The game's been "in the crapper" as long as I've been around according to the Negative Nancies. I outgrew my angst ridden mentality 13 years ago so I'll have hope rather than twist everything into the worst case scenario.

There's a difference between people who just enjoy the game for what it is, and the people who glaze over everything that Blizzard fails on. Pointing out the flaws with the game and holding Blizzard accountable for their screw ups is not being a "negative nancy". Nor is it attempting to twist everything into a worst case scenario.

Trying to lump every person who criticizes Blizzard into a stereotype of being a "Negative Nancy" or an "angst ridden" person is bullshit. Blizzard is not perfect. They screw up, often times DESPITE passionate, well-informed players who consistently give good and valid feedback. Azerite armor is a great example of that. And yet Blizzard pushed it through anyway. And that's not even the first time something like it has happened. Blizzard CONSISTENTLY does this, then makes excuses or tries to lie about how bad it was.

I'm sorry, but if you don't see that then you're one of the people I'm talking about.

[Kaver]

Games being challenging is a bad thing?

This is a completely different topic, but one of the reasons WoW is in the crapper right now is because Blizzard is so damn afraid of making more parts of the game challenging. Which makes almost no sense considering the Mage Tower stuff was one of the most widely praised and enjoyed features of the game to date.

I get that catering to the lowest common denominator brings in more business, but removing all the challenge from the game just causes players to burn through everything too fast and get bored. And once players are bored, they leave.

I’m not saying that. You’re completely misunderstanding the point. Please read the OP to get the right context. This thread is not a discussion about difficulty.

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There are already 36 different specs in the game. No matter the reasoning why, it makes no fucking sense to add more specs, especially not 9 more O.o So they could have said that adding more specs would add to unicorn deaths on the planet and i would still take it as a valid response.

But yeah, saying that there are already enough specs in the game should be the right response.

Edit: Also, while it is not the only reason, i would not be surprised if they actually had feedback, that choosing a spec was a baffling task with so many choices and that it actually turned some people off.

That’s all I want: The right response.

I’m also not saying the point about the learning curve is a complete lie, but it is definitely not the main reason.

[arkanon]

Genuine question: How come people are already praising 8.2 when it didn't even hit the PTR yet? There is NO way to know if 8.2 is actually worth its salt or not at this point. Yet I see multiple threads pop up praising 8.2 and even comparing it to whole expansions.

I dont see anything even remotely impressive about 8.2. I dont think it addresses any of the core issues in a meaningful way, and it certainly doesnt do enough to undo the mistakes made that led to BfA

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To be fair, he attempted to correct someone who was already correct.

The Polygon interview, I feel, shared quite a bit about 8.2 -we will find out so much more when data-mining can start.

data mining*

[Queen of Hamsters]

There's a difference between people who just enjoy the game for what it is, and the people who glaze over everything that Blizzard fails on. Pointing out the flaws with the game and holding Blizzard accountable for their screw ups is not being a "negative nancy". Nor is it attempting to twist everything into a worst case scenario.

Trying to lump every person who criticizes Blizzard into a stereotype of being a "Negative Nancy" or an "angst ridden" person is bullshit. Blizzard is not perfect. They screw up, often times DESPITE passionate, well-informed players who consistently give good and valid feedback. Azerite armor is a great example of that. And yet Blizzard pushed it through anyway. And that's not even the first time something like it has happened. Blizzard CONSISTENTLY does this, then makes excuses or tries to lie about how bad it was.

I'm sorry, but if you don't see that then you're one of the people I'm talking about.

Well, as someone not currently enjoying the game for what it is and giving feedback every time I'm logged in, I'd be sincerely surprised to find myself in that group.
Yet here we are, with people constantly bringing said group up as soon as one dares to challenge their wholly negative world views.

As I said, they can be telling the truth 100%, and people wouldn't be interested if they disagree with what's being said.