BiS-list for every stage (release - Naxxramas)(all classes)

[Daikoku]

Ret-paladins, on the other hand, has no stats at all, which gives them a boost in healing. That on top of dealing crap DPS makes them utter useless in terms of raiding.

Nightfall Bot ? SoC can hit 2 time and SoR gives prolly 50% uptime

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Also why not TF on Rogue or War DPS ?

[pingowtf]

@lonely zergling
Thanks! Didn't know that.

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@Eazy
Yes, you can. But the issue being that you lack any healing on your gear, which is why an elemental is more helpful than an enhancement shaman. Also your mana pool would be super small.

By all means, do go for enhancement. I'm sure it's fun and that there are some guilds that will accept it.

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@Unholygrounded @Daikoku
Afaik TF isn't really that good for rogues while it's outrageously good for tanking warriors. Same goes for fury warriors. I'll have to do a check up on this.

[Daikoku]

I was watching 2 videos of Fury War with TF in BWL and 1200DPS ST is enough for me to give TF to them.


Rogue if i recall right were op with TF in pvp because blizzard fixed the rogue full cloth with spll dmg + tf that was OP in pve

[pingowtf]

Depending on the encounter you're referring to, I'd like to see some info backing up your statement.

I found some info regarding he subject here (https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...is_for_rogues/) and here (https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...ogues_and_not/).. Also https://itemization.github.io/all/we...ker-19019.html

It doesn't seem likely that a rogue would favour this sword pre-1.12, because of them not being interested in the fact the it has speed 1.9 and is mainhand only. The only purpose of TF would be that it's shiny orange. In 1.12 when it becomes 1H and it would possibly fit the offhand slot, there are plenty of items that are better than TF.

Sorry, TF is a no-go for a rogue.

...and either way, it is not likely that any master looter with the right mindset would ever give TF to a rogue instead of a warrior because of the overall tank TPS boost the raid would get with TF in hand.

[PavelGolub]

BiS is so difficult to achieve really its not that easy to get gear especially pre MC 95% of people will not be BiS before their first raid and some elitis idiots will be moaning that you cant take people without BiS to raid blah blah blah .. back in real classic people started MC and were FAR FAR from BiS.

BiS its really something that will ruin the game i think , vanila didnt have this elitis approach back then at least i didn't encounter it people with full Dungeon set were okay people with some greens were okay, people just wanted to raid and see it all together

[pingowtf]

I totally agree actually, but to think that anyone will relive that genuine feeling of setting their foot in Azeroth for the first time is utopia. That's not going to happen, unless you've been living under a rock the past 20 years.
Instead embrace the fact that it's more about doing everything that you missed out on back then, or play a prequel to what the youth are playing today.
WoW players simply are not the same as back then. Like you say, that elitist mindset was a rare thing back then. Today it's common and I try to make this for, what I believe is the majority, instead of trying to catch the attention of a minority.

A BiS-list may or may not spread the idea of that you have to collect pre-raid BiS before entering MC, but there's plenty of evidence showing that's definitely not needed. MC and Onyxia is all about control, no gear check at all - something I believe the majority will understand before the time comes.

[Atherions]

Getting pre raid BIS is not the hard part, unless you go after low drop chance dungeon epics. Getting BIS raid gear can take years if you are low on the prio list

[PavelGolub]

Getting pre raid BIS is not the hard part, unless you go after low drop chance dungeon epics. Getting BIS raid gear can take years if you are low on the prio list

I agree with you it is possible if you are lucky enough, the issue is that its really not that necessary and especially raid gear you use what you can put your hands on its not like now that you have 7 epic legs and you need to chose one. You are lucky if you got your t1 legs and shouldn't fight for some random drop of legs item that is so called BiS , normally its like 10 dmg difference.
So you dont need to like kill each other if you got t1 and then somone got the so called BIS legs .. it dosent really change a thing.

The game used to be more about community and progress as a guild than me myself and my BIS mentality.


The pre raid thought you can get it but its purely grind for the grind and its so unnecessary and i feel like new players that never played will think its a must because of this different mind set of people now.

[MrExcelion]

Just out of curiosity, what's the highest theoretical possible DPS spec with full Naxx BiS? Taking a random stab at it, something with Atiesh maybe, so a handful of Fire Mages (ignite rolling etc) using Atiesh? Or something else with Atiesh? Or something else totally? Can you stack 2 Atiesh crit auras in the same party?

Already will be a bunch of mages in general already, but the prospect of an Atiesh in the long run would be nice to look forward to. Though it's hard to say what the future of Classic WoW holds that far in advance in a fully matured scenario, if they'll really just keep things as is and guilds wanting to keep raiding with full BiS for years and years (boosters will at least). Probably will be some super guild out there though that poaches to achieve this more quickly. Poaching was always the fastest way to acquire legos, your fear wards, and 8 warrior tanks, etc.

[Oneer]

Just out of curiosity, what's the highest theoretical possible DPS spec with full Naxx BiS? Taking a random stab at it, something with Atiesh maybe, so a handful of Fire Mages (ignite rolling etc) using Atiesh? Or something else with Atiesh? Or something else totally? Can you stack 2 Atiesh crit auras in the same party?

Already will be a bunch of mages in general already, but the prospect of an Atiesh in the long run would be nice to look forward to. Though it's hard to say what the future of Classic WoW holds that far in advance in a fully matured scenario, if they'll really just keep things as is and guilds wanting to keep raiding with full BiS forever.

Without access to log data back from 2006 you've only got private server data to work with, it'll be two tiers as well since the mage who acquires the ignite stack against their parse will be significantly ahead of the rest who are effectively contributing to that one mages DPS. 1k DPS was banded about as high in naxx back in vanilla (live 2006, not PServer environment) so that + ignite DPS would be an educated guess until we get official Naxx launched.

[MrExcelion]

Yeah, I never played on a private server so just really hazy personal memory from forever ago. I just remember Fire being sick in Naxx, and actually having time to do Atiesh might push it further ahead (especially with the 10% worth of party crit from the aura, not that it'll be designated to the individual mage on logs but yeah)

1.12 still having rolling ignites is cool

[Kruschpak]

So I heard elemental shaman performs bad in raids as dps due to no mana reg and high amount of boss resistances and nature is not affected by curse of elements. Is there any way to work around this by getting lots of pots/runes and all the possible spellpenetration gear with eye of moam or should I rather stick to healing in 30/0/21 preferably in melee groups because no manatide?

[Daikoku]

So I heard elemental shaman performs bad in raids as dps due to no mana reg and high amount of boss resistances and nature is not affected by curse of elements. Is there any way to work around this by getting lots of pots/runes and all the possible spellpenetration gear with eye of moam or should I rather stick to healing in 30/0/21 preferably in melee groups because no manatide?

You will get OOM after 13 LB and Bosses until AQ have higher Nat Res than other schools then during AQ you will shine thx to redux resistance gear.


Vanilla isn't to Top Chart with the bis classes otherwise Live is there for the epeen is to have fun playing what you want.
If you play with your friends you will sure be able to do 5man as elemental or PvP where shammy ele hurts with their ele mastery and on demand burst.

In raid you can still be picked, if you have connection or in a non bleeding edge guild who stacks war rog lock to do bosses in 30sec.
But elemental isn't like feral DPS that got rediscovered months ago is will be still middle pack in PvE.


But this is the interesting thing in Vanilla, some classes were rock bottom for something ( like PvE ) but amazing in other ( like PvP ) like ele enah retri Boomie




Then there are rogues

[pingowtf]

@MrExcelion The ignites are even sicker now, trust me. I've played mage high-end in the latest set of private servers.
Think about this scenario: tanks TPS is crazy high now due to some genius introducing fury tanking and even with that going on the ignites catch up with the tank. The mages has to control it by all mages simultaneously casting a pyroblast to reset the ignite.
It's really fun and adds a bit edge to the fireball spamming.
Modern tryhard players: https://legacyplayers.com/
Browse for the mages on e.g. Patchwerk.

@Kruschpak @Daikoku elemental DPS is first best suited for AQ, since that's when the spell penetration gear is introduced. They are super mana inefficient, indeed, and do need to pop mana pots/runes on CD. Flirt with the local druids for some innervate or swap groups with a melee for mana tide... ;-) 13 LB may be exaggerating a wee bit though... :-P
The bosses in AQ has the same NR as any other bosses. The only bosses that has higher resistance against anything are the ones in MC (against fire) and Kel'Thuzad (against shadow and frost), with the immune bosses discounted. All bosses has a spell resistance against all schools at 75, meaning you need 50 if you have a Thunderfury tank in the raid (like you can see on my sheet).
Truth is that totems are more important than outputting a lot of DPS, most of the times. That is the main reason for making elementals viable. That and the fact that the gear also works towards the healing spells. Having a 1-2 elemental shamans and 3-5 resto shamans is what I like to raid with. Resto shamans in the melee groups with wind fury and elementals in the caster groups for threat reduction totems - warlocks has NO threat reduction in their high DPS specc (wow Vanilla in a nutshell, eh), and warlocks grits are crazy.
Point is that shamans are super valuable to a raid. Valuable enough to have a slacking DPS player. Not valuable enough to bring an enhancement though. That's silly. They deal less DMG than the tanks... :-D

Very true about the odd-speccs and PvP. OP at times.

[Malacrass]

@MrExcelion The ignites are even sicker now, trust me. I've played mage high-end in the latest set of private servers.
Think about this scenario: tanks TPS is crazy high now due to some genius introducing fury tanking and even with that going on the ignites catch up with the TPS. The mages has to control it by all maces simultaneously casting a pyroclast to reset the ignite.
It's really fun! ;-)

Don't know if you missed my post, but do you also have knowledge about PVP? As in BIS lists?

[pingowtf]

Sorry, I forgot to answer.

I have some knowledge, ye. But there's not that much to choose between tbh. It's generally going for R13 and over all high stamina items.
You should definitely go for engineering though. The usable-equipables are super useful, as well as the stun grenades.

[TheGuy]

why no green wands "of healing" for priests (in p1-2)?

[pingowtf]

Because they are pretty gimp before that patch. Nothing above 13-14 healing afaik.

[jakeic]

why no green wands "of healing" for priests (in p1-2)?

The green wands of healing were all nerfed not to long into vanilla, my brother's priest had a green wand that he found that had +30 healing on it, the best raiding option was +19 spell damage.

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Getting pre raid BIS is not the hard part, unless you go after low drop chance dungeon epics. Getting BIS raid gear can take years if you are low on the prio list

This is true. Among the many items I never saw drop in Vanilla were a drakefang tailsmen, an ashkandi, and a binding. Playing WoW during vanilla wasn't so much about BiS but mostly about best of what's available.

[pingowtf]

Actually, they boosted the spell dmg during 1.6 and 1.10. Before 1.6 it was around 13-14 healing, like I said. During 1.6-1.10 we're talking 30-35 healing. Post 1.10 back to 13-14 healing.