What was the point of hiring Christie Golden?

[Aucald]

I already made a comparison to E. L. James in another thread about Blizzard's writers recently, but hey, if it fits. 50 Shades of Grey was an NYT bestseller. And there's no power on earth that'd convince me that book or its author are even remotely good. Golden's NYT bestsellers came during the height of WoW's popularity. Consequently, there was a large amount of WoW fans wanting to buy them. Especially in regards of Rise of the Lich King, as Arthas was a fan favorite since TFT.

As for the general idea of bona fide authors, it seems to me Blizzard took only authors like Golden. Because WoW still suffers from terrible consistency, continuity and ever-shifting canon (and in regards to game in particular, also poor pacing), just like it always did.

"Good" is ultimately a subjective thing, after all - hence you have in this thread the majority of people mentioning their personal favorite authors. I also think "50 Shades" is hot garbage but that's just my subjective take on it - I can't empirically say E.L. James is a terrible author because she's not, her novels are extremely popular with high sales and a ton of fans: how else exactly do you define success for any given author? Same with Christie Golden, really; she's not my favorite author but she's been successful, she's a popular author with many laurels to her name, and she's got a preexisting relationship with Blizzard.

Attempts of have been made of late to try to shore up the Warcraft universe's canon and finally give it a more or less consistent time with the "Chronicle" series. Golden and her peers are another attempt to try to whip the story into shape to make it a centerpiece of the game going forward.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

She's writing the in game cinematics. She's been at Blizzard since production was well in development. You can go to her twitter yourself and see her talking about her pride in all the million Jaina cinematics she has written, as well as a few others, incluing Old Soldier/Lost Honor.

She and others have also said she didn’t work on things like the warbringers at all, bra’s starting story was set before she started working on stuff in house.

[Mehrunes]

They plan ahead in broad strokes but sometimes the specifics can even change as late as PTR/beta builds. They have a general plan, but things can be influenced later on too.

Prime example being WoD where they abandoned the entire second content tier, some of which was already worked on.

The story has been more consistent and impactful. Whether you like that impact or not, it's impossible to say she hasn't "made her mark on the story."

More consistent how?

Don't know how much she's to blame for the state of the story and all, but I'd prefer she didn't write stuff where Horde's story intersects with Alliance's, with her obvious favorites and agenda pushing. If she's passionate about Jaina, Our treasure or whatever, let her do that, I don't care, but if I've rolled Horde for the exact reason to avoid those, then allow me to do it.

But why wouldn't you want Our Treasure's influence on the Horde's stories? It can only be a positive influence.

Why do so many people try to paint Golden as WoW's SJW Boogie(wo)man?

Sometimes I'm not a fan of some of her ideas and storylines, but really she just does what they tell her to write about. And Blizzard is always allowed to ask her to changer her stories whenever they please.

I really doubt Blizzard made her write on her own Twitter about how Anduin and (IIRC) Baine are paragons of non-toxic masculinity.

"Good" is ultimately a subjective thing, after all - hence you have in this thread the majority of people mentioning their personal favorite authors. I also think "50 Shades" is hot garbage but that's just my subjective take on it - I can't empirically say E.L. James is a terrible author because she's not, her novels are extremely popular with high sales and a ton of fans: how else exactly do you define success for any given author? Same with Christie Golden, really; she's not my favorite author but she's been successful, she's a popular author with many laurels to her name, and she's got a preexisting relationship with Blizzard.

Why should I be defining success when we're talking about writers' skills instead? E. L. James is a lazy hack who couldn't even bother doing the most basic research on the main theme of her godawful books and consequently got mountain of flack from BDSM communities for misrepresenting the lifestyle beyond recognition. Her lack of understanding of the topic due to being a hack was so severe that she accidentally ended up with a story where the main character gets raped by Grey, while the book was marketed as empowering and exploring of female sexuality. Does that say quality to you? Her finding a target audience among bored middle-aged housewives that were equally as clueless on the topic as her is irrelevant to that tangent.

Attempts of have been made of late to try to shore up the Warcraft universe's canon and finally give it a more or less consistent time with the "Chronicle" series. Golden and her peers are another attempt to try to whip the story into shape to make it a centerpiece of the game going forward.

And as with anything Blizzard, those attempts were at the very best half-assed and the desired outcome (and I seriously doubt putting an end to their endless retcons was one as they love those too much) did not follow.

[Adoxe]

We are yet to see her influence outside of some in-game cutscenes in BfA. Blizzard does expansions 2 in advance, the only thing she has had a massive part in so far was the Legion epilogue cinematics and Before the Storm novel, and minor assistance with dialogue throughout, but all the massive story points have already been done before she was hired.

[Hubbl3]

"Good" is ultimately a subjective thing, after all - hence you have in this thread the majority of people mentioning their personal favorite authors. I also think "50 Shades" is hot garbage but that's just my subjective take on it - I can't empirically say E.L. James is a terrible author because she's not, her novels are extremely popular with high sales and a ton of fans: how else exactly do you define success for any given author? Same with Christie Golden, really; she's not my favorite author but she's been successful, she's a popular author with many laurels to her name, and she's got a preexisting relationship with Blizzard.

Attempts of have been made of late to try to shore up the Warcraft universe's canon and finally give it a more or less consistent time with the "Chronicle" series. Golden and her peers are another attempt to try to whip the story into shape to make it a centerpiece of the game going forward.

You can objectively talk about the quality of anything. Quality doesn't mean success. Quality doesn't mean that you have to like it.

[Dagoth Ur]

But why wouldn't you want Our Treasure's influence on the Horde's stories? It can only be a positive influence.

I'm the wretch who still likes a pinch of toxic masculinity with my faction war! Where'll I go for the dose if Our treasure mesmerizes both sides?

[Mehrunes]

I'm the wretch who still likes a pinch of toxic masculinity with my faction war! Where'll I go for the dose if Our treasure mesmerizes both sides?

Where? To the compulsory Blanduinfication reeducation and indoctrination camp, of course.

[Grazrug]

The problem we have with Golden and the characters she has overseight on, is that specifically on the Horde side, is the idea, that you only can have identity on your own, or being a good boi character for your people, if you keep crawling into the butts of iconic alliance leading figures and betray the goals of your own faction at every step ahead towards the line. This value alone makes me sick to the core from a narrative perspective.

[Dylamoo]

She was supposed to be the one who salvaged the WoW story moving forward, however the story has arguably gotten much worse and more bland and predictable since her tenure at Blizzard. And she has been there for a while now, so she would more than able to leave her mark on the story by now.

So what was the point of hiring Christie Golden? Do you believe that she has another agenda that she is pushing?

I think your problem is in your question itself. Do you even know what she's doing for the story and lore team? What lore and story choices have so far impacted the game? She's said on her twitter and blizzard has stated several times that anything happening in WoW lore wise has been planned before she even arrived. Anything that will happen after this xpac will be hers. So to answer your question, it's too early to tell since the crappy lore was planned 2 years prior to her being involved.

[Powerogue]

More consistent how?

Focus on a united narrative since Legion which has been kept into BFA. Until relatively recently, the story has been about short narratives with almost nothing connecting them. Still interesting, but a total mess when attempting to read them together as one big story.

As an example of it in BFA, Jaina's arc this expansion, which extends all the way to Warcraft III.

Though I would accept some of the minor canonical differences between War of Thorns in-game and in the novels in the spots where they intersect as counter-evidence. For example not having a child night elf model, or the retreat from the barrier being less dramatic. They could do better with that sort of thing.

[Aucald]

You can objectively talk about the quality of anything. Quality doesn't mean success. Quality doesn't mean that you have to like it.

Liking and not liking things are entirely subjective distinctions, so you can't really talk about them objectively - well, at least not outside the objective fact of liking or not liking said thing as a statement of simple fact (which pretty much says nothing). I do agree that "quality" doesn't necessary mean success, either; but quality and success are two possible metrics by which an author is judged. Quality is by far the more subjective of the two, and success the more objective one. Both quality and success are needed metrics - we can debate the former all day long to no real conclusion, but the latter really isn't up for debate.

- - - Updated - - -

Why should I be defining success when we're talking about writers' skills instead? E. L. James is a lazy hack who couldn't even bother doing the most basic research on the main theme of her godawful books and consequently got mountain of flack from BDSM communities for misrepresenting the lifestyle beyond recognition. Her lack of understanding of the topic due to being a hack was so severe that she accidentally ended up with a story where the main character gets raped by Grey, while the book was marketed as empowering and exploring of female sexuality. Does that say quality to you? Her finding a target audience among bored middle-aged housewives that were equally as clueless on the topic as her is irrelevant to that tangent.

I defined both success and skill, and you were replying to me. Many people disagree with both of us as concerns E.L. James' skill at writing, and accuracy about the BDSM community isn't necessarily required for her completely fictional novel. Her skill is debatable, and if you're wanting to debate with me you're not going to get much in the way of pushback as I mostly agree that her storytelling is abysmal and her work vapid. But she's very successful, all the same - that can't really be debated at all.

[AngryTenko]

Hurrr durrr woman writer bad! Need big angry man story! Big angry man! I am small man, need story about big angry muscle orc to project into! Toxic masculinity good hahah afuck sjws? Why don't girl wanna touch my dick???

Infracted.

[Grazrug]

Yeah and BFA is Garrosh 2.0

Words of wisdom spoken. Expose the bad writing together.

[Combatbutler]

You're not very nice, are you?

Also, she was just doing what should've been done from the start. Werewolves without tails is stupid as hell.

Original Werewolves do not have a tail though.

[Minikin]

She was supposed to be the one who salvaged the WoW story moving forward, however the story has arguably gotten much worse and more bland and predictable since her tenure at Blizzard. And she has been there for a while now, so she would more than able to leave her mark on the story by now.

So what was the point of hiring Christie Golden? Do you believe that she has another agenda that she is pushing?

it is easy to blame Golden.

However the fault lies at faction war based stories. It is nigh impossible in a subscription based game to have a faction war story that supports both sides. Since there will never be a clear victor, there will always be one side ending up as nice but weak willed, and the other as strong willed but evil.

If you take out the faction war and dont listen to the bias loud mouths, the general game story is not so bad, especially given when and how it was established compared to what else is out there in this genre of gaming.

[Kumorii]

Hurrr durrr woman writer bad! Need big angry man story! Big angry man! I am small man, need story about big angry muscle orc to project into! Toxic masculinity good hahah afuck sjws? Why don't girl wanna touch my dick???

Is this sarahs alt acc?

[Minikin]

Why must the wow community find someone to pour hate into, hate the game, not the game makers, sheesh.

its interesting that when most of these guys critique her it generally orbits the idiot filled planet of "WELL SHE DOESNT LIKE MY FACTION SO F HER".

i mean heck they talk as if they are some great God gifted writing genius, while someone actually employed by another company is absolutely crap.

[Grazrug]

it is easy to blame Golden.

However the fault lies at faction war based stories. It is nigh impossible in a subscription based game to have a faction war story that supports both sides. Since there will never be a clear victor, there will always be one side ending up as nice but weak willed, and the other as strong willed but evil.

If you take out the faction war and dont listen to the bias loud mouths, the general game story is not so bad, especially given when and how it was established compared to what else is out there in this genre of gaming.

Wrong. So far it goes like this Alliance good, Horde bad(minus Baine). Blizzard has done a tremendous job, at sucking the fun of all Horde related story, by making their players feel like crap on each step of the way. But we are supposed to root for those, who betray us to their alliance buddies instead, This plot is biased and one sided from each perspective. This topic from the US Forums covers it the best.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...pc-shame-tally

[Zaktar]

Is this sarahs alt acc?

The only alternative is a literal clone, with some kind of synaptic copy technology in use.

[Shampro]

Wrong. So far it goes like this Alliance good, Horde bad(minus Baine). Blizzard has done a tremendous job at sucking the fun of all Horde related story, by making their players feel like crap on each step of the way. But we are supposed to root for those who betray us to their alliance buddies instead, Tgis plot is biased and one sided from each perspective. This topic from the US Forums covers it the best.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ally/49988/325

Remember when the BFA cinematic was unvailed back in 2017? Good times. What a fucking joke man, they really got some poor suckers with that one. No one would'a thought that they'd be moronic enough to basically copy-paste a story arc from 2 expansion prior after *that* cinematic. It's mind buggling.