Raider.IO exists because...

[tclphz]

If your rio-score doesn't reflect your skill level, it just means that you're lazy.

Why would you try hard to get higher .io score when you can just come to the forums to whine about .io?

[Charge me Doctor]

A m+ run takes 15-20 mins if its in time up until higher keys (15+). You make it seem like a run takes 2 hours Which they dont.

In case of kids - they may crave for attention in these 15-20 mins windows. It's not some sort of music box in fnaf that you can wind up and forget for 20 minutes. I do play with people with kids, but they usually rotate between runs, so there is always one person who is watching the kid, but these things do happen.

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No, you don't play TEAM online games if you have to afk every 10 mins... It's just common sense, there are tons of single player activities in WOW. And you don't leave a toddler unguarded unless you're a bad parent, are you a bad parent ?

It's a mmorpg, not some sort of RTS tournament (even those allow pause), what the hell. There is nothing wrong or bad in allowing players to pause their M+ run, literally 0 downsides to that. Sometimes various shit happens, no one is safe from that, your PC may bsod, your cat may catch a fire, you may get a police at your door, you may spill drink all over your keyboard, i hope you get it already.

And in case of it being 5 pre-made players, not just randoms from matchmaking system (i consider LFD to be a MM system as well, since you have no clue of what you are getting in your team) it doesn't matter squared.

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You are right. He is not the norm.

Neither are you. People WHO dont have 15-20 mins straight uninterrupted usually dont push 15+ or have an urge tó mythic raid. In fact, your situation is much more niche than his.

Again, stuff happens, and "afk protection" via pause would be nice, it won't hurt anybody, and will help people in these rare occasions of being interrupted during these "15-20 mins straight uninterrupted" periods

[Kaver]

Why would you try hard to get higher .io score when you can just come to the forums to whine about .io?

Exactly. People really know how to prioritize their time. Complaining is always much better than actually trying to get better.

[Alphatorg]

You can pause the game of dota or SC2 tho. So, yeah, there is that, it's not non sense.

And two seconds later your opponent unpauses. In-time M+ runs take a commitment of like 30-45 minutes, that really is not such a huge ask. I understand that for some people it's still a problem, but M+ is meant to be competitive endgame content and as such it can't be inclusive to every last player.
One might also say that having a pause feature would go against the entire point of an MMO and I don't even want to beegin to imagine what the anti-social and angry parts of the game's population would do with such a function.

[Charge me Doctor]

And two seconds later your opponent unpauses. In-time M+ runs take a commitment of like 30-45 minutes, that really is not such a huge ask. I understand that for some people it's still a problem, but M+ is meant to be competitive endgame content and as such it can't be inclusive to every last player.
One might also say that having a pause feature would go against the entire point of an MMO and I don't even want to beegin to imagine what the anti-social and angry parts of the game's population would do with such a function.

Or he doesn't. Again, having a pause option doesn't hurt anybody and actually helps in some cases, when you need to go afk during this commitment. If your pipe sprung a leak or you forgot to turn off your stove you will just sit there playing, instead of rushing to solve that problem, risking these precious 30 seconds or so of your timed run?

If M+ is meant to be competitive it shouldn't provide a MM tool like LFD and it should in fact provide a pause option, because that's how competitive games operate.

Speaking of "points of MMO" - this argument was also used against instanced content and exp/gear loss on death. How exactly pause function during instanced M+ timed run limited to just 5 players would go against the entire point of an MMO?

[vsb]

Weeks of darkshore/ivus, 385s from emissaries in all other slots (some WF/TF), 400+ neck. I think without any m+ or raids, my highest alt got to 391 or so.

That would take quite a while! I did not even reach revered with Magni, nor I ever saw any 385 ilvl emissary.

[Battlebeard]

It exists because I guess it's human nature to want to dominate others and show off their amazing accomplishments.

Raider.io is evil. It's a cancer to the game that is ruining WoW.

Some people judge others depending on what a number on a website says, and most people here support something like that. It's madness.

[PrimiOne]

More that a pause function a simple solution would be some safe zones scattered around the dungeon where the timer stops if every member of the group is inside it (and out of combat) that stops your cooldowns,buffs and debuffs too ( you entered with 85 sc left for you hero debuff to end....you leave the zone with 85 sc left) and prevents you from using any skill at all ( you can move.Period) .If you can not even guarantee 5 minutes of continuous gameplay there's nothing that can be done.

Now its obvious this community is not gonna find a consensus on anything past 1+1 = 2 ( and some people would ask for the numeric base of that operation) because no matter what you do there's consequences and some people would use the safe zones to behave like the classic asshole that makes 19 other people wait for 5 minutes because he wants to smoke 12 minutes after the raid started.

You gain something you lose something.

[tclphz]

That would take quite a while! I did not even reach revered with Magni, nor I ever saw any 385 ilvl emissary.

It's helpful to have mains for Champs reputation. So I can start with +45 I think on that, not sure when you get the bonus +10.

If you're leveling fresh, timewalking week is great, that I believe drops 335 and the weekly gives you a 370.

Grind out arathi/darkshore rares as soon as they're available to pick up 340/355. Bonus roll on Ivus and hope for luck.

If you're on the warfront side, do the warfronts.

Do every incursion for a 370 piece. Do every emissary for whatever drops (hopefully an upgrade). Keep working the ilvl up and improve the world drops and emissary drops.

Takes a lot of time, mostly waiting on emissaries to be favorable.

Can also do mythic0 runs for 370 and if it's dungeon week than a piece of 400. This requires playing with others though so breaks the solo rule.

[kamuimac]

It's helpful to have mains for Champs reputation. So I can start with +45 I think on that, not sure when you get the bonus +10.

If you're leveling fresh, timewalking week is great, that I believe drops 335 and the weekly gives you a 370.

Grind out arathi/darkshore rares as soon as they're available to pick up 340/355. Bonus roll on Ivus and hope for luck.

If you're on the warfront side, do the warfronts.

Do every incursion for a 370 piece. Do every emissary for whatever drops (hopefully an upgrade). Keep working the ilvl up and improve the world drops and emissary drops.

Takes a lot of time, mostly waiting on emissaries to be favorable.

Can also do mythic0 runs for 370 and if it's dungeon week than a piece of 400. This requires playing with others though so breaks the solo rule.

incursions drop 370 only if you toon is 361+ , and for 370 azerite your toon needs to be even higher. same with emmisaries - in order for them to be 385 you need to be 380 first.

the is 1 more place where you are wrong - TW drops 365 with reward being 385. but yes they are the best for initial earing as you can get 360+ itlv in 1 evening.

[neildown]

I believe one big aspect everyone forgets is that the score is not YOUR score but the group you were in - I could get a nice group of Ilevel 420's to run me through and get a ridiculous high score or I could be an amazing player (I wish) and run through lowbies just to finish and not bother about the time and get a crap score, by all means use Raider io as a rough guideline but dont treat it as gospel.

[quite an expert in wow]

In case of kids - they may crave for attention in these 15-20 mins windows. It's not some sort of music box in fnaf that you can wind up and forget for 20 minutes. I do play with people with kids, but they usually rotate between runs, so there is always one person who is watching the kid, but these things do happen.

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It's a mmorpg, not some sort of RTS tournament (even those allow pause), what the hell. There is nothing wrong or bad in allowing players to pause their M+ run, literally 0 downsides to that. Sometimes various shit happens, no one is safe from that, your PC may bsod, your cat may catch a fire, you may get a police at your door, you may spill drink all over your keyboard, i hope you get it already.

And in case of it being 5 pre-made players, not just randoms from matchmaking system (i consider LFD to be a MM system as well, since you have no clue of what you are getting in your team) it doesn't matter squared.

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Again, stuff happens, and "afk protection" via pause would be nice, it won't hurt anybody, and will help people in these rare occasions of being interrupted during these "15-20 mins straight uninterrupted" periods

m+ is literally about TIMING stuff, getting a pause defeats the purpose

maybe you should consider doing other stuff and paying will attention to your kids if you need to walk away every 15 minutes

[ydraw]

I mean, my alts not 390, but it's 389, never aided, never m+, never raided, maybe it's done some dungeons? I don't remember. Definitely no M+ dungeons. Only thing stopping me from 390 is a 355 ring (and 2 375 pieces)

Congratulations on making it to 389 nearly 3 months into the raid tier I guess. You'll never get to 400 this tier without doing dungeons and raids, you'd have to titanforge every piece of armor you are wearing in order to achieve that.

All these people claiming that there are thousands of people running around 400 ilvl will welfare warfront gear are quite simply liars. Sure it's easy to get to 400 - if you spam M+. But that doesn't fit with their narrative of the game being ruined by titanforging world quests and 1 free piece of 400 loot per month.

M+ is the real source of gear inflation, but the tryhards can't really argue against it without really admitting that what they hate is people getting gear that doesn't come from mythic raids.

[Kaver]

I don't understand: If you don't raid or do M+, then why do even care about your ilvl?

[Onikaroshi]

Raider.io exists because blizzard fucked the reward structure and now you can't tell if someone has done content based on the gear their wearing.

[Kralljin]

M+ is the real source of gear inflation

That is true but also ignores important aspects below M+.

At the bare minimum, WQ's also cause(d) gear inflation.
Before Legion, you just didn't get a useful item for your class by killing a random mob in the world, let alone multiple ones on a daily reset.

Of course does WQ loot lose a lot of value, but it still goes up to 360, so for any new character, it's a big stepping stone.
Similiarly you have Invasion and Emissaries that go up to 370 / 385.

Also, keep in mind that M+ technically starts at 375 already, there aren't just high keys, so M+ is also a source of loot to players within the "lower skill bracket".
Even if you're not doing a +10 key, you still get a weekly chest, which can award items starting from 380, afaik.

My point is, you already speed your way through the progression curve to point where you need +10 or heroic raids in order to get reliable upgrades.

400 is really only a barrier if you absolutely exclude Raids or any M+ higher than +7, but if you engange into those activities on some level, you'll also get 400 sooner or later.

But on the higher end of gearing, M+ is absolutely the source of Gear inflation, but even there still are other things, like personal loot or the massive amount of items you get from raiding compared to previous expansions.

[shyguybman]

Next time you reference a streamer, pick one that doesn't have half the vod muted.

what does this even mean

[f4ncybear]

what does this even mean

What this means is that I went to check what Fragnance said about m+ score and half his vod is muted because he is playing pop music.

[Frolk]

Raider.io exists because blizzard fucked the reward structure and now you can't tell if someone has done content based on the gear their wearing.

The LFR/normal "raiders" wanted same ilvl as mythic raiders, now they can get the same ilvl gear, but 1 is doing 20% dmg/hps of the other, so players had to get a way to sort em out, and now the baddies are upset, i love it.

[Onikaroshi]

The LFR/normal "raiders" wanted same ilvl as mythic raiders, now they can get the same ilvl gear, but 1 is doing 20% dmg/hps of the other, so players had to get a way to sort em out, and now the baddies are upset, i love it.

It's kind of funny when I can beat people on alt I finished leveling that day when they're decked out in like heroic level gear... lol... people are pretty bad.