The "anti-SJW" crusade against films: Has it actually accomplished anything?

[Theodarzna]

About anime ? That people pretend that there are no politics in anime does not mean ''politics'' don't exist there-politics is a swear word for ''stuff I don't like''.

Quite specifically, like 99% of Shonen protagonists, from the Gundam pilot who is the hero but so boring that I keep forgetting his name to Eren Y...EAGER (subtle…),the defining trait of Alita is to never back down from a fight despite the odds. While saying that she is a war criminal that essentially did a ''special attack'' on her vastly superior ennemies is probably over interpretation, that she exemplify ''Yamato daishi'' is not.

So you missed my point, thanks for trying at least. You did better than Endus.

[Yunaqt]

It's not about two blond blue eyed Waffen SS officers fisting each other and/or the actress wears more than a bikini.

Uh, well I guess that rules out most movies then.

[sarahtasher]

No, I say specifically that if the usual suspects don't see politics in anime (especially nineties anime, were plots were about nuclear holocausts as much as they are nowadays about loser falling in a world full of ladies with crippling back problems), that does not means ''politics'' does not exist. (Politics, beside, is a swear word for content people don't like. As most fantasy and science fiction includes a form of social commentary, it's impossible to have movies without politics. Even the most stupid movies ever, the Michael Bay Transformers, have a side plot about illegal immigration...of giant killbots)

ALITA being an excellent movie does not translate into being a good movie. It have the fundamental problem of lots of anime, that is that the visual franchise is not exactly matched by the plot. The plot is not worse than a very out there Marvel, but the pacing goes between horrible and horrendous.

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Uh, well I guess that rules out most movies then.

That was sarcasm.

[Slant]

When you use terms like "anti-X opposition" seriously, I think you're taking the whole emotional outrage bullshit a bit too far. I'll now establish the anti-SJW opposition opposition, just to spite the OP.

[sarahtasher]

Ghostbusters like I've been saying. Did an EA before EA did. By using the "don't like it, don't see it. And attacking potential movie goers. It didn't work for ghostbusters and it didn't work for bf5. Both these things could've been so easily side stepped. But Paul feig and Sony just couldn't let it go.

Again, for people who talk about ''suck up your feelings'' you are DAMN sensitive about this pretty basic comment. ''We are not making this movie just for you''. Holy Gee, talk about hateful comment-making a movie that people can understand without having read 1000 previous comics iterations !

[Lindon]

snip

C'mon, You're grasping at straws here.

You must see a difference between the amount of backlash Star Wars has gotten versus what Mad Max got. Mad Max was universally praised except for an extremely small group of people that got bloated due to media coverage. It was one blogpost of some random dude that advocated for the boycot of the movie if I'm not mistaken.

Star Wars is not universally praised. The ratings of the last two (especially the 8th) are extremely lackluster and most of the "hate" is focused on the weakest parts of the movies which coincidentally lie with its main characters Rey, Rose, Holdo and Finn. Those characters deserve whatever criticism they get thrown at them considering the abysmal writing that spawned them.
Just to add. I find Rose to be one of the worst characters ever invented in the Star Wars universe. She's at the same level of bad as Jar Jar Binks and basically ruins most of the scenes she is in. She is the bad kind of cringe.

The hate concering Captain Marvel is mainly focused on Brie's quite awkward (and a little hostile) statements pertaining the race and gender. This has most likely extended into people looking for flaws in the movie which then have made the headlines for some posts such as Brie can't act or whatever it now may be. Nowhere has it ever originated from the tropes you mentioned.

Wonder Woman actually did recieve backlash. some of the first thing that was ever talked about was that Gal Gadot's breasts were too small and that she didn't have the "right" body type. Granted most of this was pre-release.


Movies will get backlash if they are bad and/or underwhelming. Generally this has nothing to do with the characters not conforming to some type of trope (a miniscule amount may be).

[Endus]

C'mon, You're grasping at straws here.

You must see a difference between the amount of backlash Star Wars has gotten versus what Mad Max got. Mad Max was universally praised except for an extremely small group of people that got bloated due to media coverage. It was one blogpost of some random dude that advocated for the boycot of the movie if I'm not mistaken.

No, it was bigger than that. It's probably the first time this stuff really raised its head, that I can recall;

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-10249443.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/can...ights-critics/

Is it getting more prevalent? Sure. Is it because films warrant it? Really not. Ghostbusters 2016 deserved flak for being a lazy retread that ignored a lot of established canon (primarily, the scientific capture/study aspect, they went full-on kill-the-ghosts). Not for having an all-female cast. TLJ had issues, but it wasn't worse than Phantom Menace, and really, nearly every Star Wars film has major issues; they're pinnacles of special effects, not narrative. And so on.

Just to add. I find Rose to be one of the worst characters ever invented in the Star Wars universe. She's at the same level of bad as Jar Jar Binks and basically ruins most of the scenes she is in. She is the bad kind of cringe.

I can't grasp how on Earth you can hold that view.

Jar Jar Binks was an offensively racist caricature used for slapstick. Rose is . . . fine. I've never had anyone explain what the issue with her character is, and have it NOT boil down to nonsense. I'm not trying to claim she's the best character ever, but at worst, she's just kind of . . . eh.

[Ragedaug]

Which did just fine in theaters. And while The Last Jedi had some issues with pacing and narrative, for some reason, those bitching focus entirely on misrepresenting Rey, Rose, and Holdo.

This is beyond wrong and it's not even fair to call it simply reductive. You are just as disingenuous defending the movie as those who are disingenuously attacking movies like Captain Marvel.

Rey, Rose, and Holdo are bad characters, sure, but that's just a small part of the complaining about TLJ. The people who don't like it think it was a very bad movie. Most of the anger comes from Ryan "killing the past". or Ryan subverting our expectations because we were expecting good dialog, plot points, and story structure, and Ryan made sure to subvert that. I'm not making an argument on whether or not those complaints are correct, that would be another thread. I'm just saying, there is way more to the complaints over TLJ and they go way deeper than misrepresenting a few characters.

Disney got hit hard with TLJ (1.3B) as it way under performed TFA (2B), and it lead directly to Solo tanking. Considering Disney still has to recoup their 4B investment, that downward trend is a very bad sign. Disney didn't get hit as hard on Captain Marvel because the movie doesn't contain much SJW'ism. Most of the backlash was directed at Bree Larson's commentary outside of the movie. That said, if you put it side by side with Black Panther, which opened at a similar time of year, Panther doubled the domestic gross of Captain Marvel. So there will be speculation on how much Larson actually hurt their bottom line with her attacks.

[sarahtasher]

This is beyond wrong and it's not even fair to call it simply reductive. You are just as disingenuous defending the movie as those who are disingenuously attacking movies like Captain Marvel.

Rey, Rose, and Holdo are bad characters, sure, but that's just a small part of the complaining about TLJ. The people who don't like it think it was a very bad movie. Most of the anger comes from Ryan "killing the past". or Ryan subverting our expectations because we were expecting good dialog, plot points, and story structure, and Ryan made sure to subvert that. I'm not making an argument on whether or not those complaints are correct, that would be another thread. I'm just saying, there is way more to the complaints over TLJ and they go way deeper than misrepresenting a few characters.

Disney got hit hard with TLJ (1.3B) as it way under performed TFA (2B), and it lead directly to Solo tanking. Considering Disney still has to recoup their 4B investment, that downward trend is a very bad sign. Disney didn't get hit as hard on Captain Marvel because the movie doesn't contain much SJW'ism. Most of the backlash was directed at Bree Larson's commentary outside of the movie. That said, if you put it side by side with Black Panther, which opened at a similar time of year, Panther doubled the domestic gross of Captain Marvel. So there will be speculation on how much Larson actually hurt their bottom line with her attacks.

Dude, again, Star Wars is about facing blindingly obvious space Nazis. How are you supposed to make a movie that is not ''political'' about that ?

Oh, they tried in the EU. It was the Vong and people cried. Again.

[Ragedaug]

Dude, again, Star Wars is about facing blindingly obvious space Nazis. How are you supposed to make a movie that is not ''political'' about that ?

Oh, they tried in the EU. It was the Vong and people cried. Again.

Not sure what that has to do with any of the points I made. Can you help me understand?

[Charge me Doctor]

Sooo after you have said this, why do we do it in other part of society then?

We don't , but Brie actually wants this to be a thing with her ethnicity-targeted movies (aka, "this movie is not for white people"), and trying to undermine reviewers based on their skin colour.

[sarahtasher]

No, it was bigger than that. It's probably the first time this stuff really raised its head, that I can recall;

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-10249443.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/can...ights-critics/

Is it getting more prevalent? Sure. Is it because films warrant it? Really not. Ghostbusters 2016 deserved flak for being a lazy retread that ignored a lot of established canon (primarily, the scientific capture/study aspect, they went full-on kill-the-ghosts). Not for having an all-female cast. TLJ had issues, but it wasn't worse than Phantom Menace, and really, nearly every Star Wars film has major issues; they're pinnacles of special effects, not narrative. And so on.



I can't grasp how on Earth you can hold that view.

Jar Jar Binks was an offensively racist caricature used for slapstick. Rose is . . . fine. I've never had anyone explain what the issue with her character is, and have it NOT boil down to nonsense. I'm not trying to claim she's the best character ever, but at worst, she's just kind of . . . eh.

Presumably Rose is ugly because she looks like an aircraft mechanic and not like a supermodel paid to appear at a autoshow, like Cid in FFXV. (Which makes me again wonders if the usual suspects evert bothered to read SW comics : short of Erisa (Elisa ?) Dlarit the imperial mole, the ladies gravitating around Rogue Squadron were numerous and often relatively plain looking (it's hard to look sexy in a orange jumpsuit)

[Dextroden]

@Endus

How can you claim to understand why some movies get flak and then run to "they are irrational" when you get shown your logic is junk?

I don't recall Scarlett Johansen getting poor treatment for not wearing a skirt in any of her movies. Shit. I wonder where all this rage was for Lucy where a woman (GASP) becomes a being beyond all comprehension.

How weird how full of holes the misogyny angle is. Thank God for people who actually release movies instead of crying about imaginary overblown woman hate.

[Endus]

or Ryan subverting our expectations because we were expecting good dialog, plot points, and story structure, and Ryan made sure to subvert that.

When you make objectively ridiculous statements like that, you can't be taken seriously.

Disney didn't get hit as hard on Captain Marvel because the movie doesn't contain much SJW'ism.

"SJWism" isn't a thing.

It boils down to people being angry that female characters aren't sex objects or minority characters are prevalent and not villains. That's it.

That said, if you put it side by side with Black Panther, which opened at a similar time of year, Panther doubled the domestic gross of Captain Marvel. So there will be speculation on how much Larson actually hurt their bottom line with her attacks.

Captain Marvel is still in theaters.

Also, Black Panther was a huge success. Even if Captain Marvel doesn't top it, that doesn't mean it's a loss for Marvel.

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@Endus

How can you claim to understand why some movies get flak and then run to "they are irrational" when you get shown your logic is junk?

I don't recall Scarlett Johansen getting poor treatment for not wearing a skirt in any of her movies. Shit. I wonder where all this rage was for Lucy where a woman (GASP) becomes a being beyond all comprehension.

How weird how full of holes the misogyny angle is. Thank God for people who actually release movies instead of crying about imaginary overblown woman hate.

Fine.

You explain why these guys are brigading films because, in their own words, they're angry that blacks and women are headlining ("SJWs").

I agree that their reasoning is stupid and inconsistent. Not sure why you're blaming me for it.

Fair warning that if you try the "they just weren't good movies", I'm going to quote collected critic review scores to establish that they were not, qualitatively.

[Dextroden]

When you make objectively ridiculous statements like that, you can't be taken seriously.



"SJWism" isn't a thing.

It boils down to people being angry that female characters aren't sex objects or minority characters are prevalent and not villains. That's it.



Captain Marvel is still in theaters.

Also, Black Panther was a huge success. Even if Captain Marvel doesn't top it, that doesn't mean it's a loss for Marvel.

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Fine.

You explain why these guys are brigading films because, in their own words, they're angry that blacks and women are headlining ("SJWs").

I agree that their reasoning is stupid and inconsistent. Not sure why you're blaming me for it.

Oh, I'd love to see this Ghostbusters move. Show me the opinion piece based on five tweets. I want to see this. Especially since you keep saying they hate women leads and there seems to be zero heat over anything that wasn't Captain Marvel or Ghostbusters.

Now, tell me why they went with the misogyny defense if you admit Ghostbusters is dogshit. Is it because people like you are easy to spin up with buzzwords?

[Ragedaug]

When you make objectively ridiculous statements like that, you can't be taken seriously.

Meh, I'm used to you hand-waving my comments instead of trying to debunk what I've said, so I'm not bothered.

"SJWism" isn't a thing.

It boils down to people being angry that female characters aren't sex objects or minority characters are prevalent and not villains. That's it.

No one is angry that female characters aren't sex objects. Like statistically 0% of the people are bothered by that. Princess Leah is celebrated in Episodes 4 & 5; Ellen Ripley is no one's idea of a sex object, and Sarah Connor is one of the all time favorites of these same "white males", even though she is a main character and not portrayed as a sex object.

You have literally no evidence to support any of your assertions, yet again hand wave away all criticism without having any actual points to back yourself up with.

Captain Marvel is still in theaters.

Also, Black Panther was a huge success. Even if Captain Marvel doesn't top it, that doesn't mean it's a loss for Marvel.

So what? You think it's going to make another 300M? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you.

And I know Captain Marvel isn't a loss. What does that have to do with anything. You think they producers are still good with it losing 300M? I'm guessing they aren't particularly happy about it. Maybe they don't care about money though. Yeah, you are probably right. Disney's not too concerned with losing potential hundreds of millions in profits.

[Kaleredar]

So, since (a) no evidence exists to refute the notion that nobody cared about comments (above), then (b) nobody cared about comments (the first post and your entire thrust in the thread). Did I understand your statement right?

That's not how logic works, just so you know. Thanks for the illustration that our disagreement comes from you simply not knowing how logic works and where people put it.

We can assume the lack of appreciable effect on the film's performance is due to a lack of appreciable care.


As opposed to assuming the opposite, which is what you're doing; that the lack of appreciable effect on the films performance is... due to... actually people caring?

[Endus]

Oh, I'd love to see this Ghostbusters move. Show me the opinion piece based on five tweets. I want to see this. Especially since you keep saying they hate women leads and there seems to be zero heat over anything that wasn't Captain Marvel or Ghostbusters.

Now, tell me why they went with the misogyny defense if you admit Ghostbusters is dogshit. Is it because people like you are easy to spin up with buzzwords?

https://www.metacritic.com/movie/ghostbusters-2016

Metascore; 60.

That's meh. It's not "dogshit".

Other films around that score in 2016 (so we're not comparing to different eras) include Jason Bourne, Secret Life of Pets. This isn't "dogshit", it's "eh".

[Ragedaug]

Fine.

You explain why these guys are brigading films because, in their own words, they're angry that blacks and women are headlining ("SJWs").

I agree that their reasoning is stupid and inconsistent. Not sure why you're blaming me for it.

Fair warning that if you try the "they just weren't good movies", I'm going to quote collected critic review scores to establish that they were not, qualitatively.

They aren't angry at who's headlining. If that's the case no one likes Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley or the many other strong female leads in good movies. If that's the case, then Black Panther doesn't make 1.3B and Captain Marvel doesn't make 1B.

They are mad when people say, "your opinion doesn't count because you are an evil sis white male". When people provide criticism against a movie and people like you say "you are only saying that because you hate women and the blacks". That is what makes them upset and makes them want to brigade and boycott the movie.

[Endus]

And I know Captain Marvel isn't a loss. What does that have to do with anything. You think they producers are still good with it losing 300M? I'm guessing they aren't particularly happy about it. Maybe they don't care about money though. Yeah, you are probably right. Disney's not too concerned with losing potential hundreds of millions in profits.

It isn't "losing $300M".

That isn't how anything works.