WoW needs to go back to basics - Fun gameplay should be the #1 priority

[MiiiMiii]

When Blizzard looks at a piece of this game they need to go back to basics.

They need to, while making content, remove any rewards from doing them. They need to then make them so fun that people do it, even if it gives no rewards.

Then after you are at that point, you can start adding rewards.

Today, it seems to me that the rewards are what is supposed to make content "fun"? Look at the insane ilvl gained from the weekly Warfront quest. Look at the insane amout of AP from the weekly Island Expedition cap. Look at the daily world quest cache. Look at the Weekly M+ cache. Most people do the minimal amount of effort on these parts of the game, just to get the reward.

Would people still queue for Warfronts if it gave no rewards?
Would people still do Island Expeditions if it gave no rewards?
Would people still do world quests if it gave no rewards?
Would people still do LFR if it gave no rewards?
Would people quest if it gave no rewards?
I think the answer is fairly strongly no.
Exactly why the answer is no could differ from person to person. To me, I would not do any of those 5 things because they are brainless and unchallenging.

Here are some aspects of the game people WOULD do even if they gave no rewards:
Arenas - People that are already "rank 1" still queue because they love playing it.
Heroic/Mytic Raids - Guilds would still do raids where they got 0 loot, the reason they raid is primarily because it is fun to beat the bosses.
Random battlegrounds - Today you barely get any rewards for doing them, but they still are quite popular.
World PvP - Yes we get the bonus today, but World PvP was done with no reward since Vanilla.

Maybe, once you start looking at your system from this perspective, you could improve the game next expansion. Maybe then you would not add systems like Expedition Island and Warfront, where people never in a million years would enjoy them if they gave no rewards.

[Jibbler]

I think a big part of these activities not being fun is the classes. They've been so homogenized that nearly all of them are quite boring to play now. The class you play is how you interact with the content.

[Eleccybubb]

Won't happen.

Their priority is profit through timegating, rng and scummy metrics.

They will not go back to making an experience for the players when they can just keep people on a sub hook, rake in money from MTX and character services through allied races and other questionable stuff.

WoW is not a game for a fun experience where the devs care anymore.

[Cazz17]

Would people play the game if there was no rewards? Probably not. There has to be fun gameplay and incentive to actually play.

[Eleccybubb]

Would people play the game if there was no rewards? Probably not. There has to be fun gameplay and incentive to actually play.

I mean the current incentive isn't working either since people are leaving in masses for other games.

[cparle87]

Wow man. Your idea is so insanely the opposite of most of the people on these forums you're in a different galaxy. Most of the whine threads are complaining that the various tasks in the game aren't rewarding enough.

Add to the fact that fun is subjective. The last thing any company should do to find out what their player base finds fun is look at anything on any forums.

- - - Updated - - -

Won't happen.

Their priority is profit through timegating, rng and scummy metrics.

They will not go back to making an experience for the players when they can just keep people on a sub hook, rake in money from MTX and character services through allied races and other questionable stuff.

WoW is not a game for a fun experience where the devs care anymore.

You heard it here first, folks. If Eleccybubb doesn't like the game then it's totally obvious the devs don't care about the game anymore and just want to milk you, end of story, no nuance, nothing, and you're all idiots or white knights if you disagree.

[Yriel]

Heroic/Mytic Raids - Guilds would still do raids where they got 0 loot, the reason they raid is primarily because it is fun to beat the bosses.

Shitbull. No one would raid without rewards.

[sam86]

I think a big part of these activities not being fun is the classes. They've been so homogenized that nearly all of them are quite boring to play now. The class you play is how you interact with the content.

pretty much this
even in vanilla days where it was impossible to get to lvl 60 on more than 2 classes (unless u sell ur soul to devil or something), classes were still very unique gameplay
however the downside vanilla balance is a joke, druid is well known as worst pvp class during entire vanilla era, while rogues naked ganking and so on
so unless blizz remember that only way to balance 1v1 is by making both exact same spells and stop try to balance 1v1 or 2v2 or even 3v3, forget about it

[Feali]

Stop with the treadmills first of all.

Alting is a mess. Gearing is a mess. Azerite is a mess (albeit getting "fixed ((hopefully)) in 8.2).

[Greengrim]

I think a big part of these activities not being fun is the classes. They've been so homogenized that nearly all of them are quite boring to play now. The class you play is how you interact with the content.

I just have to agree with you. There have also been many threads going on about this issue. Classes are simply way too boring to play. Can't have fun with any PvP or PvE content if your class doesn't feel fun to play.

And it's not just classes themselves, in my opinion one of the biggest issues is the milenium-long global cooldown and the fact they put everything on it. Just these 2 changes took sooooo much from the dynamyc of the gameplay... it's disgusting ... I just don't know which "genious" came up with this idea, and which "genious2" accepted it. Combined with the lore development, I think it's safe to say Blizz have not done a great job.

BUT HEY, paying our subs is what matters most in the end, right? I think Blizz have been showing us this for a long while now. They don't care about the quality of the game, as long as they get to keep people subscribed. Simplyfying the game is what seems to work for them, so they will just deplete the (in my opinion) final resources that the gold mine called WoW has to offer.

[Eleccybubb]

Stop with the treadmills first of all.

Alting is a mess. Gearing is a mess. Azerite is a mess (albeit getting "fixed ((hopefully)) in 8.2).

It's not the treadmill that's bad per se.

It's that ActiBlizz have made a gear treadmill that is literally broken before you even turn it on.

When you get a 395 Titanforged piece from just doing 4 world quests and a 1 finale quest there is something wrong.

[Lawlhero]

Would people play the game if there was no rewards? Probably not. There has to be fun gameplay and incentive to actually play.

It really depends. One example I can give is the Suramar quest line. Even if there was no reward for that, I'd still play it because I actually enjoyed the story of them. I feel blizzard is so focused on making sure everything has rewards rather than making sure everything stands alone as actually being fun content.

[Laurathansal]

WoW is about rewards. Even back in Vanilla I'd never have done many of things I did like farming for Hide of the Wild, or the Tier 0.5 quest, If it didn't have a sweet reward at the end.

Do not underestimate it however. Rewarding makes things fun! When I think of WoW, I think of improving my character all the time, and that comes through reward, which makes even tedious takes entertaining because of the reward at the end. What ruined this was the homogenization of classes and gear, making so that there is no thought process anymore into gearing, and also there is no different ways to play classes anymore.

[roboscorcher]

There are 3 main reasons to play WoW:
1) fun gameplay
2) power progression
3) story progression

I think BfA has floundered in all 3 of these categories, compared to Legion.
1) I think classes are fine (personal opinion) but the new game modes are kind of hollow. War Mode was also frustrating when raidgroups started zerging everything down.
2) Artifacts are better progression, period. Permanent gains always feel better than temporary ones, even if everyone else gets them eventually. If they bring Artifacts back, they should offer permanent (for the expansion) talent-row unlocks. This would satisfy Ion's goal of still offering player choice during progression.
3) To be fair, beating Legion's story is nearly impossible. It was the end of Azeroth's largest enemy. However, going straight into faction war feels wrong and it seems like all the characters have forgotten who Garrosh was.

[Monolithi]

When you get a 395 Titanforged piece from just doing 4 world quests and a 1 finale quest there is something wrong.

Who would do those 4 WQs if there is no chance for TF? I certainly would not...
So no reason to login... go figure how decision about sub ends...

[matrix123mko]

You would free me of world quests. I play for the story, so I don't care about rewards.

[Beatman]

They need to overhaul the gearing system frist and foremost. There are way too many loot sources. Heroic quality gear is rewarded for LFR difficulty content. This, and the randomness created by titanforging, destroys the fun for a lot of people and leads to fundamental problems in group content.

WoW needs to go back to basics - Fun gameplay should be the #1 priority

And yes, I totally agree. Not only regarding the "fun gameplay" part, but other elements of past expansions as well.

[RobertMugabe]

I think a big part of these activities not being fun is the classes. They've been so homogenized that nearly all of them are quite boring to play now. The class you play is how you interact with the content.

Yeah class design and progression is all that matters in a game, especially in an MMORPG. Each time the class design has been an issue, the expansion overall was seen as bad (besides WoD, which had its own unique issue of simply not having a lot of content).

[Seranthor]

When Blizzard looks at a piece of this game they need to go back to basics.

They need to, while making content, remove any rewards from doing them. They need to then make them so fun that people do it, even if it gives no rewards.

Then after you are at that point, you can start adding rewards.

Today, it seems to me that the rewards are what is supposed to make content "fun"? Look at the insane ilvl gained from the weekly Warfront quest. Look at the insane amout of AP from the weekly Island Expedition cap. Look at the daily world quest cache. Look at the Weekly M+ cache. Most people do the minimal amount of effort on these parts of the game, just to get the reward.

Would people still queue for Warfronts if it gave no rewards?
Would people still do Island Expeditions if it gave no rewards?
Would people still do world quests if it gave no rewards?
Would people still do LFR if it gave no rewards?
Would people quest if it gave no rewards?
I think the answer is fairly strongly no.
Exactly why the answer is no could differ from person to person. To me, I would not do any of those 5 things because they are brainless and unchallenging.

Here are some aspects of the game people WOULD do even if they gave no rewards:
Arenas - People that are already "rank 1" still queue because they love playing it.
Heroic/Mytic Raids - Guilds would still do raids where they got 0 loot, the reason they raid is primarily because it is fun to beat the bosses.
Random battlegrounds - Today you barely get any rewards for doing them, but they still are quite popular.
World PvP - Yes we get the bonus today, but World PvP was done with no reward since Vanilla.

Maybe, once you start looking at your system from this perspective, you could improve the game next expansion. Maybe then you would not add systems like Expedition Island and Warfront, where people never in a million years would enjoy them if they gave no rewards.

So what, EXACTLY, is your solution? What I'm seeing here is heavy on the tears and gnashing of teeth, and really light on any solution.

[MHMabrito]

They need to then make them so fun that people do it, even if it gives no rewards

The main problem with posts like this, and your post - is that you're here to ask for FUN and REWARDING gameplay, but aren't able to actually put a finger on what is "fun". "Fun" is also very subjective, what is fun to you might not be fun to someone else - who do they side with? Whichever the majority side falls on. Which may not be your side. I raid hardcore in this game, I don't feel compelled to do any of the world content. When i'm not raiding i'm doing high m+'s qualifying for my region. Let's also not pretend that everything in this game hasn't been a long time gated style grind. Stretching all the way back to Vanilla, everything has been grindy. I'm not sure what world people have lived in when it comes to this game.

The notion that people would do content without rewards is wrong. That's demonstrated multiple times in multiple different expansions. People play for progression and bettering their character.