So mythic+

[Evelyn]

Oh look the "I hAvE A jOb" Jocker .... im 9/9M and i have 2,2k io guess what i have a job too, and no i dont tell you to get 2,8k (I seriously doubt that you get over 2k Judging by your comments here ) i tell you to get near the score you want to play, for +15 a min. score of 1,4k and so on.

I just saw someone with +18 SOTS with 1370 io rating and M 1/9. So how do you explain that? They must have been carried or?

Needing to have 1.4k io in order to do a 15 is you trying to gatekeep on what is acceptable or not.

[Rustykeyboard]

do keys around lvl 13s and add those u played with to ur friends list, just add those u think can push high keys.

[Pooti]

I don't assume it's one particular reason over another, that is why I often ask. Sometimes I get no response or someone who says they won't tell me why they wouldn't invite me. But just going by those who do give me answers - it's sometimes my io isn't high enough but more often it's because I haven't already completed a 15.

Why do people own me something? Typical elitist/apologist response. I expect difficulty in pugging and to come in contact with toxic player, but would like (emphasis on like) to be given a chance from time to time. If you are trying to progress and you point out that people often have extreme requirements, shall I say to you, what do think these people owe you? This is a way to dismiss valid gripes regarding this system and certain types who use it. I don't think someone owe's me a spot. I apply because I believe I can fulfill my role and be a benefit to my group. I'm tired of seeing people not pull their own weight or leave over the slightest thing. There's nothing wrong with me feeling that way. Did your feelings get hurt for you to reply to me with this nonsense.

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Oh look. Another person suggesting I shouldn't complain. You are being dishonest. It takes time and effort. Not everyone is casual by choice. Some people have jobs and children and school and don't have time to grind out io rating. Not to mention, there are others things in game to do. So in your mind, 1200 took no time and effort on my part, but if i just put some effort into raising my score to 2.8 or 3.5 (because that is easily obtainable for a casual, right?) then I can be considered good and get invited to normal groups. Do you listen to yourself?

Well, it all comes down to then, why not make your own group. If you do not like how other people are doing it, then do it better.

[Twdft]

You shouldn't have to do every dungeon at 14 in time to be able to do a 15 in time.

Did you skip 3 years in high school too? Skipping from +3 to +6 is easy, from +12 to +15 not so much.

Imagine you have a +15 key (boosted by guildies/friends the week before). Now you want to time that in a pug... do you really want to tell me that you would invite 4 other guys you don't know who only timed +12 before?

[RoKPaNda]

Make your own group. That's what I do. I couldn't even tell you what my raider io score is, or anyone else's for that matter. I've never used it.

[Evelyn]

Well, it all comes down to then, why not make your own group. If you do not like how other people are doing it, then do it better.

I do try to perform better than others at my level but also behave and act like an adult who respects that everyone is giving their time and energy to do a key. Just make your own group is another typical cop-out response. As it ignores the hardships of making your own group and trying to push keys, as I covered in my first post. It fails to address toxicity in mythic+. It's also silly to say do better than them when I am not in the position to be geared from mythic raiding and have friends from mythic raiding join me in a mythic+ run, so you can't just expect a casual mythic+ person do better than someone in that position when they don't have those advantages.

[Pooti]

I just saw someone with +18 SOTS with 1370 io rating and M 1/9. So how do you explain that? They must have been carried or?

Needing to have 1.4k io in order to do a 15 is you trying to gatekeep on what is acceptable or not.

Everybody deserves to have the right to use whatever metric they wish to use to gatekeep for THEIR GROUP.

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I do try to perform better than others at my level but also behave and act like an adult who respects that everyone is giving their time and energy to do a key. Just make your own group is another typical cop-out response. As it ignores the hardships of making your own group and trying to push keys, as I covered in my first post. It fails to address toxicity in mythic+. It's also silly to say do better than them when I am not in the position to be geared from mythic raiding and have friends from mythic raiding join me in a mythic+ run, so you can't just expect a casual mythic+ person do better than someone in that position when they don't have those advantages.

I say that being unwilling to make your own groups while practicing the group making principles that you preach is a cop-out. You have exactly the same power to make a group as anybody else.

By "do better" in the context of my statement, I obviously did not mean "play better". My statement was obviously not about performance. Do a better job of being inclusive when making your groups, and do not use toxic metrics like IO.

[Evelyn]

Did you skip 3 years in high school too? Skipping from +3 to +6 is easy, from +12 to +15 not so much.

Imagine you have a +15 key (boosted by guildies/friends the week before). Now you want to time that in a pug... do you really want to tell me that you would invite 4 other guys you don't know who only timed +12 before?

I have pushed keys after inviting people who had not even completed that dungeon on the key's level or even the previous level. They were within 2 levels completed and had a similar io and decent gear. I gave them a chance and we did fine. Other times I've invited people with higher io and equal or higher level done and they pulled mediocre dps, failed on mechanics and or rage quit.

We were never talking about skipping from a +12 to a +15. I said a ++13 or +14 to a 15. There is a difference there.

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Everybody deserves to have the right to use whatever metric they wish to use to gatekeep for THEIR GROUP.

I never said they weren't allowed to decide, but it doesn't mean I have no right to complain. We were talking about you gatekeeping what is and isn't acceptable. Actually, that was directed at feral druid ist op, but it applies to you as well.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

I just saw someone with +18 SOTS with 1370 io rating and M 1/9. So how do you explain that? They must have been carried or?

Needing to have 1.4k io in order to do a 15 is you trying to gatekeep on what is acceptable or not.

Are you trying to be funny? 3k io dudes can 4 man keys up to +19 the guys prob bought or got carryed by hes guild or you know did hes OWN Feaking key.

And its not "ME" gatekeepig you it is the standard given by the M+ Community and if you cant handle it then sorry but you wont get invited.

[Pooti]

I have pushed keys after inviting people who had not even completed that dungeon on the key's level or even the previous level. They were within 2 levels completed and had a similar io and decent gear. I gave them a chance and we did fine. Other times I've invited people with higher io and equal or higher level done and they pulled mediocre dps, failed on mechanics and or rage quit.

We were never talking about skipping from a +12 to a +15. I said a ++13 or +14 to a 15. There is a difference there.

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I never said they weren't allowed to decide, but it doesn't mean I have no right to complain. We were talking about you gatekeeping what is and isn't acceptable. Actually, that was directed at feral druid ist op, but it applies to you as well.

I would bet that your IO score is higher than mine, but I also am not so arrogant as to assume that I know better how other people should form their groups. It is totally ok for someone to not want me in the group they are making, for whatever reason they see fit.

[Deja Thoris]

Oh look the "I hAvE A jOb" Jocker .... im 9/9M and i have 2,2k io guess what i have a job too, and no i dont tell you to get 2,8k (I seriously doubt that you get over 2k Judging by your comments here ) i tell you to get near the score you want to play, for +15 a min. score of 1,4k and so on.

Your ingame skills are way ahead of your social ones.

confirm / deny?

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Your ingame skills are way ahead of your social ones.

confirm / deny?

Lol mate, i told OP how he/she can get ino groups He/she want and now im the antisocial? Hell i dont even pug Keys outside my splitraid alts +10 keys
Playing in a guild is more social than Pug let me tell you this .

[Raetary]

I don't recall ever seeing it or using it though. Always was asked for Ilvl

It wasn't as prominent in legion.

[Kaver]

Wow @ the first comments telling me 15 is too high for my io rating - that I am not good enough for a 15 and am expecting/wanting to be boosted/carried. That's bullcrap. This is the type of elitism that raider io spawns. I'm not saying I am amazing, but I got to the #2 spot for horde priest healers on my server group (of 6) alone by pugging, not being carried, so I do my job just fine and then some. That's not to say you must be carried if you have friends, I'm not saying that. I'd love to be in that situation but my guildies (who I occasionally heal for) are doing 5's and 7's and my real id friends are doing like 16-21. Save me the "raise your io" crap because it isn't the only indicator of skill and 1200 isn't bad for a casual.

To be fair, raider io doesn’t spawn elitsm. Raider io is just an information hub. A database. Elitsm has always been and will always be there, because good players don’t want to play with bad players. That’s just how the world works, in games and other areas.

[Mlz]

Anyways, so I invite higher io people for this other key I was trying to push

Why? Invite people with your score or lower to follow your own logic. Enjoy your runs.

[re1gn1te]

raider.io shows the highest key you've done. and if all you've done is a +20 TD I would assume you were carried and I wouldn't invite you

I'd just assume you got carried in that TD. Even if you had the rest at 15, I'd still assume that TD was a carry, since it's so far ahead of the others

That's not what I said. I said I only do TD's not I've only done ONE TD I could have lots of TD's ranging up from 10-20 but my score will still be 260 and I'd still be able to carry any 15 or 10 TD.

[shyguybman]

if you leave a m+ dungeon because you aren't going to time the key you are a straight up asshole

It's really annoying that raider.io effectively forces me to dungeons I not only dislike, but also need no loot from. I really want that TD trinket, but I can't just sit there and spam TD because if I don't have a good score on ALL of them I won't get invited to anything. It's pretty frustrating.

Agreed. I think if you add both seasons up I have ran Shrine 5 times because that dungeon is horrible and drops nothing I need.

[ID811717]

You shouldn't have to do every dungeon at 14 in time to be able to do a 15 in time.

No, you don't have to.

You don't need high io to be ready and able to do a timed run a single level higher than you have.

I agree. If you timed a +14 before, I might consider inviting you into a +15 for the same dungeon.

If you have done all the dungeons above 10, literally nothing changes as you go up except it is a bit harder each level and it really comes down to affix and what comp you want to run.

If a player has only timed all dungeons on +10 before, they are still oblivious to so many important mechanics in each of the dungeons. You gain a treasure trove of knowledge every time you progress 2-3 keys higher. You are forced to learn the mechanics that could be ignored and outhealed on lower keys.

Again, you are saying you wouldn't invite someone for a 15 TOS if they have double chested a 13 TOS?

I prefer someone who has timed at least a +14 before. It is possible that in +13 you took damage from double cyclone strike, took damage from Power Shot + Cleave, stood in Noxious Breath, and then clinched the kills on 3rd and 4th bosses with dry 0% mana remaining and entire group at 10% health. It is possible you failed on many other mechanics in +13, but survived them all and still 2-chested the key. It is possible that you are still not aware what are some of the deadly abilities in Temple. It is possible that the damage in +15 will get just over the top for your health pool, and you will start dying to each of these mechanics.

You're the definition of elitist.

You confuse elitism with some sort of meritocracy. All of the above applies to me as well. I will not apply for a hypothetical "+23 in time" pug on my main char if the highest I have timed in the dungeon is just +21. That would be hypocritical of me. Likewise, my experience in high keys on my main healer char does not make me entitled to sign up for medium level keys on my well-geared healer alts if I lack proper experience on these alts. Temple is actually a good example. How do I know I have enough mana for +15 tyrannical Temple bosses on an character that has healed a +13 Temple at best? How do you know that my alt won't run OOM in the middle of these boss fights if the highest experience I can show you on this alt is at best a timed +13 Temple?

[Evelyn]

Why? Invite people with your score or lower to follow your own logic.

I have. I said as much in the same paragraph you took a sentence out of and quoted. I've also invited higher io higher level people but there is no guarantee they are going to perform better than someone a level lower. It doesn't guarantee that they will not rage quit over the slightest thing. Which is why pushing your own key is easier said than done, especially for people who pug.

[ID811717]

I just saw someone with +18 SOTS with 1370 io rating and M 1/9. So how do you explain that? They must have been carried or?

It is the privilege of a key holder. Push your own key and you might end up in the same spot. That is why so many people here say that pushing your own key is the best way to get your score up. You take risks, you reap rewards (if any). Or you stick to being a healer for hire, and then you play by the common sense rules.

Note that this 1370 player will have 2k players applying for his +18 key. The fact this player is just 1370 does not mean he has (or will) invite other 1.4k-ish players to his key.