Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Kokolums]

In a more constructive way, I will give an example of the problem that appeared very early on Star Wars. Remember that Simpsons episode with Poochie, in which the kids ask at the same time new stuff and to keep the show the same (Ralph provide the more helpful comment by eating his buzzer)

That's the same problem. Any idea diverging too much from ''ANH'' is meet with hostility by some fans, who at the same time cry it's the same.

That's not the problem.

If you create interesting new characters, people will go along for the ride. The problem is episodes 7 and 8 didn't create new interesting characters. I don't think rey, kylo, finn, poe, hux, snoke, phasma, rose nor holdo are interesting characters.

I can point to Doctor Who, which completely reinvents itself every time it casts a new Doctor in many cases. Look at the first 3 Doctors (Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee). They did their thing and it was successful. Then they basically introduce a whole new kind of Doctor in Tom Baker and go in a completely different direction and its a wild success. Why? because Tom Baker's Doctor was insanely interesting.

The basic foundation of good fiction can be summed up in 1 sentence. Create interesting characters and torture them for 300 pages. That's it. The sequels didn't create interesting characters.

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I think the most interesting character of all of Disney Star Wars is young Lando as played by Donald Glover. I think you could write some good fiction around him.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think the majority of the SW fan base would prefer TLJ never existed. So yes, it really is.

Just like the majority would Proabbly say the same for the prequels. new starwars movies drive new starwars content out side of the movies which the majority of the fan base would Proabbly agree is a good thing unless your counting the fan base as people who see the movies then forget starwars exist until another movie comes out.

[Th3Scourge]

Just like the majority would Proabbly say the same for the prequels. new starwars movies drive new starwars content out side of the movies which the majority of the fan base would Proabbly agree is a good thing unless your counting the fan base as people who see the movies then forget starwars exist until another movie comes out.

They would probably be right about the prequels, but, if the Disney movies accomplished anything, amazingly, it gave me an appreciation for the prequels. I never thought that day would come but it did. There's a feeling about the George Lucas movies that the new ones just don't have. I'd rather watch Phantom Menace on repeat with my eyes surgically held open than watch TLJ again. Disney SW is boardroom-directed content, devoid of any soul or feeling. They want to see x of y included in the movies so they can earn z box office dollars.

[Skulltaker]

What evidence do you have that Poe planned the attack, and Leia "just sanctioned it"? She literally says, "That's not the plan," when he insists on attacking with the bombers, which seems to suggest the people on the bridge came up with the plan.

What evidence do you have that the bombers couldn't have easily disengaged and jumped to hyperspace?

Your point about the results (that he saved their lives) is disingenuous and out of context, because at the time, they had no idea the Fleet could track them through hyperspace. If anything, that's the shitty writing, where Poe's recklessness is justified by a contingency that was considered literally impossible. But I guess the writer (IE Rian Johnson) had to drum up some drama for the rest of the movie in re: the pursuit.

Battlefront II spoiler ahead.

[Spoiler] In the events of Star Wars: Battlefront II, Inferno Squad retrieves the plans for the Dreadnought, among other things, from a First Order Star Destroyer.

Poe Damron is given these plans by Leia, making it his responsibility to formulate a strategy how to combat this threat. It's true that the original plan was to harass the Dreadnought to give the fleet time to disengage. [Spoiler]

But then, why were the Bombers in a position to attack? We've seen how slow they move. Even assuming that Why weren't they the first piece of wargear landed? They were positioned inbetween the Dreadnought, which was well in range.

The dialogue inbetween Leia and Poe goes as follows, and I quote, because, not, she doesn't say 'that's not the plan', you misremembered that:

"You did it, Poe. Now get your squad back here so we can get out of this place."
"No, General! We can do this! We have a chance to take out a dreadnought! These things are fleet killers, we can't let it get away!"
"Disengage now, that is an ord-" - at which point he cuts her off.
He proceeds to destroy the last AAA gun on the Dreadnought, with BB-8s little 'plugging holes' gag, and then we get the Fulminatrix's bridge telling us about Bombers on aproach. Next thing we see are the Bombers inbetween the two fleets, moving at a very slow pace.

If, as Poe was ordered, they had turned around to rejoined the fleet, the Fulminatrix would have blown the Raddus out of space, no questions asked. It was about to fire right befor they dropped the bombs. The moment they started their attack run, shortly after Poe and Leias exchange, they were already considerably closer to the First Order ships then they were to the Resistance ships. Check here for reference. This scene takes place ~80 seconds after Poes and Leias exchange. Here's the dialogue, in case you don't have the movie at hand. Otherwise, Leia's 'get back here so we can get out' makes no sense.

They would have gotten butchered on their way back. They would have, at least, taken the same time to get home as their attack run, plus time to land, while being attacked by fighters non-stop. AAA from the resistance fleet might have helped. Anyhow, after reading up on the SF100, they do have hyperdrives, but so do all the other fighters, which is why I assume that they were not fully fueled, seeing how low the Resistance was on 'gas', and had to be recovered.

Anyhow, are you honestly telling me that you think the fleet would have made it befor the Dreadnought had obliterated their flag ship? Poe decided to risk the squadron instead of risking the lives of their entire command staff and their biggest ship.

As for the 'he saved their lives' part, I've said multiple times befor that he couldn't have known that. I just told that to Vegas, as he usually makes a point about not making a point, lacks any structure or evidence to support his participating posts and generally couldn't make a sound argument to save his life. The entire scene was badly written, and is the first of many many scenes in the movie where all the problems the multiple characters face are almost exclusivly their own fault. Had command positioned the bombers closer to the fleet, they would have kept them. Had the Fulminatrix's captain ordered the ship to destroy the cruisers first, instead of the base, the movie would have been over. If Hux wasn't a blathering idiot, he would have sent out fighters immediatly after they spotted Poe. It goes through the entire movie, one bad descision hunts the other.

[Ayirasi]

That would almost be as epic as the duel between Eggshen and Lopan in "Big Trouble in Little China".

[tyrlaan]

I think the majority of the SW fan base would prefer TLJ never existed. So yes, it really is.

Citation please.

If you create interesting new characters, people will go along for the ride. The problem is episodes 7 and 8 didn't create new interesting characters. I don't think rey, kylo, finn, poe, hux, snoke, phasma, rose nor holdo are interesting characters.

Whoa, a legit criticism of TLJ? Like ROUS's, I didn't think they existed ;-)

I don't agree with you completely, but this is an issue with the film I can understand and respect.

Calling out Phasma as uninteresting really resonates with me. I guess they were going for the Boba Fett effect, but honestly it just fell flat (I'd also argue there's little to explain why Boba Fett was seen as such a badass so quickly).

They would probably be right about the prequels, but, if the Disney movies accomplished anything, amazingly, it gave me an appreciation for the prequels. I never thought that day would come but it did. There's a feeling about the George Lucas movies that the new ones just don't have. I'd rather watch Phantom Menace on repeat with my eyes surgically held open than watch TLJ again. Disney SW is boardroom-directed content, devoid of any soul or feeling. They want to see x of y included in the movies so they can earn z box office dollars.

I'm not sure I could disagree with you more, but I appreciate your skill with hyperbole and imagery.

[Th3Scourge]

Citation please.

44% on Rotten Tomatoes would be a good place to start.

I'm not sure I could disagree with you more, but I appreciate your skill with hyperbole and imagery.

That's what I was going for

[Miyagie]

It's not a kamikaze attack if you use an asteroid with an engine attached to it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They would probably be right about the prequels, but, if the Disney movies accomplished anything, amazingly, it gave me an appreciation for the prequels. I never thought that day would come but it did. There's a feeling about the George Lucas movies that the new ones just don't have. I'd rather watch Phantom Menace on repeat with my eyes surgically held open than watch TLJ again. Disney SW is boardroom-directed content, devoid of any soul or feeling. They want to see x of y included in the movies so they can earn z box office dollars.

You are aware lucus added in things like ewok’s just to sell toys right? Past the first one they have litteraly all been included x and y so they can make z.

[namecraft]

I love most space movies tho, not really about the story for me, more locations and cool suits and aliens.

[exochaft]

You are aware lucus added in things like ewok’s just to sell toys right? Past the first one they have litteraly all been included x and y so they can make z.

It's a case of two extremes when it comes to Lucas and the new SW movies. The prequels vs original trilogy are a prime example of what happens when you give Lucas too much control and no voice of reason to keep him in check. You can have insanely smart/creative people in a movie production, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a good movie. You can even see it in the behind-the-scenes videos and commentaries to see that a huge failing of the prequels was that Lucas had vastly more control over the production, and no one challenged him or or someone that would say things like "Yeah, that Midi-chlorian thing? ....no." This is where you need a strong team and reasonable producers to keep Lucas focused on what's important, not random thoughts that go nowhere or won't better a film.

When it comes to the new trilogy, it kind of suffers from what I described with Lucas in terms of Johnson. This is why TLJ is a jumbled mess with so much conflicting issues that it screams that Johnson was just given free reign on most things, and no one told him "No, this is stupid and doesn't make sense" when an issue came up. Now I do think the producers/executives did have some say and oversight in the process, but as long as their issues were met, they didn't care about the rest of the movie's content.

To be completely fair, Lucas and Johnson are not the only director that suffers from this issues, most big-name directors need a voice of reason in order to make their works what they are. It's pretty common when you have a fresh, new director makes a great first or break-out movie, the execs give them a project and say "You're great! Do whatever you want!"... and they end up making completely terrible films when they have no oversight.

Hopefully with Ep 9, JJ will have the freedom to do what he wants, while also having a voice of reason to say things like "Yeah... those lens flares? ....no."

[JimmyHotz]

I think the majority of the SW fan base would prefer TLJ never existed. So yes, it really is.

Rian Johnson is not responsible for making the movie that every Star Wars fan has in their heads.

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I have noticed that people seem to keep going back to this 'Why did Holdo ram the Calmari Cruiser into Snoke's ship?!?!? Why hasn't this been done before?!??!!??! Why didn't they do this in other Star Wars movies?!?!?!?? MOM WIPE ME!' etc and so forth.
There's two reasons for this. One, being that no writer thought to ever do this. Two, in the fictional Star Wars universe itself, this would be extremely impractical. Ships are expensive, and they take a very, very long time (presumably) to build, so if you just go around Hyper-jumping one ship into another, you're now out of a ship that you probably really needed. In war times, resources are quite precious. Churchill gave Turing one million Pounds to create his code-breaking machine and that was considered an insane waste of resources by many. I think the reason most fan boy's haven't realized this is because they are so obsessed with a fictional universe and characters that someone else created, that they do not have enough of an understand of the actual world we live in, and as such are not able to understand the time/resource/cost trade-off's that must often be made, probably because their mother's cook their food and buy their underwear for them. Thank you for reading, have a great day.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's a case of two extremes when it comes to Lucas and the new SW movies. The prequels vs original trilogy are a prime example of what happens when you give Lucas too much control and no voice of reason to keep him in check. You can have insanely smart/creative people in a movie production, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a good movie. You can even see it in the behind-the-scenes videos and commentaries to see that a huge failing of the prequels was that Lucas had vastly more control over the production, and no one challenged him or or someone that would say things like "Yeah, that Midi-chlorian thing? ....no." This is where you need a strong team and reasonable producers to keep Lucas focused on what's important, not random thoughts that go nowhere or won't better a film.

When it comes to the new trilogy, it kind of suffers from what I described with Lucas in terms of Johnson. This is why TLJ is a jumbled mess with so much conflicting issues that it screams that Johnson was just given free reign on most things, and no one told him "No, this is stupid and doesn't make sense" when an issue came up. Now I do think the producers/executives did have some say and oversight in the process, but as long as their issues were met, they didn't care about the rest of the movie's content.

To be completely fair, Lucas and Johnson are not the only director that suffers from this issues, most big-name directors need a voice of reason in order to make their works what they are. It's pretty common when you have a fresh, new director makes a great first or break-out movie, the execs give them a project and say "You're great! Do whatever you want!"... and they end up making completely terrible films when they have no oversight.

Hopefully with Ep 9, JJ will have the freedom to do what he wants, while also having a voice of reason to say things like "Yeah... those lens flares? ....no."

I don’t really think i can disagree with this. All of the movies have parts I’d say are really well done but then on the other hand they have really bad things like pod racing or the casino.

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Why didn't they do this in other Star Wars movies?!?!?!?? MOM WIPE ME!' etc and so forth.
There's two reasons for this. One, being that no writer thought to ever do this.

This isn’t quite true, there is atleast one old canon example that I know of where a clown war era ship’s hyper drive went off by accident and the ship ended up splitting a planet to its core before it stopped. There are Proabbly other examples lost in the mess of the old eu but this is the only one I remember.

[JimmyHotz]

I don’t really think i can disagree with this. All of the movies have parts I’d say are really well done but then on the other hand they have really bad things like pod racing or the casino.

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This isn’t quite true, there is atleast one old canon example that I know of where a clown war era ship’s hyper drive went off by accident and the ship ended up splitting a planet to its core before it stopped. There are Proabbly other examples lost in the mess of the old eu but this is the only one I remember.

But you understand my point: it's just never been seen before on screen. I love how bent out of shape people get about the 'rules' of a fictional universe, like, go outside or some shit, Jesus Christ.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But you understand my point: it's just never been seen before on screen. I love how bent out of shape people get about the 'rules' of a fictional universe, like, go outside or some shit, Jesus Christ.

Oh ya I tottaly get your point. It’s even sillier when people say TLJ breaks the canon by doing it but it was already a thing in canon in the past.

[Tyrannica]

Billy Dee Williams [Lando] is coming back and a woman named Naomi Ackie has speculative been casted as his daughter . Another newcomer is Richard E. Grant.

Richard E. Grant is a great actor for sure, see him in warlock along with julian sands as a witchhunter.

But, if they treat him bad as Max von Sydow(aka Emperor Ming) in episode 7 and kill him off early on without bringing anything to the table this will be another movie disaster for me personally.

And honestly it shows that JJ is overrated, i bet without lucas around he had a lot of freedom what to do, anyways. And yet he misserably failed, with that waste of a great actor.(and the movie alltogether honestly, other than special effects, it felt all very wooden and childish)

Just looked at his stephen king series lately "castle rock" and i was not impressed.

JJ Abrahms is purely an action director, who can make nice special effects and sets, but cannot tell a story and build up characters proper. I miss suspense as well, nothing like for example Carpenter was.

I miss the directors of the old days, badly, if these shallow movies is all they can do with their insane budget.

[Flarelaine]

The Rise of Skywalker seems like an odd title choice if this is the end of the Skywalker saga...

Nolan's Batman trilogy also ended with The Dark Knight Rises.

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There's a whole lot of nothing in that trailer until the Emperor laughs. I am intrigued but my hopes are not raised.

To be honest, I'm not completely sure it was the Emperor. I mean, context suggests it, but... Hamill made quite a living on maniac laughs.

[Fayolynn]

Right. You’re using hindsight. Stop pretending they should have seen the future and known they’d be tracked through hyperspace.

I don't know why they would assume they wouldn't be tracked since tracking has been a thing since A New Hope came out. Just another example of a bad script.

[Katchii]

Rian Johnson is not responsible for making the movie that every Star Wars fan has in their heads.

No one is saying that. He was responsible for making a GOOD movie, and a lot of people (me included) think he failed miserably. The Force Awakens may have been A New Hope version 2.0, but it FELT like a Star Wars movie. The Last Jedi, felt like a badly written Guardians of the Galaxy with lightsabers. This isn't going to be very effective at making my point but I know people will get it. I left The Force Awakens excited and happy, feeling like I just saw a brand new fucking STAR WARS movie and even went and saw it two more times in the theater. I left Rogue One feeling the same way. I left The Last Jedi feeling confused, disappointed and asking "what the fuck did I just watch?" That's not a very empirical review, but Star Wars was never really about a critically acclaimed they were, they were entertaining and fun and they all had a similar feeling when watching them, including the prequels. TLJ failed in all regards as a Star Wars movie to me.

[unholytestament]

To be honest, I'm not completely sure it was the Emperor. I mean, context suggests it, but... Hamill made quite a living on maniac laughs.

The trailer dropped days ago. It has been confirmed since that it most definitely is the Emperor.

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