So mythic+

[ID811717]

You guys got every excuse in the book to not invite someone. The difference between a 13 and a 15 is definitely NOT as drastic as you are making it out to be.

The difference between "highest key I have timed in dungeon X" and "2 levels higher than that" is big for anyone. There is a reason it's a highest key you have timed, it's progress content for you.

It does not matter whether we speak about 13 vs. 15, or we speak about 22 vs. 24. Your progress is personal to you. Sure, if you were timing +22s, then both +13 and +15 would have been trivial for you. But they are not trivial for people who invested a few thousand hours less into pushing M+.

[Freshouttajail]

The real problem is Blizzard not punishing people for leaving. Btw it's absolutely possible to make the difference between a ragequit and a disconnect, everyone should have a valid credit card registered to their account and when you quit it should take 100$ from your credit card and give 25$ to each remaining group member that you just fucked over.

Eat shit leavers.

PS. No I don't want useless deserter debuff or shit like that, it does nothing, no one gives a fuck. The punishment needs to be so bad people never leave again, ever. You join a group and you're with them until the last boss is dead, that's it.

[Pooti]

Yes you are right.He can use what ever metric he wants.The problem is does this metric is the most useful one to determine someones experience in the specific dungeon the party leader wants to do.



The IO score is just an indicator like ilvl is.And ilvl right now is practically uselless.The same can be said for IO score the way it is sold and easily farmed 10/15 levels (depending from the season).It is coming closer to being useless as the ilvl is.Basing everything on IO score is stupid.



I agree with you.I do the same thing with my groups.I was doing it in Legion and it just became a habit to go to the site and look at persones profile.1st it was wowprogress now it is RIO.Nothing has really changed.

I does not matter if the metric is the most useful one. If they choose to use the most useless metric they are free too. If you do not like the way others are doing it, then do it yourself. It is pretty simple.

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The real problem is Blizzard not punishing people for leaving. Btw it's absolutely possible to make the difference between a ragequit and a disconnect, everyone should have a valid credit card registered to their account and when you quit it should take 100$ from your credit card and give 25$ to each remaining group member that you just fucked over.

Eat shit leavers.

PS. No I don't want useless deserter debuff or shit like that, it does nothing, no one gives a fuck. The punishment needs to be so bad people never leave again, ever. You join a group and you're with them until the last boss is dead, that's it.

So if the other 4 members of the group all afk for 20 minutes, you are forced to stay there and wait or be charged $100. Great plan.

[Freshouttajail]

So if the other 4 members of the group all afk for 20 minutes, you are forced to stay there and wait or be charged $100. Great plan.

All of them should be reported and they all have 100$ taken and given to the guy they are trying to screw over. Send report with video of people not doing shit, profit.

"But I don't want to have to take video to report blablabla" the game should already have a recording system that records games just like the replay system in SC2 so you can review a run after it's done. Send that to Blizz and you're in business.

[Twdft]

Just a curiosity since I’m still into +9 bandwagon: apart from mobs and bosses doing more damage, what’s the difference between a +12 and a +15?

If my ilvl is adequate, why I should 100% fail a +15 having only done +12? Enemies dealing more damage simply means that party has to have more dps, it’s not that mechanics are different.

enemy health/damage modifiers:
+12 is +116%
+15 is +172%

That is quite a steep increase, +15 enemies are 1.5x as strong as in a +12. Mechanics might not be different but the pulls certainly have to be, +12 strategies will have to be refined to time +15.

If you take all evening a group with experience in +12 will probably beat the dungeon, but I highly doubt they'll make it intime. Which was the topic.

[Faesroll]

I wouldn't invite you either.

[Ealyssa]

So if all I run is TD ever. And i have a +20 in time TD you wouldn't invite me to a +10 TD because my IO score is ~ 260 even tho I've done the same dungeon on a much higher difficulty? Literally makes no sense.

Being carried in a single dungeon on an easy affix week means shit about personnal skill, yes...

People with ~1200 score expecting to complete a +15, especially this week, with a same level PUG are dellusional, period. OP experience clearly prove the point.

[ID811717]

Mythic raiders are just better than hardcore mythic+ pushers, you can watch the last 2 Invitationals finals to see it.

This can have so many meanings based on so many misunderstandings. Please elaborate.

[Bangdingow]

It's really annoying that raider.io effectively forces me to dungeons I not only dislike, but also need no loot from. I really want that TD trinket, but I can't just sit there and spam TD because if I don't have a good score on ALL of them I won't get invited to anything. It's pretty frustrating.

On the other hand, I guess it makes people spread around and helps people get more groups for their dungeons because people do them even though they don't need them just for their score.

And that's as a healer, of course. As a DPS, I haven't been invited yet to anything above +5 because I don't have 420 ilvl or 2,000 score.

This is the worst part of the entire system.

[RuneeBH]

Honestly, my favorite stat from IO (and probably least used) is "Number of 10-15 dungeons timed/completed"
If someone has an idea of what they're doing, that number is usually pretty high. Idec if you haven't done X dungeon on X difficulty. If you've done tons of others, you're clearly capable of learning/listening. Then again, I also think the biggest issue is everyone fucking watching Twitch thinking they're all competing in the MDI and thinking they have to run MDI strats to save 5 seconds and deathpull/rogue skip everything. Jus play the fucking game already, you're not a pro.

[Bangdingow]

There seems to be a couple different types of people who pug M+ these days. People who are ONLY interested in completing it in time and people who are interested in completing the dungeon regardless of time. Raider.io certainly caters to those interested in completing the dungeon in time.

I would love if Raider.io or someone else had the ability to add a dungeon abandoner count so we could more effectively see the type of player we're inviting. It would just keep track of how often someone is the first to leave during an M+ run. Early on in BFA I stuck around for a 2 hour Motherlode!! It was brutal, I don't remember the affixes but we had 3 arms warriors and everyone was shit geared. I think we wiped 10+ times on the last boss alone but it was still fun in a way.

[shyguybman]

This can have so many meanings based on so many misunderstandings. Please elaborate.

I think he's trying to say that Method EU is performing better then all the people that do M+ everyday despite being primarily raiders. Naowh is the only one that pushes keys but the other 4 do not

[tclphz]

Reading this thread...yes I believe it is finally time for Blizzard to address raider.io.

It's less raider.io and more how the community uses raider.io.

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Honestly, my favorite stat from IO (and probably least used) is "Number of 10-15 dungeons timed/completed"
If someone has an idea of what they're doing, that number is usually pretty high. Idec if you haven't done X dungeon on X difficulty. If you've done tons of others, you're clearly capable of learning/listening. Then again, I also think the biggest issue is everyone fucking watching Twitch thinking they're all competing in the MDI and thinking they have to run MDI strats to save 5 seconds and deathpull/rogue skip everything. Jus play the fucking game already, you're not a pro.

I don't know if people use this, but agreed. I like looking at this, helps solved the high score because of paid carries issue.

There's reason to use some of the MDI strategy, but many times it'll just end in failure...

[Teaon]

I pug mythic+ (inb4 i get a million replies telling me to find friends/join a guild or push my own keys), and I've been trying for a couple weeks to get into a 15 group. I've been declined dozens of times. My io is 1202. My item level is 413 and the highest dungeon I've done is +14. I've 2 chested 13s. Done 18 timed +10-14 runs. I want to say first it's bs how everyone seems to expect you to have done a 15 in order to allow you into one but how can you if they don't give you a chance. I am polite and state my spec and even throw in that I have eng battle rez just in case (I don't plan on letting anyone die but some people ignore mechanics or I'd add that I have tailoring net, chastise, grip, shackle, and fear for affix kite, 2 dispels for reap and no cd offensive dispel. So I don't simply just queue anymore but do frequently try to sell myself and tell them I can handle it, to give me a chance. I also dps the entire run when I am able. Obviously heals are priority but every bit helps, especially interrupts via chastise.

Well, just tonight I get invited to a AD 15. Finally, I thought. Let's do this. We get to second boss no issues. We're on second boss and our shaman is not doing much of anything and he stands in green mess and dies. I tried to rez him twice with my eng brez and the druid tank even went over to rez him. He said something along the lines of "Just wipe it guys" when we weren't dying. We actually finished the boss while he was dead, then he left group. Group disbanded. Looked some more and got into another 15. Was super happy. It was a TOS. Again, we make it to second boss with no issues. We're on boss and he's below half HP and one of the DPS goes down. Again, I tried twice to rez as did another person in my group and they did not take it. We ended up being overwhelmed and wiping after almost taking out boss. The DPS left group and we disbanded. I was about to give up but was super determined. So I looked yet again at group finder. Applied to numerous groups in between these runs only to get denied - this is usual as I mentioned beforehand. Anyways, I applied to a ML 15 and they invited me! What luck. Third times the charm, I thought. Again, we did fine up until second boss where tank didn't want to use totems but a stacking strat? I feared, mage nova'd. We tried to cc, but got stunned and was targeted and quake came. We wiped. Came back and used totems. Mage went down as he/she didn't run from mob. He wanted a rez but it was down. We killed the boss and moved on. The mage went offline and never came back. Group disbanded. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Sure, I could push my own key. Earlier on the week I had a 14 key after pushing a 12. I figured I'd be smart and be a little more particular about who I let in because I have in the past given people and chance and it's come back to bite me, but that may be my luck. Actually last week we had a mage who assured me he was good, did less dmg than the tank and said it was his spec. The key was killed, but the mage made off with a good key and a 415 with a socket. Anyways, so I invite higher io people for this other key I was trying to push and who would have guessed it, we're headed to 2nd boss and the tank is pulling funky and asking hunter to put flares up and at one point he went to run out of the dungeon instead of just tanking a group that was accidentally pulled. Him and 2 of the DPS start arguing. I say "guys, can we please proceed?" Because I advertised it as a chill group for completion but aimed to push. The tank tells the hunter "fk you mum," (I think he meant to say your) and then he left the group. I downgraded the key and tried with a different group and did the same - was more particular about who I invited. We got in and everything was going fine until someone chain pulled another group and I tried my hardest to keep people up but we ended up wiping. Someone rage quit and we disbanded.

I used to only keep playing wow because I pvp'd but now that I have barely done rated this xpac and none this season at all, I decided to get back into mythic and until now it's kept my interest but honestly, I was struggling to find reasons to get on wow and do stuff and with crap like this happening in like one of the last things I enjoy in game, I feel like just moving on and doing something else with my time, for real. I'm almost at 50 neck and I don't even know why I spent all that time grinding for what? Sorry to whine and be a debbie downer but I just wanted to share my recent experience with mythic+ and see if anyone has the same terrible luck?

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So people leave over a single wipe (or no wipe at all) when they think or know we won't finish in time or even if we can finish in time. There's no rhyme or reason.

have you ever tried to make a group?

i am not tell you that as to "make your own group 4Head"

but i am saying that because, making a 15 key group, you get like hundreds of appliers in the que wanting the spot, you are literally COMPETING against lots and lots of people that have either higher IO score than you, or higher gear than you, or both, or hell even better class/spec than you.

its not that they do not want you because your score, but why would i take someone with 413 ilvl and 1200 io, when i have in the que someone with 1500 io and 414 ilvl?

[dim]

RIO addon or something like it will always exist, same as Gearscore, simple cuz ppl need some kind of number and info about abilities they can expect from a player....but that info can be misguided often and ppl that CAN do some M+ keys are not invited due to some info that looked like they can't. And that happens all the time when you are trying to PUG.

but, one thing that would be nice to implemented in RIO, if possible ofc....is the number of times a person left the team first or dced and never came back. Ok, ppl dc in runs, but if its often...than maybe you don't want that person in the group anyway regardless if they are doing it on purpose or not.

Everyone hates ragequiters, and they are freaking annoying after 1 wipe and maybe see that it will not be timed, they just leave.....doesn't matter they skrewed someones key and rest of the group.

Maybe if there would be a statistic about that....it would be very interesting to see how often those ppl get invited despite their RIO score

[tclphz]

have you ever tried to make a group?

i am not tell you that as to "make your own group 4Head"

but i am saying that because, making a 15 key group, you get like hundreds of appliers in the que wanting the spot, you are literally COMPETING against lots and lots of people that have either higher IO score than you, or higher gear than you, or both, or hell even better class/spec than you.

its not that they do not want you because your score, but why would i take someone with 413 ilvl and 1200 io, when i have in the que someone with 1500 io and 414 ilvl?

OP did make a group and the group was pretty toxic. Also, having been making groups to help a friend lately (w/ 1350 brewmaster), I'm finding that there's not many great options out there. To be fair, this was a 11 Motherlode and it's not a good week for that. But I would've expected just better players (judging by ilvl and .io score) available.

[Zenfoldor]

So the reason Blizzard should take this over is to prevent wasting everyone's time. If Blizzard created a Raider.IO substitute and incorporated it into the UI, it would accomplish one very important thing. You could then enter those values as a filter when searching the groupfinder.

So, for example, if I wanted someone with a raider.io score of at least 1100, who had an item level of at least 410, who had completed a +15 Freehold in time, I could setup my filters for that. Then I would only see and invite people who qualified and only people who qualified would see my listing. This saves frustration, but the argument for it is that it also saves a lot of time for everyone involved.

The second thing that would bring in would be a general softening of the data. Yes it would be more accurate, but segments of the metadata could then be walled off from the community preventing overly onerous requirements, like we see in this thread.

[elmoe420]

So the reason Blizzard should take this over is to prevent wasting everyone's time. If Blizzard created a Raider.IO substitute and incorporated it into the UI, it would accomplish one very important thing. You could then enter those values as a filter when searching the groupfinder.

It is not as good as it could be if Blizzard handled this directly, but as a player searching for a group you can already do this with a LFG tool add-on like Premade Groups Filter:

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addon...-groups-filter

See the "Raider.io" section of the FAQ for the filter keywords you are looking for:

https://github.com/0xbs/premade-grou.../wiki/Keywords

[Diliamlol]

i can't see has he bought or not you are right.
What I can see is the difference in ilvl gear between him and his teammates. If it is to high it is some kind of indicator of him being boosted or not.

A lot of people are buying heroic BoD boosts, and M+ boosts. Easily achieve 400+ item level without ever stepping foot in a +10. The people I boost have run very few +2's-+5's, but always buy a certain +10 keystone whenever we have it. I have a few clients who are like that just to get a single trinket or ring. One guy bought 3-4 runs with us in a single dungeon just to get a mage fuse.

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So if all I run is TD ever. And i have a +20 in time TD you wouldn't invite me to a +10 TD because my IO score is ~ 260 even tho I've done the same dungeon on a much higher difficulty? Literally makes no sense.

If i see that you have run multiple TD's above the +10 and have only done +2 or +3's in the other dungeons I am going to ask you for 150k gold to run with us in a +10 TD because you most likely bought a boost. Some people just buy boosts in a single dungeon to get a certain item.

[Brewhan]

Reading this thread makes me want to rise to the occasion and become a great M+ tank and lead my fellow pug players to victory. Yet I realize the immense time dedication that would require to make it happen and for no appreciation 90% of the time with randoms anyways. Even if you put in a lot of work to make the run complete.