[Spoilers] Thrall

[Zuben]

I like the new model, very Thrall-like, but more shamany than with the doom armor. The model they conjured for WoD was ridiculous, so I welcome this one with open arms.

But if I am to like his character he can't be the same personality he used to be. Guilt-punishing his people and being a slow-reaction leader all around wasn't a good look, then I hated how he refused all responsibility for Garrosh and even cheated to defeat him. I can understand why he'd rescue Baine from execution, but other than that I want him to recognise the merits of Sylvanas's side and work towards returning the two sides of the Horde back together. The role of a mediator would be good at this point in the story and someone who was once the Warchief fills those shoes well.

[Reinhart11]

Thralls story literally ended after WC 3 TFT. Should have killed him right there. Now he is nothing more than another Baine and Saurfang. Incompetent, spineless, disgusted by his own people and using racial guilt against your own for atrocities their parents commit is absolutely inexcusiable.

This story goes down deeper into the shitter of "God Emperor Anduin will unite the factions in peace and love for all eternity" with every patch. They should definitely rename this game as well.

And people claim Golden has no influence on this shit. Oh well, i'm at a point where i don't even care anymore. The idiocy seems endless and it probably is, when it comes to these writers. Its downright fucking disgusting.

And no reality exists where any of my characters will help Thrall, Baine, Saurfang or any of their despicable ilk fighting against and killing their own faction/people.

[Coffer]

I have severe doubts that Blizzard will take his character in a positive direction, but I'll happily take anything to put an end to the Forsaken and the bullshit "b-but the light is evil in its own way too!" storyline that Blizzard have been trying to concoct.

[Cabbe]

All i have to say is that the Alliance is so weak and a shell of a faction that they united can't win from a divided Horde.

Except we're supposed to acknowledge that the Alliance is winning "on all fronts" and while Horde racial leaders definitely are conflicted and divided when it comes to their current warchief it's not like the different races that make out the Horde army are fighting each other instead of the Alliance. The inconsistencies in the story are ridiculous, though. I guess that's one of the biggest problems when you don't have one writer doing the writing, the way stories should be and usually are told. The story in this game is so freaking fragmented and inconsistent because different people with different biases write different parts and different sides to the story, catering to different parts of the player base and trying to make the players feel overall justified in most of what they have to do in-game to progress the story. It's a hot mess and very hard to take seriously.

Besides, it doesn't even matter if each and every race of one faction actually were at war with each other, with their own racial armies clashing on the fields, painting the ground red with blood. It doesn't even matter if 90% of their combined military might was wiped out by them tearing each other apart in a civil war. The other side still can not act realistically in this setting. They can't push their advantage and actually win. Hence, enter more hilarious inconsistencies and poor writing that forces characters, even those described as "cunning" or "intelligent", to temporarily act like they don't have a brain in order to preserve the status quo. Or simply to have plot point X play out. #factionwar #factionpride

[Cobman]

Important question will he start to use axe and fight as warrior? Since u know he lost his shaman skills and doomhammer. That would be refreshing.

[Mehrunes]

Professional victims. They side with the Horde to reap the benefits then deny involvement in a Horde plot against the Alliance because “it wasn’t us, we didn’t do it”.

They worked with a neutral organization, the Kirin Tor, yet quarreled with the covenant and only assisted the Horde who made enemies with a council member.

Your post is all sorts of wrong. The Sunreavers didn't "side" with the Horde, they are Horde. Yet despite that they didn't work with the rest of the Horde much. There was one single Sunreaver that aided in the theft of the Divine Bell, while the rest chilled in Dalaran without giving a crap about Garrosh's war. And since there was just one Sunreaver agent, no shit the rest of them deny involvement in the plot against Alliance because "it wasn't them, they didn't do it". There's this thing called the truth and that's what the Sunreavers are saying.

And I'm not sure what them quarreling with the Silver Covenant is supposed to mean here. The Silver Covenant isn't a Kirin Tor organization, it's Vereesa's private militia. That started the quarrel to boot. The very purpose of creating the Silver Covenant in the first place was starting the quarrel, because Vereesa and her lot couldn't handle Blood Elves returning to the city state they helped to create.

And not only - once again - was there only a single Sunreaver agent, but the Horde "making an enemy with a Council member" is meaningless here. Jaina wasn't in a position to pursue or even create her personal vendettas. But she did, because she herself didn't give a damn about Dalaran's neutrality like the giant hypocrite she has always been. That's why she was aiding the Alliance against the Horde before the theft (hell, it's arguable her doing so is what allowed the theft to happen) pursuing her own private agenda rather than acting as a member of the Kirin Tor. And yet she doesn't acknowledge her wrong doing. That unlike the stark majority of Sunreavers she actually committed.

difference there is, how long ago was that, 7-8 years ago? yet where as today I just regard the lore overall with the same discontent now, your the only still picking at the small details and only wanting that narrative. so really you can bugger off that high horse.

What difference does it make? You were whining about him for years on end in thread after thread after thread because you couldn't handle his story going in a direction you din't like, yet here you are hypocritically chastising others for an amount of criticism directed at Blizzard that pales in scope to your ginormous litany about your green Messiah. While also creating some bizarro world where Blizzard is a holy cow that is beyond criticism.

And I'm wanting what now? You weren't even addressing your hypocrisy at me there, so me thinks you got confused.

[Makabreska]

All i have to say is that the Alliance is so weak and a shell of a faction that they united can't win from a divided Horde.

Unfortunately, as of 8.1.5, they are winning.

[Dagoth Ur]

The Doomplate is a heritage armor in the most literal sense of the word, being the heritage passed from one of the OG Warchiefs to the next. It's iconic.

Hope at least this comes out of all of this. Although getting doomplate won't console me on what my faction's about to become, at least I can reminiscent the good old days.

[Cobman]

Your post is all sorts of wrong. The Sunreavers didn't "side" with the Horde, they are Horde. Yet despite that they didn't work with the rest of the Horde much. There was one single Sunreaver that aided in the theft of the Divine Bell, while the rest chilled in Dalaran without giving a crap about Garrosh's war. And since there was just one Sunreaver agent, no shit the rest of them deny involvement in the plot against Alliance because "it wasn't them, they didn't do it". There's this thing called the truth and that's what the Sunreavers are saying.

And I'm not sure what them quarreling with the Silver Covenant is supposed to mean here. The Silver Covenant isn't a Kirin Tor organization, it's Vereesa's private militia. That started the quarrel to boot. The very purpose of creating the Silver Covenant in the first place was starting the quarrel, because Vereesa and her lot couldn't handle Blood Elves returning to the city state they helped to create.

And not only - once again - was there only a single Sunreaver agent, but the Horde "making an enemy with a Council member" is meaningless here. Jaina wasn't in a position to pursue or even create her personal vendettas. But she did, because she herself didn't give a damn about Dalaran's neutrality like the giant hypocrite she has always been. That's why she was aiding the Alliance against the Horde before the theft (hell, it's arguable her doing so is what allowed the theft to happen) pursuing her own private agenda rather than acting as a member of the Kirin Tor. And yet she doesn't acknowledge her wrong doing. That unlike the stark majority of Sunreavers she actually committed.




What difference does it make? You were whining about him for years on end in thread after thread after thread because you couldn't handle his story going in a direction you din't like, yet here you are hypocritically chastising others for an amount of criticism directed at Blizzard that pales in scope to your ginormous litany about your green Messiah. While also creating some bizarro world where Blizzard is a holy cow that is beyond criticism.

And I'm wanting what now? You weren't even addressing your hypocrisy at me there, so me thinks you got confused.

Ok ill use logic here. How can you possibly know only one member of specific faction was guilty? I'm sure if you question them there would be zero guilty. To ensure that treason actions would not occur more you banish whole faction, that's logical. It would consume a lot of time and efforts to find specific guilty and back then there was a time of war where you couldnt possibly allow yourself to start this investigation. And as I remember she let everyone flee but those who glorified their houses/businesses/taxes more then their lives perished.

[Mehrunes]

and thrall isnt even like "lets talk this out come on now we dont have to do this, i was the warchief please just put down your weapons and lets think about this" he doesnt even try. he just kills all those horde blood elves who wanted justice for their people who had been taken by humans and put into prisons or killed

do you think any sense of irony is going through his balding green head as he brutally kills blood elf after blood elf with lightning and crushing them with his hammer.

While you're right about the overall hilariousness of the story, this bit here is just Thrall being consistent in being an arbitrary piece of shit. He did the same thing in 5.1 when he attacked the Kor'kron in Echo Isles for doing their job of maintaining a martial law issued by the Warchief of both the Kor'kron AND the Trolls (and Thrall himself). That Garrosh had all the right in the world to issue. Especially when you consider that the Trolls there were loyal followers of Vol'jin. Who, as Baine himself has argued later on, was a traitor to the Horde since before Cataclysm that Garrosh had the legal and moral right to execute.

Did Thrall try to talk it out? Not really. The moment the Kor'kron showed signs of non-compliance (because they had no reason to comply and they likely outranked Thrall in the Horde at that point) he went Rambo on them and removed the martial law by force.

Even though he himself issued a Kor'kron-ran martial law against the Forsaken before. Who, unlike the Trolls, were not loyal followers of a traitor who should have been executed, but were victims of the Burning Legion-inspired coup that they fought against.

Thrall has always been playing favorites with members of the Horde without paying even a nanosecond to develop self awareness and ponder on the irony of his actions in light of his endless moralizing and championing the idea of the Horde being a family of equal bruddamons.

All i read when I read something like this, is one massive whine post, because your own biases aren't being meet in this. Thrall has killed his own orcs before, in the siege of orgrimmar, orcs he may well have helped free from the prison camps, all just for them to turn on him and side with Garrosh.

Also, if these sunreavers are siding with sylvanas, going so far in there vendetta they now only value vengeance over rational thought, such as seeing thrall and saurfang freeing baine, but only have that vendetta against Jaina in mind, it means their a lost cause.

Jaina was in theramore when garrosh dropped the bomb on her city, yet despite all the shit she went though, shes not siding with thrall and saurfang to free baine, members of the horde.

so, fuck the sunreavers, they now made their bed.

Ah, yes. Because people freeing an exposed and convicted traitor from his rightful imprisonment are supposed to be the kind of people one follows. And apparently doing that constitutes "rational thought" in your bizarro world. And Jaina, a complete enemy of the Horde, aiding them in that endeavor is only supposed to inspire actual Horde members to free a traitor even more. Because traitors freeing another traitor while openly working with the enemy to achieve that is what any state is supposedly all about. Because "rational" reasons. And you talk about whine posts caused by one's own biases, lul.

have you read the dialogue? One of them, perhaps Jaina, tried to reason with them that their vendetta is with her as a way of drawing them off. But they decide they want to kill everyone there, her, thrall, saurfang and baine. Ther vendetta extends to killing the hordes own leaders.

What leaders? Thrall bailed on his position years ago even though he named Garrosh only an active Warchief and was supposed to return once Cataclysm has been solved. Saurfang abandoned his at Lordaeron. Baine is a convicted traitor. Just because they were Horde leaders in the past doesn't make them leaders forever. Now they are nothing more than a bunch of renegades openly working with the enemy of the Horde. And they deserve to die for that.

[Kumorii]

Is it just me or does this really hint at it being SoO 2.0? Not sure how it can lead into something other than that. :/

[Mehrunes]

I love how Trassk reverted to defending Jaina because she is standing with his hubby Thrall.

This is some stand-up comedy stuff.

He'd defend a team of Void Lords and Sargeras if Thrall teamed up with them to free his traitorous buddies.

Also seeing a lot of people be like "Sylvanas is the best Warchief, don't let the traitor become the next Warchief". These people literally ignoring the fact that Vol'jin naming Sylvanas Warchief in his place was all due to someone pretending to be the loas and probably has evil plans. Its really silly to see people defend Sylvanas when she wasn't even meant to be the next Warchief XD

Vol'jin sucking at being even a Shadow Hunter is his problem. We know for a fact that she had nothing to do with this as her own internal monologues expressed both surprise at the turn of events and a dislike of becoming a Warchief in the first place. Whether Vol'jin meant to name her or Basic Campfire is irrelevant, what matters is that in the end he did name her and she became a Warchief.

Good ole lore forums, you can always depend on them to whine about every little story development, no matter what it was.

You guys will tear apart anything but complete and utter nihilism, won't you?

You're constructing a straw-man the size of a galaxy right here.

"the people of camp taurajo must be avenged!" <flame shock>

Those have already been exiled. By Baine the Righteous, first of his name, the soul of what the Horde is "supposed to be".

If sylvanas did this, it so cool and awesome and justified somehow, but because Thrall does it, noooo, this is bad writing, boo hoo.

Is your straw-man whataboutism combo supposed to be an argument? And great choice of a person to target it at, @sillag is totes legit Sylvanas fan #1.

[Daevelian]

You're constructing a straw-man the size of a galaxy right here.

You use straw man so much it has lost all meaning.

You're also being reported for harassment, you've been warned not to talk to me several times in the past.

[Mehrunes]

Lol at all people calling Thrall the worst warchief. Without him the Horde wouldn't exist and died on Lordaeron against the Scourge. Cairne and his clan would have died against the Centaurs and the Darkspear would be in a fucked up state, if not even gone all along.

But all of that was caused by Medivh. Thrall merely blindly followed him. By this metric Medivh is the good Warchief here, not Thrall. Thrall's actual rule was one of ineptitude, where when he wasn't too busy appeasing the Alliance even in light of their repeated acts of aggression, he was punishing the Orcs for the crimes of First and Second war that many of them didn't even commit as they were born afterwards only to then act surprised when some of them had enough of that shit and turned to Garrosh's goal of great Orc restoration.

[kappalol]

You use straw man so much it has lost all meaning.

You're also being reported for harassment, you've been warned not to talk to me several times in the past.

Answering on your post and staying on topic is not harassment lol. Don't be so fragile m8. Free speech. You have no authority to stop him from answering. If you don't want to be quoted, don't post on forums.

[Daevelian]

Answering on your post and staying on topic is not harassment lol. Don't be so fragile m8. Free speech. You have no authority to stop him from answering. If you don't want to be quoted, don't post on forums.

We have a history, leave it at that.

[HeiAggra]

Unfortunately, as of 8.1.5, they are winning.

Are winning but not won!
That's the difference

[Mehrunes]

Ok ill use logic here. How can you possibly know only one member of specific faction was guilty? I'm sure if you question them there would be zero guilty. To ensure that treason actions would not occur more you banish whole faction, that's logical. It would consume a lot of time and efforts to find specific guilty and back then there was a time of war where you couldnt possibly allow yourself to start this investigation. And as I remember she let everyone flee but those who glorified their houses/businesses/taxes more then their lives perished.

Because that was both what Blizzard said out of game and the charge levied at Garrosh during his trial in War Crimes in-story? And you remember wrong. Jaina ordered the Silver Covenant to kill the Sunreavers' dragonhawks so they could not escape (which kinda contradicted her stated purpose of wanting them gone), which confused even the anti-Blood Elf warhawk Vereesa.

Also, if that's so logical to use collective punishment (just wat), why didn't the Kirin Tor use that after Thalen's betrayal? They are supposed to be pretty smart. And oh noes, time and effort. Poor, poor Jaina. I guess that totally justifies her committing ethno-political cleansing. Never mind that she didn't even have enough of evidence to charge Sunreavers with treason to begin with. She had some summary observations made in Darnassus and she just jumped to conclusion and demanded they leave the city immediately. OK, not immediately. She actually killed some Blood Elves before she even levied any charges against the Sunreavers and actually gave her ultimatum. Which puts her even more in the wrong.

On top of all of that she betrayed Dalaran's neutrality first and aided the Alliance against the Horde prior to the theft of the Divine Bell, meaning that if one was to use your logic she and all people loyal to her should have been banished without even properly establishing guilt and the scope of their actions before the purge of Sunreavers occurred.

[Cobman]

But all of that was caused by Medivh. Thrall merely blindly followed him. By this metric Medivh is the good Warchief here, not Thrall. Thrall's actual rule was one of ineptitude, where when he wasn't too busy appeasing the Alliance even in light of their repeated acts of aggression, he was punishing the Orcs for the crimes of First and Second war that many of them didn't even commit as they were born afterwards only to then act surprised when some of them had enough of that shit and turned to Garrosh's goal of great Orc restoration.

Medivh only instructed Thrall to go to the west and then fight for hyjal, nothing more. Recruitment of tauren/trolls and saving the world with his army is on Thrall. He builded first new Horde capital and ushered horde into superforce in Azeroth. You can laugh at him for green jesus story arc but what he did was amazing in wc3-cata.

[HeiAggra]

Important question will he start to use axe and fight as warrior? Since u know he lost his shaman skills and doomhammer. That would be refreshing.

Well we shall see, the elements were not answering him but he dont know why. Could be the elements were angry at him or he just lost his confidence or some other reason.
Maybe he reconnected with the elements once again.
As for the Doohammer after Legion the herores drop the artifacts so he could very well reclaim it or use another weapon, the doomhammer was not s shaman weapon actually was a orcish weapon made by the Blackrock clan.

- - - Updated - - -

Medivh only instructed Thrall to go to the west and then fight for hyjal, nothing more. Recruitment of tauren/trolls and saving the world with his army is on Thrall. He builded first new Horde capital and ushered horde into superforce in Azeroth. You can laugh at him for green jesus story arc but what he did was amazing in wc3-cata.

True, what he did back then was a great feat.