(SPOILERS!!!) 8.2 PTR summary

[KainneAbsolute]

So Tyrande appears as well? Great, was hoping she did, but where is a source for this? Not doubting you, but just curious.

My mistake! It is Shandris. Tyrande is mentioned:

"Thalyssra. So the Horde sends its sorceress to plunder the treasures of Zin-Azshari--and seize the Tidestone for your warchief, no doubt.

Would you entrust it to Tyrande? Perhaps she needs it to invoke yet another forbidden ritual."

[Syegfryed]

Anyone who still believes this is not MoP 2.0 tell me 5 differences. I'll wait

- Garrosh did nothing wrong
- There are no choices to stand with him whatsoever, even when it was more reasonable
- She will not be final raid boss
- She will not be imprisoned
- She will get a Kerrigan treatment, ascend to be an evil entity of death/void or just be redeemed

[Grazrug]

So more and more Horde leaders get ruined in the favor of human potential and Alliance appeasement. It's sad and pathetic to watch this crapshow unfold like this. I had high hopes for Lor'themar but he actually handwaves the Purge of Dalaran against his kin away and joins a muh honor squad, he never inteacted even once before in the entire story. Bad writing is bad.

- - - Updated - - -

Loyalists are given an option that prompts different NPC dialogue, different outcomes, and are recognized later on in the War Effort chain (closing off some avenues and opening others). So your complaint basically boils down to "the two paths aren't different enough." That's a valid criticism, I think, and I agree that it could certainly do with some unique content depending on what choices you've made to some degree.

As for Saurfang's rebellion, it currently belongs to just Saurfang and possibly Zekhan - no other info on his continuing escapades and no sign that he's assembled a coalition of any kind. So still not a civil war type of scenario yet.

For this to be different then MoP the ending needs to be different. Means Sylvanas wins for an instance. Both Sylvanas dead or jailed ends up in is just SoO 2.0.

[EbaumsTipster]

So more and more Horde leaders get ruined in the favor of human potential and Alliance appeasement. It's sad and pathetic to watch this crapshow unfold like this. I had high hopes for Lor'themar but he actually handwaves the Purge of Dalaran against his kin away and joins a muh honor squad, he never inteacted even once before in the entire story. Bad writing is bad.

Imagine dooming your entire race over a handful getting murdered (and for a mostly understandable reason as well).

"hurr durp jaina killed a few innocent shopkeepers im team sylvanas now "

[Aucald]

What "different outcomes"? The quests that actually contain the choices play the exact same way no matter what you choose. You still help Baine free Jaina brother, you still help Saurfang and Thrall free Baine. The only slight difference is the Saurfang one, but it's only because the loyalist version just ends abruptly after your choice, prior to that it plays the exact same as well. That doesn't meet any definition of choice under the sun.

The content is the same, but the dialogues and thus the outcomes are not. In every case you inform Sylvanas about what's up and she has you play along - but you are very much her agent. In the case of the Saurfang escape scenario you end it early, telling Zekhan off, and opting out of the cosmetic reward. It also appears the Baine rescue scenario plays out quite differently for loyalists as well, and the version you get seems dependent on prior choices. This is more agency than WoW ever offered before - especially in contrast to MoP, where a PC had zero agency in joining Vol'jin to oppose Garrosh's regime.

And by the end of the patch also Lor'themar, Baine, Thrall and anyone loyal to them.

To our knowledge thus far Lor'themar and Thrall and even Baine aren't acting in concert with Saurfang to oppose Sylvanas. This is the first sign of them working together in any capacity. Even if they do go on to form a nucleus of opposition to Sylvanas, it remains to be seen if this will evoke a civil war, or if that will even prove necessary if Sylvanas is corrupted by or joins N'Zoth.

[Ezekyler]

Why does she wants us to be alive, to kill N'zoth?

Maybe because she needs us alive to complete the ritual to free N'zoth using the HoA, if we are dead maybe the necklace doesn't work because reasons.

[Grazrug]

Imagine dooming your entire race over a handful getting murdered (and for a mostly understandable reason as well).

"hurr durp jaina killed a few innocent shopkeepers im team sylvanas now "

It was neither understanding nor a small coincedence. It was unjust murder and Jaina should die for her vile crimes against Blood Elves period. I hope Rommath kicks Lor'themar hard and usurps leadership from him before he makes any more peacemongering happen.

[Qualia]

Why does she wants us to be alive, to kill N'zoth?

Maybe because she needs us alive to complete the ritual to free N'zoth using the HoA, if we are dead maybe the necklace doesn't work because reasons.

At the moment, the description of the fight is (quoting it word by word): "Queen Azshara will use all of the forces at her command to disable the Ancient Wards keeping you alive while attempting to override the Titan device keeping N'Zoth imprisoned". I can't be 100% sure with the lack of commas, but it should be more like the Ancient Wards will be keeping us alive, and Azshara will use her forces to disable them (so we will be dead if they succeed) while attempting to override the Titan device which will be keeping N'Zoth imprisoned.

[KainneAbsolute]

I think the truce will end badly after defeating Azshara and then we will go total war.

Lorthemar is really sure about siding with Saurfang. Maybe he will lose Silvermoon.

[Aucald]

1. So now can players take part in something, what seems to go the same route as plot in MoP. Also, our choices have no relevancy at all, because in the end, you do what they want you to do anyway(with one exception being Saurfang scenario)
2. How MoP didn't have that?
3. What about Lor'themar and his struggling in the Horde which almost ended with him leaving? What about Vol'jin who almost get killed by Garrosh's assassins? Etc. again, how does this any differ from MoP in greater perspective?
4. yet. Only all of Horde leaders are uniting against yet another Warchief.
5. so instead of presence of one Old god (remains of Y'shaarj) you have N'zoth

I didn't say it's the exact copy. But the main points really come close

1.) There have been several acknowledgments of player agency in BfA, before the Saurfang scenario and now after it. This is more than MoP ever had, where you join Vol'jin despite your feelings about Garrosh and oppose him without an option. In the end, these choices will indeed boil down to a single outcome - but the fact they you could choose changes a lot. There's a right and wrong answer at the end of the day, but the choice was still given.

2.) MoP's setting was entirely regional to Pandaria, with a slight detour for Orgrimmar. BfA is much more decentralized, with fighting going on everywhere from the marquee spots of Zandalar and Kul Tiras, to Arathi, Darkshore, etc. etc. The context of the MoP conflict vs. the Blood War is also very different - with the stakes much higher and the prospect of piece much dimmer. The backdrop of a dying Azeroth adds to the motifs of desperation and despair that MoP lacked. MoP was optimistic despite what was happening in the world, whereas BfA is far darker and grittier.

3.) Lor'themar is not struggling with leaving the Horde in BfA, in fact his loyalty *to the Horde* has never been stronger. The context here is much more specific and focused on Sylvanas. Unlike with Garrosh there is a strong sense that Baine, Lor'themar, Thrall, and an increasing number of Horde leaders do not view Sylvanas as a legitimate Warchief and perhaps never did.

4.) The leaders aren't the Horde, and even Lor'themar acknowledges that the Sin'dorei may not choose to stand with him. A rift between the racial leaders and those they lead would be an excellent lever for dramatic storytelling that sets BfA apart from MoP - in MoP, the leaders never really had to sell the idea of the Insurrection to their people. Here, this may be required.

5.) Y'Shaarj never became a greater scope villain, he was obviously and pointedly second to Garrosh who was the arc-villain of MoP (as well as its final raid boss). N'Zoth appears to be on track to eclipse Sylvanas as villain, and we already know Sylvanas isn't going to appear as a raid boss. So this is another difference between the two stories. N'Zoth may be the "Godzilla Threshold" moment both the Horde and the Alliance need to pull their collective heads out of their asses and see to their dying world instead of playing soldiers.

[EbaumsTipster]

I think the truce will end badly after defeating Azshara and then we will go total war.

Lorthemar is really sure about siding with Saurfang. Maybe he will lose Silvermoon.

I mean what's interesting is that I don't think it's confirmed he knows that they killed Sunreavers during Baine's escape. Maybe he'll find out and his position will completely change.

[TickTickTick]

Maybe because she needs us alive to complete the ritual to free N'zoth using the HoA, if we are dead maybe the necklace doesn't work because reasons.

More like "i could kill you whenever i'd like to but ill let you live FOR NOW hehe, oh and you destroying and killing everything in my place is actually part of my plan, fuck all who were loyal to me, and ill let you beat me for my amusement" some time later: "HOOOOW IS THIS POSSIBLEEEEEeeeeee"

[Aucald]

For this to be different then MoP the ending needs to be different. Means Sylvanas wins for an instance. Both Sylvanas dead or jailed ends up in is just SoO 2.0.

I do agree the ending needs to be different (and markedly so), but I don't think that requires that Sylvanas "win." Sylvanas could turn her back on the current course and attempt to atone. She could fall prey to N'Zoth's influence and have to be rescued. She could atone and sacrifice herself for the greater good of the Horde or of Azeroth. She could even somehow justify her actions with some heretofore unknown plan that recontextualizes her actions in a retroactive fashion. Any of those are possible, and all of them would set her apart from Garrosh and the outcome of SoO.

[Langusta]

- Garrosh did nothing wrong
- There are no choices to stand with him whatsoever, even when it was more reasonable
- She will not be final raid boss
- She will not be imprisoned
- She will get a Kerrigan treatment, ascend to be an evil entity of death/void or just be redeemed

1. I get the meme
2. More reasonable? Like when he starts to kill members of other races because he thought that orc were superior?
3. if we can believe that, they already took back their words before (see WoD)
4. we can't say that for sure yet
5. again, we don't know that yet

[Hellspawn]

Thalyssra: Would you entrust it to Tyrande? Perhaps she needs it to invoke yet another forbidden ritual.

Its a forbidden ritual? Thats news to me... how does she even know shit about that, the night born don't even have priestress of elune themselfs.

[Qualia]

Its a forbidden ritual? Thats news to me... how does she even know shit about that, the night born don't even have priestress of elune themselfs.

The Nightborn were Kaldorei before WoTA, obviously Thalyssra would know about an ancient Kaldorei ritual.

[TickTickTick]

At the moment, the description of the fight is (quoting it word by word): "Queen Azshara will use all of the forces at her command to disable the Ancient Wards keeping you alive while attempting to override the Titan device keeping N'Zoth imprisoned". I can't be 100% sure with the lack of commas, but it should be more like the Ancient Wards will be keeping us alive, and Azshara will use her forces to disable them (so we will be dead if they succeed) while attempting to override the Titan device which will be keeping N'Zoth imprisoned.

that was my understanding

also a little conspiracy but... what if magni is indeed the pawn of nzoth and what if MOTHER is still corrupted? what if magni's ultimate goal is to release nzoth using MOTHER? lets say she does something to the divice which has a potential to release him (while we dont know about it) and azshara thinks its our goal too, so she tries to kill us while trying to prevent release of nzoth? as long as he's imprisoned, i imagine she has some kind of power over him, the moment he's released she's gone

[EbaumsTipster]

1. I get the meme
2. More reasonable? Like when he starts to kill members of other races because he thought that orc were superior?
3. if we can believe that, they already took back their words before (see WoD)
4. we can't say that for sure yet
5. again, we don't know that yet

So you admit people are screaming about what LOOKS likely and not what is guaranteed to happen.

Hint: Even though it'll piss people off, they are making it look like Siege on purpose. But Nzoth is 100% the endgame here considering the datamined text says he's been let loose after Azshara's defeat and Ion said the final fight of 8.2 spoils the final boss of the expansion

[Bangdingow]

I was really hoping Blizzard would do something cool with this mutiny and allow for a temporary 3rd faction in world pvp. I mean how cool would it be to be able to flag yourself as a horde rebel and fight the alliance AND the horde loyalists in world PVP. But instead I have to either team up with the alliance or follow a ruthless banshee queen to hell and back. Of course the civil war would eventually end and Blizz could do whatever they wanted with the story after that but that could have been a really cool moment in the annals of wow.

Blizz seems to care a lot more about systems, grinds and time sinks lately then they do about the cool/fun factor of their game.

[Syegfryed]

1. I get the meme
2. More reasonable? Like when he starts to kill members of other races because he thought that orc were superior?
3. if we can believe that, they already took back their words before (see WoD)
4. we can't say that for sure yet
5. again, we don't know that yet

1- memes can be true
2- if this was true it would show a clearly difference, but he didn't that, he only started when those races starting to rebel against him, sylvanas did kill horde people too, even her own civilians
3- they never said she will not be raid boss too, so, there is no backing words here if the words were never spoken
4- we can sure.
5- its pretty heavy implied