Mafia 116: Death Valley

[Graeham II]

Vote: Strikered

I was already planning on throwing a vote his way due to his track record of low activity, though his unprompted claim and refusal to answer my questions when prompted is too much to ignore. He seemed to be about to make some sort of odd play at my expense only to back off due to the Crackle and Dendrek tension firing off at the exact same time.

[Danner]

I kinda want to vote Graeham now.

[dupti]

Well, if nothing else my role is pretty easy to prove.

@dupti

Did you receive my gift?

I dont think so, at least Cru did not tell me anything.

I believe Strikered is claiming that you visited Marack. @Strikered can you confirm this is the case? And why didnt you vote on Graeham then?

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But now we have Crackle, who yesterday accused Dendrek of ganging up on him, even thinks he's hated by Dendrek (???). Seems to be hyper focused on Dendrek. Feeling threatened, Crackle?

Currently contemplating voting on either Kryllian or Crackle.

Thats interesting, because I actually think Crackle is very likely to be town based on his interaction with Dendrek.

Also this post kind of feels like fencesitting and I am not sure what to think of you not mentioning Strikered vs Graeham, as Strikered seems to be claiming that Graeham is lying

[Dendrek]

Thats interesting, because I actually think Crackle is very likely to be town based on his interaction with Dendrek.

Explain. /10 chars

[dupti]

Explain. /10 chars

I believe that if he was scum he was unlikely to call you out and engage in such a discussion with you, I feel like his frustration is very genuine and I think he has showed that he is also paying attention to what is happening this game (even though he missed the RP obviously).

Obviously my read is also related to the previous game where I was scum with him. He was pretty much neutral all game and did not engage anyone, so for him to put himself out there and engage you of all people who is very vocal will certainly put at least some focus on him, something he has shown no interest in getting as scum.

I also believe his claim.

However with that said I am not sure I necessarily agree with his vote, I think it is coming from a slightly biased OMGUS point of view, but I do believe that believes what he is saynig

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It's really frustrating that Strikered seemed to put out a soft claim with a result on Graeham but didn't actually claim or put a vote out before disappearing, because who is to say he will show up before deadline now. I sincerely hope he does because I am really interested

[Dendrek]

I believe that if he was scum he was unlikely to call you out and engage in such a discussion with you, I feel like his frustration is very genuine and I think he has showed that he is also paying attention to what is happening this game (even though he missed the RP obviously).

Obviously my read is also related to the previous game where I was scum with him. He was pretty much neutral all game and did not engage anyone, so for him to put himself out there and engage you of all people who is very vocal will certainly put at least some focus on him, something he has shown no interest in getting as scum.

I also believe his claim.

However with that said I am not sure I necessarily agree with his vote, I think it is coming from a slightly biased OMGUS point of view, but I do believe that believes what he is saynig

Thank you for the clear explanation.

Regarding him challenging me, I agree that it's a risky thing to do because most people know I won't back down. However, I'm not convinced that he wouldn't try it, specifically because I've seen him do it before. So I don't really consider it alignment indicative.

However, I do consider his plethora of OMGUS arguments to be at least slightly alignment indicative: starting with the passive suggestion D1 that Graeham and I were conveniently going after him, followed with his attempt at pushing Marack's death as proof I'm scum (even though he backed off of this argument, it still indicates to me that he had the intention of forcing logic against me from the beginning), and continuing with the various arguments that I'm lying or I've been trying to get him lynched all day, and finishing with the fact that me asking him questions justifies him voting on me. It's a string of forced logic that looks exactly like the naive attempt some scum would make to turn pressure against them into proof they're being hunted by scum.

On the other hand, he has done a few minor things that give me pause in my scum read on him. And I do believe his claim, though I'm somewhat skeptical that it's alignment indicative.

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It's really frustrating that Strikered seemed to put out a soft claim with a result on Graeham but didn't actually claim or put a vote out before disappearing, because who is to say he will show up before deadline now. I sincerely hope he does because I am really interested

At best, I attribute Strikered's actions as a shoddy attempt at pressure on Graeham. But without a followup, it looks bad and really amounts to nothing. I'm not about to lynch Graeham over what he's said.

It strikes me as incredibly interesting that Graeham seems to think you should have gotten something which you didn't get.

[Cruel2u]

Day two votes:

Zexism   : 1 Kryllian#192
Kryllian : 1 Dupti#198
Dendrek  : 1 Crackle#254
Strikered: 1 Grae#281

People Not Voting: 7- Danner, Dendrek, Listo, Lora, Strikered, Val and Zexism.

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

[Danner]

vote: Graeham

[Crackleslap]

Not much has happened since left, somewhat confused as too what this love triangle between Dupti, Strikered and Graeham is; but I'll wait until Strikered chimes in - or doesn't. That said I'm off too bed.

[Graeham II]

I dont think so, at least Cru did not tell me anything.

Well, you should have received either a beneficial item or a joke item. I wasn't informed of my action being blocked and I doubt there's more than one blocker in the game...and even if there is, Zexism claimed to be blocked and informed of such.

I believe Strikered is claiming that you visited Marack. @Strikered can you confirm this is the case? And why didnt you vote on Graeham then?

That's...very interesting, especially accounting for Marack's role. The wording of his role card suggests to me that he would draw any night actions to himself that were aimed at his chosen target. Yet not only did Strikered refuse to mention that he repeatedly ignored my questions about what exactly he was implying. I don't trust him one bit.

At best, I attribute Strikered's actions as a shoddy attempt at pressure on Graeham. But without a followup, it looks bad and really amounts to nothing. I'm not about to lynch Graeham over what he's said.

It strikes me as incredibly interesting that Graeham seems to think you should have gotten something which you didn't get.

Well, I'll claim in full if need be. Though Strikered backing off and refusing to elaborate really rubs me the wrong way. Did he back off because the disagreement between Crackle and yourself happened to occur at the exact same time that he abruptly claimed? Furthermore, going back a few posts before his claim he stated that he was 'catching up'. Which begs the question as to why he didn't mention it as of his first post.

He's also been very quiet and was set to be the one to be lynched by virtue of lurking if we couldn't find some other target to pressure today.

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vote: Graeham

I don't understand this. You've claimed, so far, to be reluctant to vote on me. You're also typically among the first to be analytical when chaos breaks out so I can't help but wonder why you're siding with Strikered when he has been so evasive and backed off the moment he was questioned about his contributions to the game.

[Alpharius]

I hope I am not clearing Crackle. I am reading crackle. That's a major difference. My logic is there, you disagree with it, or in your case, not.
Alignment does not matter (much) when it comes to logic-based reads. You go after the logic, the logic doesn't change regardless of alignment.
Are you confusing Crackle and Zexism? Because I am collaborating on Zexism, but not on Crackleslap.



Disagree that he didn't kill doesn't mean anything. I agree it doesn't mean he's not scum.
Many scum teams tend to send out the lowest key player to do the kill. That would in virtually all situations be Zexism, shouldn't it?
I would also add that if Graeham or Lora is scum, they would likely insist on doing the kill. If you or Dupti are scum, you would likely try to break that trend.
So yeah. not conclusive. But it's something. And that's what I am on. Something beats nothing.

I am semi-confirming Zexism's story, but it's not conclusive.

In Cruelle's last game were roleblocked players informed? Gonna have to check that up.



The most likely reason to deduce the game is filled with low-key TPR abilities isn't to be scum and somehow know it (rolecop?) - though that is possible indeed. The most likely reason to deduce this is if you read your rolecard and you see a power like the one Crackleslap had. I'd expect that to be the first reason to listen?

But yeah, I think this is for Zexism to answer. @Zexism; why did you so eagerly claim to be blocked?

--

Personally, I was hoping someone would claim to not be a TPR in the ensuring debacle. Val kinda did, but also didn't. Not sure I can use it.

Hey, I like dupti's playstyle, unreadable as it is. And if you noticed, I managed to mention everyone except myself. The game isn't that big.

--

Thinking about it, a scum rolecop seems likely given Marack's role. I again have to question why that or something like it is your first theory.

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Meh. Can't find anything on the blocking-notification-even-if-you-dont-have-a-informative-role angle.[/QUOTE]


Why did I claim it? To see what happens to a few certain players, but I just came back from work (where we have a strict data protection clause so I am not allowed to use a phone or private sites like this. Not that I could I don't know my mmoc login anymore since i logged into this 2 years ago)

Regardless you claim pink and people are interested, I wanted to claim that and wanted to see what happens. It happened and I can assure you that and I wanted to see if you were related to it as well from my pov.

I will now actually read the stuff that happened between me leaving for work and coming back now.

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the hell happend with my post i never talked about duptis playstyle

[Dendrek]

You quoted Danner, who happened to have messed up the forum syntax so incredibly that it incidentally messed with your ability to quote him.

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Why did I claim it? To see what happens to a few certain players[...]

Regardless you claim pink and people are interested, I wanted to claim that and wanted to see what happens.

So you claimed it because you were fishing...? Do you understand why I'm suspicious of you for claiming it? Also, I'm looking forward to your followup thoughts regarding everything that's happened until now.

[Alpharius]

You quoted Danner, who happened to have messed up the forum syntax so incredibly that it incidentally messed with your ability to quote him.

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So you claimed it because you were fishing...? Do you understand why I'm suspicious of you for claiming it? Also, I'm looking forward to your followup thoughts regarding everything that's happened until now.

I was fishing to see what people like kryallin would say yes. Of course I might have had other intentions, but you should be able to tell I am not going to forward them, aren't you?

[Dendrek]

I was fishing to see what people like kryallin would say yes. Of course I might have had other intentions, but you should be able to tell I am not going to forward them, aren't you?

Your evasiveness might be understandable if there was substance to it. I don't believe you have some grand scheme by saying you've been roleblocked. But you've mostly sidestepped the scrutiny you've received, and almost completely sidestepped everything else that has happened (at least, so far). There's almost no substance from you yet. And at this point I feel like that's intentional. But whether or not it's strategic, I do not believe it's beneficial to town.

[listo95]

Okay so far I feel like Danner is likely town due to their activity levels, yes metagaming but we all know what scum Danner is like. Dendrek/dupti I have a hard time reading without lynches occurring but I get the feeling they are at least town leaning right now. Graeham is kinda just chaos for now, Lora is Lora. I think those are my main reads so far today, when it comes to reading anyone as scummy I don't really have any yet.

[Kryllian]

Ok, I think I'm finally caught up on things. First off:

FOS: Dendrek, Listo, Lora, Strikered, Val and Zexism.

We are over 24 hours in and none of you have even bothered to vote anyone. Talk is all good but right now we have 5 trains running with one vote each. I'm tempted to add Danner to this list for creating that 5th train but he has an IC for today and so voting on him seems anti-town as it's a wasted day with many other options.

I will say I'm not a big fan of Danners posts at this point. His "I don't want to vote Dendrek but I think he's scum" isn't sitting well with me. If feels like he's either trying to distance himself from his buddy if Dendrek flips scum or he'll try to claim town points if he flips town. The fact that he keeps referencing it in multiple posts makes me think he's trying to leave a trail of hints for later in the game he use in his defense down the road. It's also possible he's with Zexism and this whole Pink thing is a ploy to bait people for lynch options. There's other issues I have with him at the moment but the IC really doesn't lend itself to full posting on it when there are others to discuss.

Lora has literally not posted a single thing of use either to post their ideas, question other players, or to help push the discussion. So..typical Lora. Doesn't given me town feels though not that they ever do.

Zexism - I'm still not a fan especially regarding the newest posts. Seems to be claiming the Roleblock claim was just fishing. It doesn't help they're trying to tie me back into falling for their fishing. I was pushing on the Pink angle that Danner referred to. Other than stating I didn't like they claimed quickly after 1 vote, I never pushed on the RB claim. Others have though.

This Strikered/Graham interaction has me a bit baffled. I again can't help but feel that Strikered is fishing or has a very vague hint with his night action (such as he saw Graeaham had an action, but doesn't know what it was or who it targeted.) But at the same time Graehams claim to giving an item seems odd. Then again Crackleslaps role of drug addicted alcoholic porn star....is just odd. Given this role heavy game I would expect people to also have watcher/tracker roles. That does lend itself to Strikereds accusation but doesn't necessarily equate to which faction he is with at this point.

That's all I have time for right now, off to another work meeting.

[Graeham II]

I'm inclined to believe Crackle's claim. My own role card also contains flavour text along those lines. In that...if I don't create a useful item for someone, they get a sex toy instead.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'm inclined to believe Crackle's claim. My own role card also contains flavour text along those lines. In that...if I don't create a useful item for someone, they get a sex toy instead.

Hm, in that case I will lay off of Crackle. For now.

Kryllian's callout has made me think he is slightly less likely to be scum, but I don't trust Zexism. As such:

Vote: Zexism

[Graeham II]

As an aside, I really don't like how both Strikered and Danner are ignoring my attempts to engage them. I'd like them both to respond as quickly as they reasonably can, rather than leave any heavy debate until later on the day phase.

[Alpharius]

Ok, I think I'm finally caught up on things. First off:

FOS: Dendrek, Listo, Lora, Strikered, Val and Zexism.

We are over 24 hours in and none of you have even bothered to vote anyone. Talk is all good but right now we have 5 trains running with one vote each. I'm tempted to add Danner to this list for creating that 5th train but he has an IC for today and so voting on him seems anti-town as it's a wasted day with many other options.

I will say I'm not a big fan of Danners posts at this point. His "I don't want to vote Dendrek but I think he's scum" isn't sitting well with me. If feels like he's either trying to distance himself from his buddy if Dendrek flips scum or he'll try to claim town points if he flips town. The fact that he keeps referencing it in multiple posts makes me think he's trying to leave a trail of hints for later in the game he use in his defense down the road. It's also possible he's with Zexism and this whole Pink thing is a ploy to bait people for lynch options. There's other issues I have with him at the moment but the IC really doesn't lend itself to full posting on it when there are others to discuss.

Lora has literally not posted a single thing of use either to post their ideas, question other players, or to help push the discussion. So..typical Lora. Doesn't given me town feels though not that they ever do.

Zexism - I'm still not a fan especially regarding the newest posts. Seems to be claiming the Roleblock claim was just fishing. It doesn't help they're trying to tie me back into falling for their fishing. I was pushing on the Pink angle that Danner referred to. Other than stating I didn't like they claimed quickly after 1 vote, I never pushed on the RB claim. Others have though.

This Strikered/Graham interaction has me a bit baffled. I again can't help but feel that Strikered is fishing or has a very vague hint with his night action (such as he saw Graeaham had an action, but doesn't know what it was or who it targeted.) But at the same time Graehams claim to giving an item seems odd. Then again Crackleslaps role of drug addicted alcoholic porn star....is just odd. Given this role heavy game I would expect people to also have watcher/tracker roles. That does lend itself to Strikereds accusation but doesn't necessarily equate to which faction he is with at this point.

That's all I have time for right now, off to another work meeting.

I didn't say it was just fishing, I said I am going to refuse to mention all my intentions though.

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I did not state that Pink was automatically incriminating. I did say though that it is worth exploring and by that I mean putting some pressure on you to explain it. Hence the vote. You don't pressure people without voting. I do find how quickly you were willing to provide some info after only one vote curious.

If Danner can confirm the Pink has a meaning in his rolecard versus simply the color that your role will have when revealed, such as Marack appearing blue, i'm willing to leave it alone for now and vote someone else. But barring that, the first inclination is that you will appear pink when Cru reveals your role card which means something other than town, usually third party role such as SK. Pink isn't a normal color for third party but Cru isn't a normal mod.

And on the unrelated note, no i still can't get rid of it. One suggestions I read was to turn off Javascript on your phone webbrowser but that screws up other sites I like to read on my phone vs on my work computer ... *grin*

Which I wanted to point out, you can't explore what the color pink means in any context. Only danner could, you used really baseless information (Zexism is pink) as a reason to push me, which once again how can I defend myself from being pink? Next day I am blue what does that mean to me?