[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Logwyn]

I too think it would be a grievous misstep to have Cersei outlive the NK.

As I see it, this is probably how it unfolds:

1. NK wins at Winterfell.
2. Survivors of the North fall back to the Iron Islands, where they defeat some last semblence of Euron trying to win back the islands from Yara.
3. Cersei is about to be beseiged after the NK runs rampant through the Riverlands. The Eyrie is relatively safe. She sends out ravens begging for help.
4. Jon is too good a person/Dany wants her throne/Tyrion and Jaime urge action, they come up thru Highgarden (maybe we join up with some Dornishmen?)
5. Jaime and Tyrion are sent to negotiate Cersei's surrender so they can adequately defend the city without worrying about her bullshit.
6. Cersei says, "I'm pregnant, it's yours, Jaime, I love you, join me, betray them!" Jaime looks at her funny.
7. Tyrion looks away because he knows what comes next.
8. Jaime moves in as if to kiss Cersei. He instead stabs her in the belly (or maybe intimates that he's gonna kill her), recognizing her madness and how she'd get everyone killed for some baby who she already values more than the rest of the kingdom.
9. As she's dying (or doomed to die), Cersei cries: "But the witch! She said my younger brother would kill me!"
10. Tyrion, ever the smartass, points out Jaime, while her twin, was born after her.
11. Jaime looks at her sad, and decides to end it quickly because he loves her too, saying......."The things I do for love."
FIN episode 5.

Episode 6: deal with the NK.

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As an aside, the "political storyline" in episode 6 will be between Jon/Sam/Sansa and Dany and her people, if she has any left by that point.

I keep wondering if there is a twist and Tyrion really isn't a Lannister. With all the screwing whoever we want it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't.

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Digging trenches, forging weapons, gathering troops, perhaps fighting a delaying action... yes. I did like the plot of Return of the King. Maybe they can’t do it cause budget, idk.

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Digging trenches, forging weapons, gathering troops, perhaps fighting a delaying action... yes. I did like the plot of Return of the King. Maybe they can’t do it cause budget, idk.

Twice you needed to post this?

[Celista]

I too think it would be a grievous misstep to have Cersei outlive the NK.

As I see it, this is probably how it unfolds:

1. NK wins at Winterfell.
2. Survivors of the North fall back to the Iron Islands, where they defeat some last semblence of Euron trying to win back the islands from Yara.
3. Cersei is about to be beseiged after the NK runs rampant through the Riverlands. The Eyrie is relatively safe. She sends out ravens begging for help.
4. Jon is too good a person/Dany wants her throne/Tyrion and Jaime urge action, they come up thru Highgarden (maybe we join up with some Dornishmen?)
5. Jaime and Tyrion are sent to negotiate Cersei's surrender so they can adequately defend the city without worrying about her bullshit.
6. Cersei says, "I'm pregnant, it's yours, Jaime, I love you, join me, betray them!" Jaime looks at her funny.
7. Tyrion looks away because he knows what comes next.
8. Jaime moves in as if to kiss Cersei. He instead stabs her in the belly (or maybe intimates that he's gonna kill her), recognizing her madness and how she'd get everyone killed for some baby who she already values more than the rest of the kingdom.
9. As she's dying (or doomed to die), Cersei cries: "But the witch! She said my younger brother would kill me!"
10. Tyrion, ever the smartass, points out Jaime, while her twin, was born after her.
11. Jaime looks at her sad, and decides to end it quickly because he loves her too, saying......."The things I do for love."
FIN episode 5.

Episode 6: deal with the NK.

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As an aside, the "political storyline" in episode 6 will be between Jon/Sam/Sansa and Dany and her people, if she has any left by that point.

He already knows the baby is his but I can see it going down this way.

I keep wondering if there is a twist and Tyrion really isn't a Lannister. With all the screwing whoever we want it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't.

I still think there will be some twist with Tyrion, or at least there should be based on the books. But I'm not sure there's enough buildup or time in the TV series for one. Based on the last episode I'm suspecting that any sort of buildup with Tyrion will somehow involve his marriage to Sansa.

[Ihavewaffles]

I think Jaimie will join the Night's Watch

[Ryme]

This could have easily gone to 10 seasons to actually play it out properly. Instead we got this rush job to cram everything into 6 "movie length" episodes. This show died after season 4.

I agree, but I take the show as a majestic cliff notes spectacle. In that, it's damn fine entertainment.

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I keep wondering if there is a twist and Tyrion really isn't a Lannister. With all the screwing whoever we want it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't.

There's a very popular fan theory on this that's been heavily hinted at in the show, some small Googles should point you in the right direction if you want to read more.

[Celista]

There's a very popular fan theory on this that's been heavily hinted at in the show, some small Googles should point you in the right direction if you want to read more.

You mean, the Tyrion-is-a-secret-Targaryen fan theory? It's barely been hinted at in the show. I hope that it makes it in, not sure there's enough time or buildup for it.

[Beazy]

Frickdoor, the leaker on r/freefolk, says that Tyrion is part of a "grand betrayal".


His leak of 08-01 was pretty spot on, so I have no reason to think hes lying. Plus HBO had youtube remove his spoiler video. The only spoiler video to be removed.

[Isilrien]

I think Jaimie will join the Night's Watch

Even though the wall is down and there is no longer a need for the Night's Watch?

[Logwyn]

Yes, that was TOTALLY on purpose. Haha... anyway just time to wait for this week’s episode now.

Got so used to watching on HBO GO...the week wait is killing me!!!

[Sooba]

The Mountain's acting was amazing as usual. Also wondering if Jon is supposed to be immune to fire. Wouldn't that be something a person discovers growing up? Wonder if that's ever going to come up in the later episodes.

Requisite "Targaryens are not immune to fire" disclaimer.

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There's a very popular fan theory on this that's been heavily hinted at in the show, some small Googles should point you in the right direction if you want to read more.

I covered it extensively in this thread.

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I keep wondering if there is a twist and Tyrion really isn't a Lannister. With all the screwing whoever we want it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't.

Tyrion is the son of Mad King Aerys and Joanna Lannister.

[crusadernero]

Why doesn't Bran just warg into his legs and walk again?

hahaha this made me laugh so much!

The first episode was ok enough, but I fear we wont get the answers we want. Since its only six episodes im already stressed about it. I also fear they will rush several things and leave out several plot holes. Whats really the deal with Arya and the faceless? can she do it whenever she wants without concequenses? Since the faceless is active, who is who and is everyone the real person?

I also fear that the fight against the NK will end quickly and in some moronic way. I mean, the NK got this massive army and magic abilities and the north got two dragons and a OKish army.

Episode two will probably be jamie/dany/Sansa drama for 98% of the episode. last two % we see that winterfell preps for fight. End credits.

[jimboa24]

I know of course it won't be, but this should be the new theme music for the White Walkers and their army:

[Thereturn]

Why doesnt bran warg in both dragons and doubledutch the night king sucker.

[Sooba]

Not all Targaryens were able to ride dragons, however. Just because you were Targaryen didn't mean that riding a dragon was automatic. Martin's latest book discusses this.

Irrelevant to the point he was making.

[Isilrien]

Irrelevant to the point he was making.

It's not irrelevant. Jon riding Rhaegal doesn't definitively prove that he is Targaryen.

[ohiostate124]

Requisite "Targaryens are not immune to fire" disclaimer.

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I covered it extensively in this thread.

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Tyrion is the son of Mad King Aerys and Joanna Lannister.

Nah, Tyrion is Tywin’s true son. I always thought the Jaime and Cersei are secret Targs theory was better although i don’t remember if the timing works.

[Sooba]

Nah, Tyrion is Tywin’s true son. I always thought the Jaime and Cersei are secret Targs theory was better.

Just because you "thought" it was better doesn't make it true. And in this case the circumstantial evidence makes it impossible for Jaime/Cersei to be Aerys' children. Joanna was in CR for >2 years before their conception, and Aerys didn't go anywhere near CR in that time. Ergo, he cannot be their father. Joanna was in KL for the 10yr coronation tourny ~8 1/2 months prior to Tyrions birth. Ergo he can be Tyrion's father.

Not conclusive evidence for Tyrion of course (there's lots more for that in this thread that I went over), but it eliminates Jaime/Cersei entirely.

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It's not irrelevant. Jon riding Rhaegal doesn't definitively prove that he is Targaryen.

---EDIT: I see in rereading the thread you've actually gone back to your previous post 5 days later and edited it in order to preclude this particular criticism. Sneaky, but much better.---

His point is that anyone who has ridden a dragon has been a Targaryen (with one exception with extensive extenuating circumstances that you've actually not even talked about, but I digress.) ie. being Targ is a necessary requirement to ride a dragon and therefore to ride one proves Targ blood. Your two attempts at disproof have been:

1) Sheepstealer not being tamed - Irrelevant. He didn't claim that all dragons would be tamed by Targaryens. He said that being Targ was a requirement for riding. Two very different things.

2) Not all Targs ride dragons - Again irrelevant, as his claim was that it was necessary to be a Targ in order to ride, not that being a Targ was a guarantee to ride. Again two very different things.

To put it in more abstract terms. He claimed "p" is necessary for "q". You got that confused with p is sufficient for q. A common logical error, and something he never claimed. You thus have made two logically irrelevant arguments that have been true, but trivially true and have not actually addressed his claim. You have successfully argued that "not all dragons are ridden", and that "not all Targaryens are riders." You have not successfully argued that "not all riders are Targaryen."

[ohiostate124]

Just because you "thought" it was better doesn't make it true. And in this case the circumstantial evidence makes it impossible for Jaime/Cersei to be Aerys' children. Joanna was in CR for >2 years before their conception, and Aerys didn't go anywhere near CR in that time. Ergo, he cannot be their father. Joanna was in KL for the 10yr coronation tourny ~8 1/2 months prior to Tyrions birth. Ergo he can be Tyrion's father.

Not conclusive evidence for Tyrion of course (there's lots more for that in this thread that I went over), but it eliminates Jaime/Cersei entirely.

Never said it did. Relax buddy. There’s plenty of lines in the books that support it though. Its more likely thought that none of them are secret Targs though. All these secret Targaryens would be lame.

[enigma77]

Tyrion not actually being Tywin's son would be a bad revelation as it would make Tywin seem less cruel. A part of what makes Tyrion and Tywin's relationship interesting is the evil contempt that Tywin has for his own son.

[Sooba]

Never said it did. Relax buddy. There’s plenty of lines in the books that support it though. Its more likely thought that none of them are secret Targs though. All these secret Targaryens would be lame.

I'm quite calm. Don't assume that because someone is disagreeing with you that they're upset. :P

The information I gave you is from the books, specifically AWoIaF. It is conclusively disproven that Cersei/Jaime are Aery's children. As for "lame"ness, I've got news for you. There's seven important characters with varying amounts of Targaryen blood where that Targ relation has a significant impact on their story or motivations. We're outright told this by Moqorro. To think a long-standing powerful family with multiple historically profligate members wouldn't have all sorts of extra scions is rather shortsighted.

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Tyrion not actually being Tywin's son would be a bad revelation as it would make Tywin seem less cruel. A part of what makes Tyrion and Tywin's relationship interesting is the evil contempt that Tywin has for his own son.

I dealt with this far earlier in the thread. All these complaints ultimately don't hold up under scrutiny.

[ohiostate124]

Nice edit on your previous message, adding in the "but I don't remember if the timing works" after the response showing the impossible timing was already written. :P Incidentally, I'm quite calm. Don't assume that because someone is disagreeing with you that they're upset. :P

The information I gave you is from the books, specifically AWoIaF. It is conclusively disproven that Cersei/Jaime are Aery's children. As for "lame"ness, I've got news for you. There's seven important characters with varying amounts of Targaryen blood where that Targ relation has a significant impact on their story or motivations. We're outright told this by Moqorro. To think a long-standing powerful family with multiple historically profligate members wouldn't have all sorts of extra scions is rather shortsighted.

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I dealt with this far earlier in the thread. All these complaints ultimately don't hold up under scrutiny.

Nice try bud but your response wasn't written yet.

As far as world of ice and fire goes, a lot of people have issues with the timelines that book introduced.