Mafia 116: Death Valley

[Danner]

Sorry, been away most of the afternoon.
@Graeham II: My vote on you is based on how I interpret Strikered's question of your whereabouts last night, followed by your vote on him. It's at an impasse until further clarification. I fully believe you gave something to Dupti, as you claim. The question is really whether you did something else to Marack or not. Until strikered chimes in, that's essentially where we stand. Not much I can get from you here. You need the accusation before you can hear the defence after all.

If Strikered debunks such notions as nothing but a test, I am gonna vote elsewhere.
@Zexism: My entire read on you has been based on the assumption that you would be the type of person person whom scum would be likely to send out for a NK. Dendrek punched a hole in that assumption with information I was not aware of - or maybe I was and just forgot at some point. I'm honestly not sure what to believe anymore as a result - apart from this: I still believe you did not kill Marack.

I would like you opinion on Dendrek as well. Meme theory aside, I am reading him as contrarian - casting doubts for the sake of doing so - rather than trying to be helpful. But I also strongly believe he would not do that, with such blatancy, as scum. Dupti convinced me whether that read is correct or not was not something I could really determine at this point, and I will adjust the course accordingly. But I'd like your take on that as well.

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And, for the de-confusion of it - Zexism is pink.

There is not more info to be had in that statement. I am not accusing anyone of anything; only mentioning a color.
I put it out there in case I die, and I will likely put more info out tomorrow morning as well (if I'm still alive). My rolecard will show what the color means. I assume it will be posted.

If there was more information about it, I would give you the full info. Right now, there is none.

[Alpharius]

Sorry, been away most of the afternoon.
@Graeham II: My vote on you is based on how I interpret Strikered's question of your whereabouts last night, followed by your vote on him. It's at an impasse until further clarification. I fully believe you gave something to Dupti, as you claim. The question is really whether you did something else to Marack or not. Until strikered chimes in, that's essentially where we stand. Not much I can get from you here. You need the accusation before you can hear the defence after all.

If Strikered debunks such notions as nothing but a test, I am gonna vote elsewhere.
@Zexism: My entire read on you has been based on the assumption that you would be the type of person person whom scum would be likely to send out for a NK. Dendrek punched a hole in that assumption with information I was not aware of - or maybe I was and just forgot at some point. I'm honestly not sure what to believe anymore as a result - apart from this: I still believe you did not kill Marack.

I would like you opinion on Dendrek as well. Meme theory aside, I am reading him as contrarian - casting doubts for the sake of doing so - rather than trying to be helpful. But I also strongly believe he would not do that, with such blatancy, as scum. Dupti convinced me whether that read is correct or not was not something I could really determine at this point, and I will adjust the course accordingly. But I'd like your take on that as well.

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And, for the de-confusion of it - Zexism is pink.

There is not more info to be had in that statement. I am not accusing anyone of anything; only mentioning a color.
I put it out there in case I die, and I will likely put more info out tomorrow morning as well (if I'm still alive). My rolecard will show what the color means. I assume it will be posted.

If there was more information about it, I would give you the full info. Right now, there is none.

Danner I have a very distinct scum game which I can in fact prove with past games, if you want to, but I don't want to swing the meta bat right now.

Yes Dendrek might be right I am the most experienced player and let me say this, if I were scum I would send out the player I would assume to be in the best position to do the night kill and I have to agree in this day 1 it would never be me who would do the nightkill for scum unless I was somehow able to pinpoint roles day 1 (which quite frankly is my biggest weakness as mafia, I can't do role reads at all)

regardless here is my take

danner vs dendrek: very likely v/v due to interactions and arguments used. I believe danner having his role and his arguments make sense from his point of view where he is town and the informations and reasonings used by his own experience. Now dendrek seems to like playing devils advocate, but it's personally a point I like to take as town as well and if he is scum trying to bury me here then he is doing me pretty dirty because his posting was pretty slick. Regardless there is a lot of confidence in dendrek's post and a lot of points especially regarding offhand knowledge I would expect a villager to remember more often than a scum (as scum wouldn't even need to delve that big for reasons to disagree, they just need to fake relatively easier reads most of the time and coordinate the push properly)

kryallin (i hope i got the name right this time): Is pretty much a paragon of opportunism who actually didn't properly memorize the information given to him about what pink even is and instead used it for his own agenda. Quite frankly at which point could the color pink be important to this day now. In fact 90% of the game could be pink. It's like saying "I got a pear when i checked person x" in itself what does the pear tell you? Nothing exactly. Now you might say pushing the person might give you info what the pear could mean, but here is the thing. Kryallin himself didn't actually bother engaging me that much. I can't argue against the fact that I am apparently pink which I find to be the core of the push.

In fact if I get pushed for being pink, what could my response be outside of "probably I guess?". I am given an attack which I quite frankly can't defend from as there is no actual argument at place. There is a fact, but the fact in itself has no actual meaning as of now.

Graeham: I quite liked Graeham doing his own thing, it shows a towny attitude of trying to solve the game getting it to move on. In fact I'd imagine scum would be trying to take advantage of the situation and I saw graeham the most at least from what I inferred to rather solve the game on his own terms.

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regardless @Danner

you shouldn't take my roleblock claim as clearing, I could very well be the scum rolecop or something along these lines who wouldn't perform the night kill anyways. It's just something I wanted to throw out there as elusive as I make my reasons to be.

[dupti]

Zex could you please reply to this

@Zexism, how do you know you were roleblocked? Did you receive a message or did your night action simply fail?

[Kryllian]

kryallin (i hope i got the name right this time): Is pretty much a paragon of opportunism who actually didn't properly memorize the information given to him about what pink even is and instead used it for his own agenda. Quite frankly at which point could the color pink be important to this day now. In fact 90% of the game could be pink. It's like saying "I got a pear when i checked person x" in itself what does the pear tell you? Nothing exactly. Now you might say pushing the person might give you info what the pear could mean, but here is the thing. Kryallin himself didn't actually bother engaging me that much. I can't argue against the fact that I am apparently pink which I find to be the core of the push.

You keep trying to frame my vote and questioning as simply opportunistic. It was the 6th post after the start of the day and all I said was it was worth exploring. Voting puts pressure on people. If all I did was say "What does pink mean Zexism?" you'd either ignore it or give it a half assed answer (which is what you did anyways). If Danner didn't think it was worth sharing why did he post it to begin with? If he thought is was worth posting then it's worth digging into.

The only reason I haven't changed my vote at this time is I still think you're as good if not a better option than some of the other trains we have going.

[Alpharius]

Zex could you please reply to this

I know it failed as nothing happened

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You keep trying to frame my vote and questioning as simply opportunistic. It was the 6th post after the start of the day and all I said was it was worth exploring. Voting puts pressure on people. If all I did was say "What does pink mean Zexism?" you'd either ignore it or give it a half assed answer (which is what you did anyways). If Danner didn't think it was worth sharing why did he post it to begin with? If he thought is was worth posting then it's worth digging into.

The only reason I haven't changed my vote at this time is I still think you're as good if not a better option than some of the other trains we have going.

Danner thinks it's worth sharing, but we can't dig into what Pink is, is the point. If you call this half assed, but what does me being pink actually tell you outside of me being pink and me saying "yeah i guess"

I will wait, because your digging into didn't have any alignment relevant point to the vote

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I know it failed as nothing happened

That doesn't mean you were roleblocked; you could've hit a vest or a protected target.

[Danner]

@Zexism.:Thanks.

I am not used to seeing the side of Dendrek that does the whole devil's advocate. Because he's technically right in a lot of his counterpoints, it's just that I read it as pedantic. The dissent we have on whether you are scum or not, for example.

My premise: I believe Zexism didn't kill last night.
Dendrek's argument: that means nothing.

Strictly speaking, he is right. But it still means you're less likely to be scum. If nothing more based on the math that if there are hypothetically 3 scum, you're not the specific one that did the kill. You certainly could be one of the two others. In terms of pure percentages, it's means I cleared you as being one of three scum. It is as good a town lean I can have. And he's dismissing that logic. It doesn't sit well with me.

And yet, we're down to semantic discussions in the aftermath of that discussion. Now, he did have a point, none of them objections he's made are technically incorrect, but they are making us further away from a result. The biggest thing I believe he's right about is that I made a wrong premise. Thank you for pointing that out, Dendrek, and I will add that his input here was very constructive.

Nonetheless, the biggest takeaway is that he's being overtly pedantic. I'm not at all used to that side of Dendrek. I expect Dendrek to play the same game, town or scum. This is different.

My empathic center is screaming that he's town at this point. Because I expect Scum Dendrek to NOT want to play the game differently. But he is. Does that mean something? No. If I know that scum dendrek won't play different from town dendrek, that knowledge means nothing once I have it confirmed he's playing differently. If A implies B, then I don't know if B implies A. All I can say is that he's not playing differently because he is scum. It could be anything from him being in a different mood, or just wanting to play something differently. I can't read anything about his allegiance from it.

And yet, I can rationalize that Dendrek Scum Dendrek would be very conscious about any playstyle changes, and should avoid doing them. So that means I still have to give him that town read. Based on the fact that he's doing what I overall consider scummy play. taking a step back, the entire situation is silly, and I lost track of how many layers of wifom I'm down on at that level of read. Yet I kinda like it, while having such a hard time convincing myself of it.

Your read as this as town-vs-town bickering is helpful helping that aspect. A lot.
TLDR: I am not convinced Dendrek is town, but I really should stop chasing Dendrek.

---

Though, I will obviously say that he's still scum in my meme-filled reality bubble, and I will blame the mandela effect if Cruelle disagrees.

[Kryllian]

Danner thinks it's worth sharing, but we can't dig into what Pink is, is the point. If you call this half assed, but what does me being pink actually tell you outside of me being pink and me saying "yeah i guess"

I will wait, because your digging into didn't have any alignment relevant point to the vote

It is absolutely worth digging into and asking questions about when we have nothing other than one death to base any conversation on. If you tied "pink" to meaning you're not town aligned it might have caused you to trip up in one of your responses and then the questioning is worth i. If nothing else it started a conversation. It got you to state you believed you were role blocked which tells us you have an action and brought out conversations with others that lead to the realization that this is a role heavy game and there are probably no Vanilla Townies which means we have to expect everyone has some sort of action.

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That doesn't mean you were roleblocked; you could've hit a vest or a protected target.

What makes you so sure Zexism's action is a kill? That is what you're implying with the comment about a vest or a protection.

If his action failed, depending on what it is there are a number of things that could have happened. He could have been roleblocked. He could have been redirected to Marack who was dead causing the failure. He could have targeted a jailed player. If he's a tracker his target could have a passive night action like PGO which caused no results.

[Graeham II]

Sorry, been away most of the afternoon.
@Graeham II: My vote on you is based on how I interpret Strikered's question of your whereabouts last night, followed by your vote on him. It's at an impasse until further clarification. I fully believe you gave something to Dupti, as you claim. The question is really whether you did something else to Marack or not. Until strikered chimes in, that's essentially where we stand. Not much I can get from you here. You need the accusation before you can hear the defence after all.

If Strikered debunks such notions as nothing but a test, I am gonna vote elsewhere.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

[Strikered]

Last Activity Today 03:43 AM

:thinking:

far too much time on your hands, did I just walk away and leave myself logged in yes. does it auto log me out...yes ....i mean wow

[Graeham II]

far too much time on your hands, did I just walk away and leave myself logged in yes. does it auto log me out...yes ....i mean wow

Why did you choose to respond to that, in particular, rather than other more important questions that others and myself have sent your way? Furthermore, the last activity timer doesn't update for no reason and it updated just over thirty minutes after you claimed to be heading off to bed. You were very likely to be keeping up with the thread to see what happened in the aftermath of...whatever it is you were trying to accomplish.

[Strikered]

Why did you choose to respond to that, in particular, rather than other more important questions that others and myself have sent your way? Furthermore, the last activity timer doesn't update for no reason and it updated just over thirty minutes after you claimed to be heading off to bed. You were very likely to be keeping up with the thread to see what happened in the aftermath of...whatever it is you were trying to accomplish.

readin the thread one thing at a time and whateva sister you know what they say about people with paranoia

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oh btw

Vote: Graeham II

reasons will follow

[Graeham II]

Paranoia is healthy when you're deliberately being dense. You don't have any valid reason to vote on me and you couldn't even come up with a coherent reason at the time of posting. You have frequently vanished for large stretches of time during these games and I don't doubt that your inactivity would have seen you lynched today if not for your not so subtle attempt to frame me today.

Now, given my role I don't doubt that if it were discovered then scum would be willing to sacrifice one of their own in order to get rid of me rather than risk valuable powers being handed out at night. I also don't doubt that the individual being sacrificed for such a cause would align with the lowest active player on the scum team.

[Strikered]

ok so in this small game not only did Zexism get roleblocked but Graeham did too in one night I dont frickin think so sunshine

it's seems someone is lying

and whilst i dont want to claim yet

it does seems some players are better at dot to dot puzzles than others

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Paranoia is healthy when you're deliberately being dense. You don't have any valid reason to vote on me and you couldn't even come up with a coherent reason at the time of posting. You have frequently vanished for large stretches of time during these games and I don't doubt that your inactivity would have seen you lynched today if not for your not so subtle attempt to frame me today.

Now, given my role I don't doubt that if it were discovered then scum would be willing to sacrifice one of their own in order to get rid of me rather than risk valuable powers being handed out at night. I also don't doubt that the individual being sacrificed for such a cause would align with the lowest active player on the scum team.

it's called having a full time job and a family

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i do these things so i can by shit

[Graeham II]

To my knowledge, I didn't get role blocked. I targeted Dupti and attempted to give him an item. Now, that means that Dupti could be lying in an effort to see me lynched but I don't believe that to be the case as even if he were scum, it'd be of benefit for him to try and bait further items from me later on in the game. Or just play along and hope to off me at night.

If there's one thing I dislike, it's being a TPR. I've expressed such a sentiment many times in the past. I dislike the pressure involved. As scum, or a VT, I can do as I please for the most part.

[Dendrek]

ok so in this small game not only did Zexism get roleblocked but Graeham did too in one night I dont frickin think so sunshine

it's seems someone is lying

and whilst i dont want to claim yet

it does seems some players are better at dot to dot puzzles than others

If you saw him visit Marack, there's no reason for you not to say that.

[Strikered]

not shifting my vote

I do believe some of the analysis of my posts have been utter BS

I am not sure really what else there is to say I have a Job it's how i pay my mortgage, my sudden absence in the thread is indicative of my play in literally every game I have played in the last 4 years. I know this because I haven't changed jobs in 10 years and been doing my current shift pattern for the same time, now granted there was a few times when i was able to post at work but thats rare i must say

[Lora]

i found out who the doctor is so theres that. my role is a hugger. pretty fucking hilarious.

[Strikered]

Vote: Strikered

I was already planning on throwing a vote his way due to his track record of low activity, though his unprompted claim and refusal to answer my questions when prompted is too much to ignore. He seemed to be about to make some sort of odd play at my expense only to back off due to the Crackle and Dendrek tension firing off at the exact same time.

yeah this just reeks of scum imo

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I would love for this to be OMGUS but the evidence is stacking up against you

[Lora]

i mean i could tell you guys who it is but somehow i dont think i should. idk feeling cute might go chaotic shenanigans later.