[Ret] Fix my DPS!

[killwithpwr]

The T21 changes were drastic for RetPal, mostly when getting the 2p T21. Mastery was the (my) lowest priority stats, its now equal to Haste. The good news, is that we have great pieces to pickup in the raid to get more mastery, except the Eonar ring, because its the BiS for almost every classes so its gonna take some times to get it. I switched my Vial/Cinder trinkets for the Claw (Versa+proc dmg) and the End boss trinket (Str+fire proc + stats proc) and its working fine. I miss the cinder for the dmg, but the claw is doing ok to compensate. But IMO, any highlvl (940+) Flat stats Trinket (Hate/Mastery) can do it to ajust your stats.

Greater Judgement is a must with the 2p T21, paired with Blade of Wrath, even for AoE. The dmg from Judgment is glorious (gotta be carefull now on pull, as that 2M-3M crit on pull might get you 1shot if you're a little faster than your tank).

I dont have my 4p T21 yet (we distribute Tier Set item to priorise 2p for all, then we go 4p for all... slower but more equilibrated). So I still dont know how the lost of the 4p T20 will play, but we'll see.

I have 27% crit (down from 31%), 26% haste (down from 31.5%), 48% mastery (up from 20.5%) and 13% Versa (similar to before) with my current gear. Im aiming for a minimum of 25% Crit, 31.5% haste (GCD capped for Judgement window, but at the moment I can deal fine with a little bit lower), Mastery as no cap at the moment (50% seems like a good start) and Versa doesnt matter much, but a little bit helps (like 8-10% base, but I'll go Crit > Versa).

Leg-wise, Im still using Liadrin ring+Belt. Once I get 30% haste and full t21, I'll try Highlord ring+ Cape.

Numbers are getting big with the RetPal, its juicy.

Dunno about you, but Vers is simming as my highest value stat at 15%, mastery is at 46%, haste and crit at 26-27ish.

Vers is a great stat, not to be underestimated.

Yeah, Ret is doing fine now. It is really fun to see our burat (3.5+mil on ST and 5-8mil on hectic AoE feels very rewarding)
And now that Crusade produces a bit less of our overall damage, im finding that on long fights i can do about the same as our shadow priest and fire mage... (not our Affliction... That shit is crazy)

Also, our newly recruited Resto Druid decided that since i give him Wisdom, he's dying on some fights for my logs... Its not been beneficial yet, but it's a kind gesture.

[Ravingmad]

Yeah Versa is still good. With all the +dmg% we get (from talents, artefact weapon), it still scale very well. Im just 950 at the moment (no luck on drops, vs a guildmate who is already 960+), so I dont know yet how my stats are gonna work off in the end. To balance things out. Im feeling good with my 13% at the moment (was 15% pre-Anthorius).

Currently Im craving for haste.

[Thrillhouse918]

So I've been perusing this thread for a bit. I was hoping I could get a little clarification (in general) - I know Sims let you know definitively.

Does 4pc t21 outperform 4pc t20+ 2pc t21 IN CASES WHERE the 4pc t20 is mainly 915 ilevel? I currently have 3 pc t21, all heroic.

At what point do I forsake t20 gear in favour of t21? Is it really Sim-dependent or is there a general rule of thumb?

Cheers

[killwithpwr]

So I've been perusing this thread for a bit. I was hoping I could get a little clarification (in general) - I know Sims let you know definitively.

Does 4pc t21 outperform 4pc t20+ 2pc t21 IN CASES WHERE the 4pc t20 is mainly 915 ilevel? I currently have 3 pc t21, all heroic.

At what point do I forsake t20 gear in favour of t21? Is it really Sim-dependent or is there a general rule of thumb?

Cheers

Allways sim dependant.

[Deleted]

Well, I dont know how to make my dps go higher... I got a lot of titanforg gear.. and mine dps so low comparing to other paladins lower ilvl ;/ What an issue ?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...LHiRCwDnMn4Pph

[Deleted]

My dps is really not consistent, sometimes it's all good and immediately after is really bad, i'm just not getting it

[Deleted]

ok finally we have activated the logs -.- i'm really struggling to have a solid performance since i play the new xpac, I'm missing something for sure, if you feel to help me please
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...1&difficulty=5

[Vordie]

ok finally we have activated the logs -.- i'm really struggling to have a solid performance since i play the new xpac, I'm missing something for sure, if you feel to help me please
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...1&difficulty=5

Generally speaking, there are a couple of issues. First and most important, your Inquisition uptime was 60% on Mother, 89% on Taloc. That's really, REALLY bad. If you can't keep it up for ~95% of the time, switch to Divine Purpose. You might also wanna make a weak aura to remind you when it's about to drop.

Another big thing is your holy power overcapping. There's no reason why you should ever go over 5 holy power. I know it's tempting to use that shiny Blade of Justice as it comes off cooldown with 4 holy power, but don't. Ever.

But, honestly, what I'm seeing is a LOT of mechanical mistakes, some poor talent choices (you chose Consecration for Zek'voz. Why?). Dying to Surging Darkness on Zek'voz is pretty unacceptable, for example.

Other than that, always be casting, don't leave your judgement and blade of judgement on CD for too long, spend your Holy Power and DO NOT OVERCAP. This is very important.

DPS will come with a bit of time (after you switch to Divine Purpose, and stop overcapping), it's basically muscle memory, especially for Ret. Focus on mechanics first.

[goldenguyz]

A guildie of mine seems to be doing comparably low DPS for his ilvl when looking at our other DPS. Any tips?

Here's some logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

His armory:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...rmoon/schavras
Keep in mind these logs are from the past 2~ weeks so his gear will have changed.

Thanks! ^^

[Michavelli]

Is HoW a must talent at the higher ilevels?

[capri sunset]

Is HoW a must talent at the higher ilevels?

It's a pretty significant loss to not have it, especially since most of the fights have adds to abuse mouseover hammer and snipe holy power. Blade of wrath *can* be used to play roulette with burst aoe like opulence, if you get the procs during the spawn you probably get an extra ds but that's pretty reckless in a situation where it would actually matter imo.

[xxcloud417xx]

It's a pretty significant loss to not have it, especially since most of the fights have adds to abuse mouseover hammer and snipe holy power. Blade of wrath *can* be used to play roulette with burst aoe like opulence, if you get the procs during the spawn you probably get an extra ds but that's pretty reckless in a situation where it would actually matter imo.

Not to mention exactly what you pointed out first, while a proc could be nice, tabbing off Opulence to a lower add, cast HoW, then continue DSing is more reliable than any RNG.

I’m confident that Hammer of Wrath is the best pick, but for the off-chance that maybe it’s not for your current build I’ll just reiterate the only reliable thing and tell you to just sim it. I know it may sounds like the experts are blowing off your question by saying this, but it really honestly is the best advice you can get for Retribution. Import your toon into Raidbots and sim your talents.

[Gloriandus]

I'm no expert, but looking at the Blockade fight:

His first use of Avenging Wrath is over 3 minutes into the encounter (which is also when Lust was used, once Laminaria is active), so his opener is completely off. Wake of Ashes isn't used until nearly 30 seconds into the fight.

His Righteous Verdict uptime is only 76% on a fight where you're in range to keep it up most of the time. There is some movement, but it's close quarters enough to where it should be buffed more than that.

He is spec'd into Divine Purpose, which makes consistent damage hit-or-miss, since it's proc-based. His Azerite gear has the Light's Decree trait, so he should be using Crusade instead of DP. He's also spec'd into Fires of Justice, which I'd bet is his lowest-simming ability on that row. It's likely that he's running with these talents for ease of gameplay.

A guildie of mine seems to be doing comparably low DPS for his ilvl when looking at our other DPS. Any tips?

Here's some logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

His armory:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...rmoon/schavras
Keep in mind these logs are from the past 2~ weeks so his gear will have changed.

Thanks! ^^

[goldenguyz]

I'm no expert, but looking at the Blockade fight:

Cheers dude

[Gloriandus]

Cheers dude

Also just struck me that he's immediately spending at 3 Holy Power. You want to have HP banked so that you're not always building from zero; that is, use HP builders unless you will overcap, then spend. Might point him to the Hammer of Wrath Discord, or Skeletor's guide here: www.retpaladin.xyz

[Kill Broccoli]

I'm no expert, but looking at the Blockade fight:
He is spec'd into Divine Purpose, which makes consistent damage hit-or-miss, since it's proc-based. His Azerite gear has the Light's Decree trait, so he should be using Crusade instead of DP. He's also spec'd into Fires of Justice, which I'd bet is his lowest-simming ability on that row. It's likely that he's running with these talents for ease of gameplay.

Blockade is one of the two fights where DP may be a valid choice since it's consistent damage from start to finish, very little movement so it can average out with the huge crusade burst.
For everything else crusade is pulling ahead. We're back to legion, megaburst and then nothing as default.

[Kisuke42]

Hello everyone, please take a look at my logs (Mythic BoD) and tell me where I can improve. Some early kills on the first few bosses are low due to me lacking in gear and dying here and there. I like you to look at my last 1-2 kills on each boss.

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...819300#zone=21
Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch.../kazzak/Miyaka

I dont have BiS gear but I feel like I am pretty close to it. I am aiming for high purple.
I also just discovered https://wowanalyzer.com/ that I will check aswell, but wanted to post here hoping I could get some insight.

Thanks

[capri sunset]

Hello everyone, please take a look at my logs (Mythic BoD) and tell me where I can improve. Some early kills on the first few bosses are low due to me lacking in gear and dying here and there. I like you to look at my last 1-2 kills on each boss.

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...819300#zone=21
Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch.../kazzak/Miyaka

I dont have BiS gear but I feel like I am pretty close to it. I am aiming for high purple.
I also just discovered https://wowanalyzer.com/ that I will check aswell, but wanted to post here hoping I could get some insight.

Thanks

Not too much time so I'll just say what sticks out. To me it looks like you're doing really quite well given your guild's kill times which is always going to be a bit of a limiting factor. The thing I would focus on most is how you need to play around your cooldowns considering fight mechanics and your kill times and the best way to do that is usually to look at how other logs with similar times do it.

So jadefire as it stands you could get 3 uninterrupted wings with using it after reaching the barrier instead of before, but even then is it worth it? When instead you can have 2 huge wings with cat spawns after 1st and 3rd multisided strikes/with late lust, assuming that pull lust was an accident. Also why you'll see a lot more DP on bosses with moments like this but gambling addictions aren't healthy, stay safe.

On Grong you kind of do the opposite, it seems like it's a good idea to delay wings for lust and it's good to think like that, but with 4:50 kills you absolutely have 3 full wings and more importantly your adds are spawning 20 seconds in, 2:20, 4:20 so it's a perfect line up.

If you really care about Opulence then DP and pray for proc city/pay your guildies to stop aoeing.

Conclave you play really well, just late 2nd pot, maybe some uptime as tanks move around.

Something else that's an easy couple hundred dps is just abusing shield of vengeance on cd when you can, people can call it degenerate gameplay but if you're exercising common sense it's fine. First boss for instance with unbreakable spirit you can use it prepull, have it break to cons/boss aoe and use it again later on, something to think about with kill times. You also ideally don't want to use it during wings since that's a dead gcd.

A relatively small thing is using the on-use trinket after full stacks on crusade or of course right away on burst aoe but you should have stacks for that already, and just remembering that it's off gcd so using it on a gcd that doesn't do damage or is low damage like crusader strike is a waste.

The timeline view on wowanalyzer is good for seeing rotation things, if you're really serious then record yourself and watch it back to see where you delay or drop gcds.

[Kisuke42]

Not too much time so I'll just say what sticks out...

Thanks for the detailed response.

Grong: so 3 wings better than 2 wings + lust?

Jade: Could you elaborate on the wing usage in this fight. I dont think I will go DP here. GM called lust on pull that one time for some reason.
When is a good time to lust on this boss?

Opulence: My guild lusts on the second wave of adds, is this standard? we kill the boss by the 4th or 5th (cant remember exactly). So is it better to use wings with lust or skip lust and instead use wing on the latest add wave (since I will have more stack from Opal gem). Also I will try DP here.

Conclave: We kill Gronk + Kimbul then lust Akunda. I either use my 2nd wings on Kimbul or hold it and use with lust on Akunda (about 1 min delay). Wich is better?

Rastakan: We CC the adds when they pop then 1 min later we lust and aoe them with boss. Again here either I use my 3rd wings on Rasta alone when phase 3 starts or I delay for about a min and use it with lust on adds. What do you think?

[capri sunset]

Grong: so 3 wings better than 2 wings + lust?

Yup, until your guild kills it around 4:30ish.

Jade: Could you elaborate on the wing usage in this fight. I dont think I will go DP here. GM called lust on pull that one time for some reason.
When is a good time to lust on this boss?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...818&target=110
So looking at this you can see the damage done to the cats, so roughly when they spawn, unfortunately here it looks like the lust on pull pushed the bomb phase early and delayed the spawn to about 1:05. In this case you would wings around 50 seconds in so it's up for cats but isn't clipped by the 2nd multi-sided strike, then again right after the 3rd multi-sided strike around 3:05 overlapping with 3rd cats spawn and you would even get most of a 3rd wings by the end - this is also something to think about with crusade/inq/dp since crusade is longer.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...818&target=146
And then in this fairly typical log with a close enough kill time where they could've chosen to use 3 wings but went with 2 we can see no early push so cats spawn at 45 seconds, wings up for that after 1st multi-sided strike. 2nd wings with the ideal lust to burn them down with everyone's cds also overlapping with 3rd cat spawns, huge huge damage.

Ultimately this isn't a 5k difference type of thing until your guild would be totally skipping your 3rd wings but it's just an example of the things to look for in a fight when planning cds.

Opulence: My guild lusts on the second wave of adds, is this standard? we kill the boss by the 4th or 5th (cant remember exactly). So is it better to use wings with lust or skip lust and instead use wing on the latest add wave (since I will have more stack from Opal gem). Also I will try DP here.

2nd is very standard, but your last kill had so much boss damage that you actually only got 2 sets, using wings as you did was correct not only because of opal but ruby is constantly stacking on the boss too, that's why longer kills here are insane and you'll see people wings 1st set, then wings 3rd set with boss at 150 stacks. Mind that's not a bad thing, it means your guildies are doing what they're supposed to.

Conclave: We kill Gronk + Kimbul then lust Akunda. I either use my 2nd wings on Kimbul or hold it and use with lust on Akunda (about 1 min delay). Wich is better?

Delaying just like you did, you never get 4 wings here and I don't think losing 3rd wings will be an issue anytime soon as the first 2 bosses will start dying faster as well.

Rastakan: We CC the adds when they pop then 1 min later we lust and aoe them with boss. Again here either I use my 3rd wings on Rasta alone when phase 3 starts or I delay for about a min and use it with lust on adds. What do you think?

You have to delay here not only because of dps but because it's the priority damage, I think this is just unfortunate until a shorter kill time.