[Megathread] PlayStation 5

[Remilia]

Except, like I said, outside developers probably won't bother. They're not making exclusives, they have to think of how it works on not only PS5 but also Xbox WhateverTheFuck and possibly PC and the Nintendo NextGimmick.

In general development is bound the lowest denominator

That matters not when they're using PS API to load in stuff.

[Onikaroshi]

That matters not when they're using PS API to load in stuff.

We can agree to disagree at this point. But at the end of the day, money talks, if MS rolls in with a lower price using regular SSDs it'll win the market if they play their cards right.

They almost did it already with the second gen they were a player, based off sony stumbles, and it looks like sony is poised to stumble again. Consoles main demographic is people who DON'T want to spend PC level prices.

[Remilia]

We can agree to disagree at this point. But at the end of the day, money talks, if MS rolls in with a lower price using regular SSDs it'll win the market if they play their cards right.

They almost did it already with the second gen they were a player, based off sony stumbles, and it looks like sony is poised to stumble again. Consoles main demographic is people who DON'T want to spend PC level prices.

The only thing you can really say to disagree is the pricing. I don't know what they're going to price it at, we'll find out, but you're basing a lot on nothing. You're just rejecting things we already know about software and hardware integration.

[Onikaroshi]

The only thing you can really say to disagree is the pricing. I don't know what they're going to price it at, we'll find out, but you're basing a lot on nothing. You're just rejecting things we already know about software and hardware integration.

Not really, I just don't see them making that big of a jump, at all. It's probably going to bite them in the ass too.

[Remilia]

Not really, I just don't see them making that big of a jump, at all. It's probably going to bite them in the ass too.

Again, that has to do with pricing, not to do with the capabilities of it, you're running around moving the topic around I have no idea what you want to focus on anymore.

[Onikaroshi]

Again, that has to do with pricing, not to do with the capabilities of it, you're running around moving the topic around I have no idea what you want to focus on anymore.

I don't seem them making use of nvme, I don't see it being worth it, sure they can prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

And Price IS THE BIGGEST point of any console debate.

[Remilia]

I don't seem them making use of nvme, I don't see it being worth it, sure they can prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

And Price IS THE BIGGEST point of any console debate.

Okay, good, focus on price then, not run around bringing random shit in. I'll just be waiting and seeing what their price is.

[Onikaroshi]

Okay, good, focus on price then, not run around bringing random shit in. I'll just be waiting and seeing what their price is.

And if it's under 500 I'll eat my words on it, but a lot of the other stuff from the leak is true soooo... not holding my breath.

[Tech614]

I don't seem them making use of nvme, I don't see it being worth it, sure they can prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

And Price IS THE BIGGEST point of any console debate.

Please educate me on what the actual price difference is going to be if sony chooses NVMe over SATA...

Because last I checked we don't really know that. It might not even be more expensive for them at all come Q2 2020(which is probably when they will actually start mass producing the consoles assuming holiday 2020 launch).

You seem to be falsely assuming MS can have a cheaper console just off of this one difference and I'm pretty sure that's not the case jack.

Like I said a few pages back this once again reminds me of the "GDDR5 is a mistake and they won't be able to get 8 GB" talks from initial PS4 talks. The back seat engineers where proven wrong then by Cerny... and will probably be proven wrong yet again.

[Onikaroshi]

Please educate me on what the actual price difference is going to be if sony chooses NVMe over SATA...

Because last I checked we don't really know that. It might not even be more expensive for them at all come Q2 2020(which is probably when they will actually start mass producing the consoles assuming holiday 2020 launch).

You seem to be falsely assuming MS can have a cheaper console just off of this one difference and I'm pretty sure that's not the case jack.

I mean, I get you arguing in here that the price may not be different between nvme and sata, with the other person arguing we won't see huge price drops, one of you is wrong.

Right now we're looking at almost 300 for a 1tb nvme and under 100 for a 1tb sata, that's the only information we have to go off of.

[Tech614]

I mean, I get you arguing in here that the price may not be different between nvme and sata, with the other person arguing we won't see huge price drops, one of you is wrong.

Right now we're looking at almost 300 for a 1tb nvme and under 100 for a 1tb sata, that's the only information we have to go off of.

Are you really trying to compare consumer grade prices in 2019 to manufacturer grade prices in mid 2020? That's what I thought, so yep you have nothing basically.

Like I said it's the 8 GB GDDR5 shit all over again. I'm sure random forum dudes and guys that "worked in tech support for 30 years" are more knowledgeable on the situation then the lead architect of the current market leader. Cerny was literally brought in after the PS3 so they wouldn't make dumb decisions on hardware ever again. He didn't make a mistake with the PS4, in fact he nailed it out of the park but let's just assume this guy is an idiot random posters on MMO-Champ are more knowledgeable on the situation then him.. lol

[Temp name]

Thing is if you're going to use the PS5 as the example you'll be comparing it to NVMe, if you want to compare it to SATA SSDs then that'd be a different thing.

They are, Cerny already noted it'll have more bandwidth than current PCs, which would imply NVMe + PCIe 4.0.

The lead architect of the PS5 already confirmed it has an SSD and given his wording on it it's 100% NVMe even though he didn't directly say it.

Literally "what" would be the description of this post.

Until it's actually announced to use an NVMe SSD, I'm not sold on the idea that it does..

[Remilia]

Until it's actually announced to use an NVMe SSD, I'm not sold on the idea that it does..

That's fair. I was taking the assumption it would be considering his wording.

On the DIY/consumer side cheapest NVMe (it performs... okay) to cheapest SATA doesn't have that big of a price difference, though it is a bit apples to oranges cause it's comparing QLC to TLC. Intel 660p 1TB costs $109 where as 1TB MX500 is $115, though I think some SanDisks are going for like $100. Samsung's SATA QLC (only other QLC bar Crucial and Intel) are $115 for 1TB. Don't like using Samsung for price comparison cause their SSDs typically are a bit more expensive relative to others. Though QLCs probably are the best case for consoles cause it doesn't write data a lot, terrible write speed/endurance (granted you're not doing video editing or anything so it should be fine).

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, I get you arguing in here that the price may not be different between nvme and sata, with the other person arguing we won't see huge price drops, one of you is wrong.

Right now we're looking at almost 300 for a 1tb nvme and under 100 for a 1tb sata, that's the only information we have to go off of.

Not really how it works, I've been saying price will go down, I'm saying though it won't be as absurd as you think. You're also comparing NVMe to SATA where as in this case it should be NVMe to NVMe.

[Tech614]

Until it's actually announced to use an NVMe SSD, I'm not sold on the idea that it does..

It's announced it uses an SSD, and it's announced that SSD has a higher bandwidth then consumer SSDs going in PCs right now so...

It's basically announced. There is nothing to be "sold" on. Even the digital foundry guys literally took that as a confirmation of NVMe.

Let's not act like these are some random rumor mill points. Those statements literally came from Cerny himself.

[Squishy Tia]

Signed, someone with a shoddy HDR display.

Granted some games have better HDR implementation then others it is almost always a massive visual upgrade on a quality display.

Bloom and loss of detail is still a fairly prevalent problem with HDR. About the only displays that don't manifest these symptoms really are those using OLEDs. LCD based HDR still has the limitations of whatever local zone dimming can do for the display. And for some reason TV manufacturers are using fewer zones in 2018's models (and a lot of 2019's models too) than those from 2017. The fewer the zones, the less tightness of control the TV or monitor has for HDR. For sure HDR has more "pop", and you're right, displays do matter. But the only displays I've found acceptable so far are those using OLEDs, as those can be individually brightened or darkened.

If I could afford an OLED TV I'd get one now that I have a Yamaha CX-A5100 as my HT centerpiece (speakers powered by a Monolith M7X amplifier with the two RTi-A9s I have vertically bi-amped to give that power hungry bass array more juice since each line card in the amp puts out a full 200w separately). Of course my bigger problem will be finding a really good OLED TV in the 40-46" range, as it will also be my computer display too. I'll be happy once OLEDs come down in price so I can get one to mach my tastes (gaming first, movies second).

And yes, games either wow you or are "bleh". Witcher 3 is the latter as its HDR implementation does poorly on ground based objects. But at least CDPR put forth the effort to add it into a now four year old game. That's dedication.

You're kinda hopeful when 3TB HDDs are still $80+ after so long. It'll be cheaper but I'd imagine it more around 8c to 10c per GB for a cheap QLC NVMe at 3TB.

Unless you want absolute shit performance, you want to stay away from QLC, at least for now. It retains the fast seek times of SSDs, but is horrid otherwise. They're basically bargain basement "it's above a hard drive, but not really deserving of the SSD moniker" drives. I certainly wouldn't want one in a gaming machine. If they can manage to make it suck less on the R/W front before the PS5 launches, then it's possibly worth considering. Failing that, TLC for cheap, but still very decent endurance, and MLC (if still around by then) for extended endurance at a premium.

[Poppincaps]

I wonder if the PS5 will play PS4 games at a PS4 Pro level.

[Tech614]

I wonder if the PS5 will play PS4 games at a PS4 Pro level.

I would imagine that is a worst case scenario. It might very well support a "boost" mode like PS4 Pro does for unsupported games even and smooth out frame rates and run some games even better then the pro. But yea, worst case I would imagine baseline performance would be PS4 Pro equiv.

[Squishy Tia]

I wonder if the PS5 will play PS4 games at a PS4 Pro level.

If Sony can get AMD to somehow keep the GNM API functional that many PS4 games require, yes. The PS4's GPU is a mishmash of GCN 2 and GCN 4 architectures and features. With any luck, Navi is merely a massive superset of those features and can run the GNM API at a low enough level to provide performance enhancements or at least equivalent performance. If they can manage to keep GNM functional, Navi could well be far, far more powerful for PS4 games than the PS4 Pro is and actually provide at or close to stable 4k60 performance. Whether or not that'll be checkerboarding as is currently used or native 4k is unknown currently. One can hope, right?

[Shinzai]

On a side note, on drive prices, Sony will be more likely be paying $30 per drive, if the RRP is $120.

They'll be buying in bulk in a quantity of millions. You've got to remember that consumer prices are roughly 200%-400% over cost.

They're not going into PC World and clearing shelves.

[Temp name]

It's announced it uses an SSD, and it's announced that SSD has a higher bandwidth then consumer SSDs going in PCs right now so...

It's basically announced. There is nothing to be "sold" on. Even the digital foundry guys literally took that as a confirmation of NVMe.

Let's not act like these are some random rumor mill points. Those statements literally came from Cerny himself.

I just don't think it's realistic for them to have an NVMe SSD in all the units. It won't make sense for them. And until we see actual units out in the open, or actual specs for it, I'll still be skeptical. "higher bandwitdth than any SSD on the market" would make literally no fucking sense, since there's basically nothing that can max out current NVMe x4 SSDs, and if they, for some reason, went PCIe 4.0 instead of 3, that'd give them roughly double the bandwidth, and 0 gain in any task, including game load times..

It'll just make a lot more sense to go with SATA

- - - Updated - - -

On a side note, on drive prices, Sony will be more likely be paying $30 per drive, if the RRP is $120.

They'll be buying in bulk in a quantity of millions. You've got to remember that consumer prices are roughly 200%-400% over cost.

They're not going into PC World and clearing shelves.

And they won't be getting it for those prices either. They'll be getting mass discounts, obviously, but nowhere near just the materials cost. A lot of the price you pay is logistics in getting stuff sent to you, which Sony wouldn't have to pay, but they'd still have to pay the IP and R&D prices