Amazon’s Slow Retreat From Seattle

[apples]

If the business got tons of government assistance, then they owe something to the city plain and simple.

no. you cant force a business to operate.

does the government force you to show up to work or you go to jail?

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City officials just want more money for there own pockets. They could careless for the homeless, just look at California. The officials in Seattle would take there cut of the tax before helping the homeless.

are you implying that city officials should not be paid for their labor? are you a communist?

[Kokolums]

Property taxes. The employees own homes and they pay a ton in property taxes.

Seattle has a 10.1% sales tax on top of that.

I think I can confirm the property tax issue.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...h-is-too-much/

Property taxes on a median-value house in King County rose $800 compared with 2017, and are up 43 percent over the past four years. In addition to rising home prices and voter-approved levies, the Legislature’s move to fund schools to meet the Supreme Court’s McCleary ruling is the biggest driver.

The Seattle City Council is expected to adopt soon some form of head tax on employers grossing more than $8 million to $12 million a year. The money raised would go for additional spending on homeless services.

The council is also considering a special taxing district for a big swath of the central core. Property owners would be assessed for infrastructure needed to reclaim the waterfront when the Alaskan Way Viaduct comes down.

And don’t forget the income tax the council approved on wealthy residents last year. It’s probably a loser that will be found unconstitutional in Washington. But the effort is there.

[exochaft]

City officials just want more money for there own pockets. They could careless for the homeless, just look at California. The officials in Seattle would take there cut of the tax before helping the homeless.

That probably would be the unfortunate reality. At the very least, the money would probably be diverted to pet projects or pay off existing debts like pensions and whatnot. Besides, even if the money was supposedly for fixing homelessness, just throwing money at a problem is usually not the best answer or could just make the issue worse (especially if there is a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation).

I do find it humorous that some are calling this some right-wing issue when Amazon is an extremely liberal company headed by liberal executives, like most large companies and executives are. People never seem to notice how some major liberal companies get behind or are proponents of laws and legislation that supposedly crack down on 'evil companies', and these same companies (who are at fault of using the same tactics of the 'evil companies') and execs are in bed with the politicians proposing said laws and legislation. If you think that doesn't stink of cronyism somewhere, you'd be nuts. No company willingly hamstrings themselves by getting buddy-buddy with politicians passing the legislation that will hamstring them, whether they're at fault of 'evil' acts or not. In this specific case, I could definitely see this as cronyism gone bad, where the politicians are getting greedy and Amazon wants a new bed partner.

[Gsara]

The homeless would be the last group of people getting anything out of new taxes. You can bet your life that your city council will get raises though.

[PC2]

Seeing as Amazon paid negative fucking taxes last year, they should help out where ever they can. Fucking scumbags.

Again that happens all the time when there is a low profit period, carry over losses, selling assets at a loss, depreciation, etc.

[Ghostpanther]

Property taxes. The employees own homes and they pay a ton in property taxes.

Seattle has a 10.1% sales tax on top of that.

10.1% city sales tax? Here I thought our county sales tax of 7.5% was high. But I must say, I would rather see a high sales tax than a high income tax.

And any company which can make more profits by moving away, should do it. Common sense. Not like Amazon is in the charitable non profit business.

[Svifnymr]

So, are they getting poverty money from the government while making $15-$16 working for Amazon, or not? I did not see the answer in the link.

It's mostly due to part time employees vs full time employees. Cheaper to have 5 part timers than to have 2 full timers in most cases, but of course that's mostly going to be like warehouse help and stuff, minimal training entry jobs. So some of them probably do collect benefits. The flip side is, if you make it cheaper to have 2 full timers by taxing Amazon extra for having part timers, they'll just fire the 3 guys and have 2 full timers.

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10.1% city sales tax? Here I thought our county sales tax of 7.5% was high. But I must say, I would rather see a high sales tax than a high income tax.

And any company which can make more profits by moving away, should do it. Common sense. Not like Amazon is in the charitable non profit business.

Companies like Amazon seem pretty portable really. The warehouses/ shipping centers need to be centrally located to cover the US, sure, but the actual corp hq could be anywhere.

[breslin]

What Seattle doesn't get is all those Amazon employees make lots of money, web developers make six figure incomes right out of school for example. On all that money, taxes are taken out of Amazon employees pay checks.

So Amazon is funding a lot of Seattle city projects by paying their employees who pay taxes.

Those people live in Medina, which is like the Elysium of Seattle

[Kellhound]

So, are they getting poverty money from the government while making $15-$16 working for Amazon, or not? I did not see the answer in the link.

In 2017, Very Low Income (50% of median income) in King County was set by the federal government at $48,000 for a family of 4. $16 an hour comes to a little over $33k, which isn't much higher than the Extremely Low Income level of just under $29k. https://www.king5.com/article/news/l.../281-434107397 Anything under Low Income ($72,000 in King) is technically eligible for government assistance, they just dont have the money to give it out to everyone.

[Gestopft]

City officials just want more money for there own pockets. They could careless for the homeless, just look at California. The officials in Seattle would take there cut of the tax before helping the homeless.

The city council actually was going to implement a head tax on large businesses, but got cowed by Amazon et al and reverted it. The revenue was going to go towards homelessness- but Overlord Bezos threw a fit over what was going to amount to (roughly) a 25 cent per hour raise for all of his employees. In a city that had already raised the minimum wage to $15, mind you, so it's not like this head tax was in any way unaffordable.

[announced]

Seattle has the right idea. We should stop giving massive tax breaks to corporations like Amazon if they decide to dine and dash on their taxes when the check comes due.

The first step toward fixing this would be reforming the tax code to close all the loopholes so businesses like Amazon would still be required to pay some taxes based on their total earnings.
The next step is to figure out how to stop them from leaving the US - I don't know enough about what penalties would be crippling but maybe If they try to leave the US we should have executive power used to seize all their assets/businesses and subsidiaries or something else like that. If they stay they will need to pay some taxes at a reasonable rate.

[Eosia]

Businesses have the right to relocate, especially when the city/state is being hostile to them. Now if they were given tax incentives to be there, they should fulfill the requirement or pay back the money, then they can move on

"Tax Incentives" = Corporate Welfare

[Celista]

10.1% city sales tax? Here I thought our county sales tax of 7.5% was high. But I must say, I would rather see a high sales tax than a high income tax.

And any company which can make more profits by moving away, should do it. Common sense. Not like Amazon is in the charitable non profit business.

High sales tax is definitely the better alternative. Washington state has no income tax.

I grew up in Alaska, which I believe still has no income tax and no sales tax for most of the state. Tempted to move back for a lot of reasons but low taxes is one of them.

[zenkai]

"Tax Incentives" = Corporate Welfare

Which is often given because the tax revenue the company brings makes up for it.

[Rasulis]

Giving tax break to companies, if done right, could be a good deal for municipalities. Apple and Cupertino worked out a tax rebate deal in 1997, when Apple was in the middle of some extreme financial difficulties (You could buy Apple stock for less than $1 at the time). In 2018-2019, City of Cupertino revenue from Apple's direct sales tax alone was 25% of their budget. Which does not include their employees and subcontractors/subconsultants spending, increased property tax base, etc.

The problem is that most municipalities are ill equipped to negotiate with big companies which have a battery of lawyers. From personal experience, government employees are not the best negotiators. Plus, a lot of municipalities lacked the experience and bargained from a weaker position. Wisconsin and Foxconn deal is a perfect example. The State of Wisconsin was so eager for the deal, they did not bother to check Foxconn history nor double check the numbers before signing the deal.

[Zan15]

I'd like to source your source that people in Seattle making $15 and $16 per hour, are getting government benefits because they are considered poor!
It is what the guy I quoted is claiming.

15 dollars an hour = 31,200 / 12 = 2600 a month

Here is a short list just based on income

1- Pregnant women and spouse. Family of two income limits 2720 a month.

2- Family of 4. Income limits 2854 a month

3- Kids Medicaid. Family of 2 - 2952
3.5- Kids Medicaid. Family of 1 - Paying 40 dollars a month = 2706

4- Section 8 Family of 1 - Low income limit 46,100
4.5 Section 8 family of 2 - very low income limit 35,850

5. ACA subsidies Starting below 75k household income 2 people household.
(system down can't price out) -
(Punched into my state which is about the same FPL as Seattle/WA = eligible for an estimated $328.44 in tax credits per month. Plans start at 515.00 for individuals since the child will be covered under Medicaid)

6. Reduced school lunches. Family of 2 $31,284
7. The Child Care Assistance Program (CCAP) - Family of 2 - 2,745-4,116

Possible
Earned Income Tax Credit

Links to all the services.

https://www.washingtonconnection.org/home/

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Again that happens all the time when there is a low profit period, carry over losses, selling assets at a loss, depreciation, etc.

Its a broken tax law/loophole. Its even most likely the very reason why trump won't release his tax returns since his carry over's in real estate probably made it so he has not paid taxes in years.

Now imagine this --I have been running a low profit period for about 20+ years and have 25k in debt, so many of those years have been "losses".
I have sold cars (assets) at a loss and other assets have depreciated like my house, computer, car...etc

imagine if individuals got the same ability to write these things off.

Oh that's right, something like that would bankrupt the country so we can only allow corporations to do it then individuals will make up the difference

[Dald]

Again that happens all the time when there is a low profit period, carry over losses, selling assets at a loss, depreciation, etc.

They're not at a low profit period.

[PC2]

They're not at a low profit period.

Okay but they don't focus on profit anyways. They focus on growing the total sales and stock value.

[Vash The Stampede]

What does a business owe a city?

Should a business relocate for the cheapest rent or should a business stay and pay the city's homeless expenses?

Both. They have the right to relocate but also should be required to pay their fair share of taxes, which I heard Amazon paid nothing in 2018. We even paid Amazon tax money for some odd reason. No more socialism for the wealthy, you operate in this country then pay your taxes. They use the public roads, they use the public education, and they use our public mail delivery system. They benefited from America and should be required to pay their taxes.

I personally never use Amazon and would suggest other people to do the same. If they bail out then shop someplace else. I personally use Ebay a lot with a sprinkle of other online stores here and there. We need a day where everyone stopped buying off Amazon, and then we'll see how they like not paying their taxes.

[Dald]

Okay but they don't focus on profit anyways. They focus on growing the total sales and stock value.

That shouldn't exempt them from paying taxes.