Constantly retconning and ignroing former lore makes the story garbage

[alturic]

Not trying to be rude but for the lore nerds, I am curious, do you have problems with something like GOT, The Walking Dead, etc? Is it somehow specifically related to video games that have lore and the game doesn't follow the lore specifically?

Is there actually very few things that have lore behind them that the show/movie/game doesn't actually follow specifically? Perhaps if I cared more for lore I would... care, but I just never understood people who have a problem with lore and then a show/movie/game not following it. Perhaps it's a matter of me always thinking the show/movie/game took inspiration from previous history but it's still a new medium for telling the story.

[Beloren]

Not trying to be rude but for the lore nerds, I am curious, do you have problems with something like GOT, The Walking Dead, etc? Is it somehow specifically related to video games that have lore and the game doesn't follow the lore specifically?

Is there actually very few things that have lore behind them that the show/movie/game doesn't actually follow specifically? Perhaps if I cared more for lore I would... care, but I just never understood people who have a problem with lore and then a show/movie/game not following it. Perhaps it's a matter of me always thinking the show/movie/game took inspiration from previous history but it's still a new medium for telling the story.

I’ll be frank. If I knew the lore in the novels and books didn’t matter and wasn’t related to the game story. I’d never have brought them.

Some people enjoyed the story of Warcraft in the arts, played the MMO, because of this too. If the lore in the mmo wasn’t related I don’t thing I’d have bothered picking it up. I might have continued with the novel continuity, but be deeply dissatisfied that the games didn’t develop that story because it was the lore built up for the races and characters in the RTS and novels that won me over

[Lupinemancer]

Constantly retconning and ignroing former lore makes the story garbage

Blizzard is just trying to make you guys feel home

Infracted.

[Onvious]

Not trying to be rude but for the lore nerds, I am curious, do you have problems with something like GOT, The Walking Dead, etc? Is it somehow specifically related to video games that have lore and the game doesn't follow the lore specifically?

Is there actually very few things that have lore behind them that the show/movie/game doesn't actually follow specifically? Perhaps if I cared more for lore I would... care, but I just never understood people who have a problem with lore and then a show/movie/game not following it. Perhaps it's a matter of me always thinking the show/movie/game took inspiration from previous history but it's still a new medium for telling the story.

If warcraft 3 story/lore was a book instead of game I would never read that book because of writing. I liked warcraft 3 because i well played it. This is why i didnt care if the story was bad.

[Beloren]

Seige of Orgrimmar? Did you never complete that raid? He was there. We're specifically told he went on ahead to confront Garrosh himself. He was just unable to defeat an Old God Enhanced Garrosh.



Because that conflict was dealt with when Arthas fell.She was shown not only her fate, but the fate of her people too... extermination due to Garrosh's bungling. So she made the pact with the Val'kyr and returned.

She also had a shift in her thinking to. She once referred to her rangers as "Arrows in her quiver" when she sent them on a suicide mission to delay the Scourge in a failed attempt in bolstering the defenses of the Sunwell. She used the same terminology again to describe the Forsaken... arrows in her quiver that she will fire at Arthas.

Not so anymore.

"The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore."

She uses the same term regarding the nightborne when you are at the horde embassy.

[Justpassing]

Well, I wouldn't say... constantly.

[EbaumsTipster]

I'm starting to think that the devs consider the Story a "bonus" to the core game and that anyone who obsessively focuses on it isn't their target audience.

And I agree with them.

[Aucald]

I'm starting to think that the devs consider the Story a "bonus" to the core game and that anyone who obsessively focuses on it isn't their target audience.

And I agree with them.

I would agree with you if there hadn't been a concerted (as well as directly stated) push to increase the relevance of the story and narrative of the game using enhanced set-pieces and in-game cutscenes. It seems at cross purposes to outright say "we want more of the story to be evident in the game" while also viewing the story as a "bonus" supplemental to the gameplay concerns.

[Kokolums]

Not trying to be rude but for the lore nerds, I am curious, do you have problems with something like GOT, The Walking Dead, etc? Is it somehow specifically related to video games that have lore and the game doesn't follow the lore specifically?

Is there actually very few things that have lore behind them that the show/movie/game doesn't actually follow specifically? Perhaps if I cared more for lore I would... care, but I just never understood people who have a problem with lore and then a show/movie/game not following it. Perhaps it's a matter of me always thinking the show/movie/game took inspiration from previous history but it's still a new medium for telling the story.

I think people like the cohesive whole of a good 200 page novel where the characters are consistent and have story arcs.

Imagine if the Harry Potter films focused on the 3 kids in the first movie, then they focused on 2 adults halfway around the world in the second film, then on a couple farmers in the third film, then in the 4th film refocused back on Hogwarts but only on 2 of the 3 kids and their motivations have totally changed from film 1. Just hopping and skipping around with no rhyme or reason. Eventually you stop connecting with any of it because you just get left disappointed if you do.

[EbaumsTipster]

I would agree with you if there hadn't been a concerted (as well as directly stated) push to increase the relevance of the story and narrative of the game using enhanced set-pieces and in-game cutscenes. It seems at cross purposes to outright say "we want more of the story to be evident in the game" while also viewing the story as a "bonus" supplemental to the gameplay concerns.

Pushing for additional parts to a portion of the game =/= wanting that to be their focus. They outright say in press statements they don't listen to feedback for the story and they really do whatever they want without much care for how people react to the story. They straight up are tricking people and baiting them this entire expansion knowing full well they will get mad before the payoff.

Putting more effort into a segment of the game does not mean they care about lore diehards, hence why they aren't making sure that Tryande is around to whack Azshara. They really don't care about big LORE fans (see: Sargeras).

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

@ravenmoon

Its not that I think you are wrong or aren't worth reading, but damn, throw some section headings or something in these walls of text....

[iamthedevil]

Collaborative works can get messy. Especially when they are made like puzzle pieces but the pieces are slightly off.

[Aucald]

Pushing for additional parts to a portion of the game =/= wanting that to be their focus. They outright say in press statements they don't listen to feedback for the story and they really do whatever they want without much care for how people react to the story. They straight up are tricking people and baiting them this entire expansion knowing full well they will get mad before the payoff.

Putting more effort into a segment of the game does not mean they care about lore diehards, hence why they aren't making sure that Tryande is around to whack Azshara. They really don't care about big LORE fans (see: Sargeras).

I don't think that's what "not listening to feedback" means here. They've got a story they want to tell and they're going to tell it regardless of we want from from the story - and to a degree they're right, listening to tens of thousands of carping, disharmonious voices clamoring for varied and mutually exclusive versions of the story would be bad for the story as a whole. Novelists and authors don't change the story to suit their fandoms, either; rather the fandom grows up around the story and if it proves to be terrible then the fandom just sort of dries up.

That being said, if you're going to inflate the relevance of the story in any degree you need to ensure that its quality rises to match. That just seems like common sense to me.

[EbaumsTipster]

I don't think that's what "not listening to feedback" means here. They've got a story they want to tell and they're going to tell it regardless of we want from from the story - and to a degree they're right, listening to tens of thousands of carping, disharmonious voices clamoring for varied and mutually exclusive versions of the story would be bad for the story as a whole. Novelists and authors don't change the story to suit their fandoms, either; rather the fandom grows up around the story and if it proves to be terrible then the fandom just sort of dries up.

That being said, if you're going to inflate the relevance of the story in any degree you need to ensure that its quality rises to match. That just seems like common sense to me.

You're preaching to the choir, I agree one hundred percent. After the backlash in BFA I really think we'll be seeing a plot that's mostly just about the player character and a few lore figures as opposed to something this big, for the sole reason that it will anger less people (and therefore less investors).

It's easier to write less story than a good one.

[Beloren]

If warcraft 3 story/lore was a book instead of game I would never read that book because of writing. I liked warcraft 3 because i well played it. This is why i didnt care if the story was bad.

I was there too, but liking the game got me to liking the world which got me to liking the story. And I would watch a film, tv series, or read novels based on it if it was good. However there is too much crap mixed in with good stuff to care at all.


Why can’t their creative team be as diligent as their arts or systems team?

If gameplay or quest prigramming needs to make room to show and present the story better, you as creative director or team need to ensure it does. You have to insist, systems guys aren’t going to care much, nor are arts guys. They will make noise about their stuff being done well, you have to ensure resources are available to do the job.

If the blood elves doing the unexpected of joining the horde, or doing a project like Legion and the Broken Isles with key things to show like Orcninvolvement and the Sisterhood of Elune, or nightborne in the horde when better attention would have found better solutions or better ways or presenting it

[sillag]

ppl dont get this but its the truth: when they made wod they rebooted wow into a superhero story. its not an rpg anymore, its literally a story about a bunch of superpowered hero characters that do cool things in cutscenes and the superpowered villains they defeat. its not even a good superhero story its just derivative boring trash that makes no sense and has no consistency.

why would people want to know things like "what are the forsaken doing now they ended up in orgrimmar" or "how is the alliance leadership really structured" when they could see jaina fly around in a mage-powered battleship firing arcane cannons. look now tyrande has dark vengeance powers and a new superhero costume. look thrall-man is back!!!! he'll save the day. turalyon is the worst character in this game because they know he's meant to be a cool light-powered superhero but he has no actual character beyond that. whats he doing? what does he even care about? fuck knows but he looks like a cool superhero in his light armor with his powerful light sword

simultaneously they did a soft continuity reboot kind of like when star wars erased the old eu. only in wow they basically wrote everything off as "soft-canon" that they can replace at will to suit their latest superhero garbage. including all the books, comics, all the games, and even all of wow. they were retconning legion stuff during legion

this story is a joke. the people who write this think they are making the marvel cinematic universe meets game of thrones but what they have made especially in bfa is embarrassing crap that has destroyed all potential wow had. but as long as they sit in their designer meetings and laugh as they read their latest cool script where thrall summons a big earth wave but sylvanas destroys it with her mega-despair arrows they will keep thinking they are geniuses

i hope wow dies after bfa. i really hope the writers lose their jobs and have their livelihoods destroyed. now you may think thats harsh but they dont accept feedback so this is literally our only hope for them to understand the error of their ways.

[Kokolums]

Collaborative works can get messy. Especially when they are made like puzzle pieces but the pieces are slightly off.

That was a complaint of the Walking Dead as I recall. They kept changing the show runner and each time they did, the story arcs would get screwed up. But as long as the show had Daryl and his crossbow, they were fine.

[EbaumsTipster]

i hope wow dies after bfa. i really hope the writers lose their jobs and have their livelihoods destroyed. now you may think thats harsh but they dont accept feedback so this is literally our only hope for them to understand the error of their ways.

If I was a writer and saw posts like this, I'd just start killing characters.

[sillag]

If I was a writer and saw posts like this, I'd just start killing characters.

do it. bfa has ensured there are literally no good characters left in wow. i cant think of anyone worth saving.

[Raetary]

i hope wow dies after bfa. i really hope the writers lose their jobs and have their livelihoods destroyed. now you may think thats harsh but they dont accept feedback so this is literally our only hope for them to understand the error of their ways.

You want the life of some people destroyed because you don't like the story in a video game that has set gameplay over story ever since its release?