Character Relationships

[Rozz]

No this isn't a thread about shipping
This is about the impact relationships have had on characters within Warcraft Lore. Relationships in stories can be used as a source of tension/suspense or add depth to the development of a character. Whether platonic or romantic, the ties between characters expose different sides of them that us readers/fans might not otherwise see. Of course misplaced romance can ruin a good story, but a well written one can add all the more.

In the case of Warcraft, do you have any canon relationships you feel were harmful to a character's development? Any that were beneficial? Or some you wish they developed further? This can include friendships as well.

For instance I feel the romance/love triangle involving Tyrande, Malfurion, and Illidan is poorly written and reflects badly on all three characters. It doesn't add much save for melodrama and pitiful tragedy. Rather than having the characters grow beyond the conflict, all three backslide from their stronger/more developed incarnations whenever it's mentioned.

Or Anduin and his crush on that Dwarf girl. Although I never warmed up to the concept, having her nickname being twisted into one of mockery does add an interesting layer to Anduin's epithets.

What about you guys? What relationships do you feel were for the better or worse?

[Gungnir]

Sylvanas and Arthas.
Got a bit cold towards the end and I don't think either came out a better person.


I also ship Rexxar and Princess Theradras.
Don't @ me.

[Khaza-R]

Romance is usually cringey in WoW. Thrall - Aggra, Tyrande - Malfurion, Vareesa - Rhonin. I am just thankful they didn't include Jaina and Kalecgos in any portion of BfA.

To be honest, I would rather see more family storylines fleshed out. I want to see more on the Windrunner sisters. More on Magni, Moira and her son. These feel at least more like genuine connections then Blizzard's foray at writing romance.

[Zandalariprelate]

Blizzard devs seem like they never had been in any real relationship or a healthy one because the few romances we saw in all their games are trash or really stupid. The only one I liked was from Yrel and Maraad in the alpha/beta of WoD but that was scrapped like the rest of thw good parts of WoD

[Rozz]

Romance is usually cringey in WoW. Thrall - Aggra, Tyrande - Malfurion, Vareesa - Rohan. I am just thankful they didn't include Jaina and Kalecgos in any portion of BfA.

To be honest, I would rather see more family storylines fleshed out. I want to see more on the Windrunner sisters. More on Magni, Moira and her son. These feel at least more genuine then Blizzard's foray at writing romance.

I can relate to that. One of my favorite bonds in wow is between Taretha Foxton and Thrall. It was simple, sweet, and set his story in motion. If we can't have larger arcs like we did between Jaina and Katherine, then I could settle for something short and endearing. I feel the Windrunners' brother is a missed opportunity there.

[Dellis0991]

I think the only positive relationship is the the friendship between Keeshan and Kelsey, they both are now vengeful killing machine that like to blow shit up and also that love triangle between Malfurion, Tyrande and Illidan was just strange at some point...in my head I just thought that"man Tyrande must got gold between her legs" ....clearly Illidan was never told that putting pussy on a pedestal was sad.

[Rozz]

Blizzard devs seem like they never had been in any real relationship or a healthy one because the few romances we saw in all their games are trash or really stupid. The only one I liked was from Yrel and Maraad in the alpha/beta of WoD but that was scrapped like the rest of thw good parts of WoD

Tbh I enjoyed their "hate stories" more than their love ones. ex: Sylvanas - Arthas vs Jaina - Arthas. Tyrande - Illidan vs Maiev and Illidan.
They're more interesting imo

[Benedictu]

"Romance" in WoW doesn't exist. Any romantic relationship (of which there are astonishingly few) are laughably one-dimensional and usually end in tragedy or frustration or both.

I agree that we need more of a canon family. Christie Golden has put out some good stuff in writing outside of in-game lore... but that doesn't seem to come off at all on her inclusion in the in-game writing team.

[------------------------]

ever wondered what characters are virgins?
for example, did Jaina tried that magic blue dragon cock?

[Asotcha]

In the case of Warcraft, do you have any canon relationships you feel were harmful to a character's development? Any that were beneficial? Or some you wish they developed further? This can include friendships as well.

I really enjoyed the friendship between Prophet Velen and Illidan Stormrage during Legion. In their mutual desire to finally see the Legion taken down, Velen got to know someone he trusted with serious tasks who also challenged his long-held worldview about the part that fate plays in ones future besides taking action. With how many thousands of years he had with that as well as seeing into different timelines, this was huge for him and even managed to develop his character some, as seen in the cinematic after the defeat of Argus. Illidan asks "Did you see this fate, Prophet?" and Velen answers "Our survival...was never in fate's hands." They share a smile before they part ways.

Before this, Velen may have even saved Illidans life after he rejected Xera's 'gift' and blasted her to smithereens. Right after Turalyon's failed attack on Illidan when he caught the sword with his hand, for awhile he was still on the ground before he could get up. Velen didn't know for certain that any of the soldiers surrounding that circular floor wouldn't also step forward with their weapons to try and finish the job.

Really consider it. Velen has a huge connection with those guys, sure--but they've also spent thousands of years with xera and Turalyon both. Emotions would have been running high, and any one of them could have done so. If they had, others would have been likely to join in as well. Even after Velen stepped into the middle, immediately going into an impromptu speech and taking control of the space, there would have been a couple of tense moments where all of them evaluated if they wanted to do it...

And even though it was an understated moment, and I may be overthinking it a little bit, I think that was part of the real reason why he asked the player to start gathering up the peices of Xera righit then. Lets ask this accomplished fighter to linger here. By the time we're done putting the glowing chunks in the forge, Illidan is back on his feet and the moment has passed.

It was kind of subtle, but important.

It was kind of the grown-up version of the friendship between Anduin and Wrathion, in a way

[KrakHed]

ever wondered what characters are virgins?
for example, did Jaina tried that magic blue dragon cock?

Jaina fucked Arthas. Anyhow, my #1 for terrible relationships is Thrall/Aggra. Aggra was a terribly written love interest. I can see what they were trying to do with her, as a truly Orcish woman who didn't care one bit about Thrall's position as Warchief or his position as the first new Shaman among the corrupted green Orcs. An Orc who didn't see him as Orcy enough with his human-given name that meant "slave".

The problem is that the idea was fundamentally repulsive. Thrall chose to remain Thrall, to the approval of his true shamanistic master, because he was proud of who he was and what made him so. It never made him "not a real Orc". It was all part of him.

Thrall never had a naming ceremony. Go'el is an Orc that never existed, and the lesson he should have learned is that it's a waste pursuing "what-ifs". He's Thrall and will never not be Thrall, even if he kills a timetraveling doppelganger of his former slavemaster.

So Aggra's story is this weird mess where she never comes across as respecting who he is, and instead constantly refers to him as this product of a timeline that never existed. Remolding him into this image of a Shaman who was never Warchief, who never ruled a nation nor had any duty to it. Honestly, those two need to either divorce or have a complete and total revamp of their relationship.

[Lothaeryn]

I really enjoyed the friendship between Prophet Velen and Illidan Stormrage during Legion. In their mutual desire to finally see the Legion taken down, Velen got to know someone he trusted with serious tasks who also challenged his long-held worldview about the part that fate plays in ones future besides taking action. With how many thousands of years he had with that as well as seeing into different timelines, this was huge for him and even managed to develop his character some, as seen in the cinematic after the defeat of Argus. Illidan asks "Did you see this fate, Prophet?" and Velen answers "Our survival...was never in fate's hands." They share a smile before they part ways.

Before this, Velen may have even saved Illidans life after he rejected Xera's 'gift' and blasted her to smithereens. Right after Turalyon's failed attack on Illidan when he caught the sword with his hand, for awhile he was still on the ground before he could get up. Velen didn't know for certain that any of the soldiers surrounding that circular floor wouldn't also step forward with their weapons to try and finish the job.

Really consider it. Velen has a huge connection with those guys, sure--but they've also spent thousands of years with xera and Turalyon both. Emotions would have been running high, and any one of them could have done so. If they had, others would have been likely to join in as well. Even after Velen stepped into the middle, immediately going into an impromptu speech and taking control of the space, there would have been a couple of tense moments where all of them evaluated if they wanted to do it...

And even though it was an understated moment, and I may be overthinking it a little bit, I think that was part of the real reason why he asked the player to start gathering up the peices of Xera righit then. Lets ask this accomplished fighter to linger here. By the time we're done putting the glowing chunks in the forge, Illidan is back on his feet and the moment has passed.

It was kind of subtle, but important.

It was kind of the grown-up version of the friendship between Anduin and Wrathion, in a way

I agree, Illidan's and Velen's dichotomy between each other and their differing views on predetermination had very philosophical tones that rarely if ever get shown in WoW, I appreciated the synergy between them, even if it was short lived.

As for relationships, I am very disappointed that Mal'Ganis came back in wrath and was never heard from again. Learning he was just hiding in the Scarlet Onslaught "plotting his revenge" against Arthas was a bit comical, yet not seeing any hint of him at ICC really irritated me; and not seeing him period during Legion, when his masters are literally attacking the world a third time, and every other named demon in the game's history is there, just outright pissed me off.

[Nalorakk]

ever wondered what characters are virgins?
for example, did Jaina tried that magic blue dragon cock?

Jaina and Arthas banged on the way to Stratholme as per Rise of the Lich King

[Zandalariprelate]

Tbh I enjoyed their "hate stories" more than their love ones. ex: Sylvanas - Arthas vs Jaina - Arthas. Tyrande - Illidan vs Maiev and Illidan.
They're more interesting imo

You know the difference between hate and love is very thin in fiction right? I mean sure they do well rivalities like Illidan with Arthas or Theron with Rommant in the few short stories that both participated but I think that is because it's very easy to do that kind of stories.Now speaking of the devil, I always wanted to see Sylvanas and Jaina confronting Arthas while he was taunting both of them like the Joker does with the police officers in the prision scene:

"How many friends or mentors did I kill from your precious Dalaran? You know when you are about to kill someone, it's when they show their true self, do you want to know how much was begging that decrepit old wizard before I kill him? He even offered me to reveal some dirty secrets of yours if I spared his pathethic life".

"Sylvanas, did you know I purposly raised half of your brain, so your schemes will always fail because you are just using half of the intelligence you once had? Oh btw I will kill and raise you everything I get bored"

Also some lines of Maeiv to Illidan about that Brothel he has in the black temple or hitting in his pride with Tyrande would had been awesome in the cathedral

[Rozz]

You know the difference between hate and love is very thin in fiction right? I mean sure they do well rivalities like Illidan with Arthas or Theron with Rommant in the few short stories that both participated but I think that is because it's very easy to do that kind of stories.Now speaking of the devil, I always wanted to see Sylvanas and Jaina confronting Arthas while he was taunting both of them like the Joker does with the police officers in the prision scene:

"How many friends or mentors did I kill from your precious Dalaran? You know when you are about to kill someone, it's when they show their true self, do you want to know how much was begging that decrepit old wizard before I kill him? He even offered me to reveal some dirty secrets of yours if I spared his pathethic life".

"Sylvanas, did you know I purposly raised half of your brain, so your schemes will always fail because you are just using half of the intelligence you once had? Oh btw I will kill and raise you everything I get bored"

Also some lines of Maeiv to Illidan about that Brothel he has in the black temple or hitting in his pride with Tyrande would had been awesome in the cathedral

We do need answers about that brothel!

[Dagoth Ur]

Baine's friendship with Anduin for me. And it's not about friendship itself as much as what it did to Baine's character.

I just think Baine could've filled the same role of being a Horde's peacnik, without pulling off ridiculous stuff like choping off his horns for Our Treasure. It didn't really add anything worthwhile to the character, and the only thing it actually managed to do was make Horde players lose what little respect they previously had for him. It's especially jarring considering they had a perfect template for how to properly pull off that kind of character in his father.

[MechaCThun]

Sargeras and the world-soul of Azeroth.

[Zandalariprelate]

We do need answers about that brothel!

The reaction of Malfuriom and Tyrande would be priceless and it's worse when you take in account the night elf mating culture. Illidan being a pimp is almost as bad as using arcane or fel magic

[Aeula]

Jaina and Kalecgos was just stupid to be honest. I wanted to throw up every time it was mentioned.

Also the Windrunners and their Human boytoys are vile.

Tyrande and Malfurion make a great comedic duo. Val’sharah was hilarious.

[ravenmoon]

i'm enjoying the discussion, reading the views etc, some really good pieces written, so thanks to the contributors. I won't contribute much myself, I'm afraid if I start to write, it will turn into A LONG ESSAY.. and it's basically a waste of energy at this point without my own blog or youtube video channel.

Jaina and Kalecgos was just stupid to be honest. I wanted to throw up every time it was mentioned.

Also the Windrunners and their Human boytoys are vile.

Tyrande and Malfurion make a great comedic duo. Val’sharah was hilarious.

Why do you think Jaina and Kalecgos was stupid? It could have worked and had a ring to it.. Although Anveena in sunwell trilogy was more fascinating ify ou ask me. Do you think the poor ability to flesh out detail was behind this?

Other fantasies have doen dragon/human relationsihps well enough to be good to read.

The windrunners could have also been good. elf/human relationships have also been done quite well, trying to capture the human male fantasy of getting with a beautiful exotic elven maiden or vice versa. Vereesa/Rhonin didn't have much depth, but could have. Alleria and TUralyon also didn't until the more recent stuff which I liked, and could get but not quite.

Why Sylvannas has to have a bone for Nathanos is beyond me though , but the undertones are there, or he has a bone for her.. could have been a much better story.


The lack of thalassian elf on thalassian elf relationship is what is surprisingly lacking.

tyrande and Malfurion ..its been said enough.. Val'sharah voice acting and lack of depth ruined it for a lot of horde players.. Tyrande comes off irritating and harsh, where we should see a softer side - horde player or no..

The whole yo-yoing between one minute we are friendly enough to help each other including their acial leaders do stuff that really helps them, then the next minute we are all at each others' throats killing each other with no nuance, no remembering the previous way we helped each other.. this is most puzzling. and make but makes the whole effort feel trashy..

the problem goes way back to wow classic itself. Night elves joining the alliance, or forsaken he horde, and everyone having abasic all on this side don't like all on the other side after all fighting together? There should have been more inter race bonds.. rather than driving false seeming wedges between both factions.

on the back of wc3, thalassians hating darnassians is silly.. if we were telling a sotry set 6500 years ago, then perhaps. But up till that time elves weren't ven those sort of people. Night elven druids bringing tauren under their wings to extendt he craft was another source of cross faction friendship. Human and Forsaken should have been far more complex than we all hate each other, it took the recent novel for the first time to present it in a way that it should play out.
The game should have made allowances for those withint factions that work together, and 2 factions did not fit the organic progression from WC3.. if they did it from WC2, yes, but WC3 was theire best story and game presentation in the RTS series, why revert back to Wc2 horde and alliance?

If they had written a few books, a film or series or something that kinda showed how some races were building stronger friendships or forced to band together, it would have felt more natural to those who follow the story.

Failure to do this when you are directing a project of this size is shooting yourself in the foot. Fortunately for classic, it didn't try to advance lore, i'm only criticising the decision to homogenise so much when it kicked off. boi down to 2 factions, lose unique things like undead defiling ground or night elf males only druids, females only priests (no tauren druids), warlocks only horde, shaman too, but paladins only alliance etc etc. They opened the flood gates without naturally progressing it.

I mean didn't Tera have some classes that only females of a race could be? What's. If it fits your lore, start that way, then progress a storoy how those barriers are removed.