Blizzard invalidating content once again

[Taeldorian]

The people who are somehow still progressing on Heroic BoD will see this as a nice nerf to their content which is exactly what they want/need to finish the tier, because they're STILL progressing on Heroic BoD this late in the tier.

The only people that are whining are either Mythic raiders who give a fuck what people way under them get (like why? You're still out gearing them massively), or people who probably bought BoD runs that are now mad about their purchase.

Like why do you (anyone reading this, no one in particular) care that the scrubs are getting better gear? It might make your pugs that much easier.

It’s not about “the scrubs” for me. I don’t even refer to them that way and I don’t really care what anyone else outside of me, my friends and my guildies are doing. It’s about the gearing system in general. The fact blizzard said they’re going to be removing gear sources going forward as there’s just too many should kind of show that it’s definitely an issue for the gearing system as a whole. They want to change/remove TF as well which is good because having all these gear sources+TF can get ridiculous.

Systems like these are how gear became to be meaningless in the last two epansions. It’s been a very valid and vocalized complaint on every community forum from legion to BfA which is why blizzard is finally taking action. You wouldn’t even need to bump up ilvl repeatedly like this if it wasn’t so easy to get ahead of the actual base ilvl that’s released.

You might disagree and think that having an abundance of gear everywhere is good. I don’t really think that way and apparently blizzard doesn’t either. It’s just not healthy for raiding and it’s not healthy for the gearing system in general.

[kubaje]

The ICC 5-mans invalidated ToGC 10-man. Not Ulduar. Ulduar was invalidated already by that point.

That would be 355 in BfA. Normal Uldir. It's 400. That would be normal 25 man ICC.

Now tell me, would that have been a good thing back then?

[kamuimac]

Crucible of Storms releasing, time to increase emissary rewards to 395/400.




So Blizzard is saying that the majority of players doesn't raid mythic, which means they are either entirely or mostly invalidating everything the majority did for the past 3 months.

This pretty much means: 1 week 3 months after raid release = 3 months of progressing multiple hours a week

Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?

im gonna write what i written in other thread :

they know perfecly well what they are doing.

their current sustem is promoting long term casual play . this way people who sub for long can get constant upgrades.

its very deliberate . and its working

i see dozens of people on each quest site farming emmisaries. its perfect system for casuals.

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I'll never understand this whiny argument. So after this change, the scrubs will have a 390-400 ilvl, and the elites will have a 410-420 ilvl.

This has always been the disparity between the scrubs and the elite since at least Wrath.

that is only semi truth . in order to be 400 those scrubs would have to be at least most probably 389-390 already to start geting 395 rewards.

someone being now 370-380 will take many weeks to even start geting those upgrades due to how this system works in first place.

its a system promoting long term continius playing.

[kubaje]

im gonna write what i written in other thread :

they know perfecly well what they are doing.

their current sustem is promoting long term casual play . this way people who sub for long can get constant upgrades.

its very deliberate . and its working

i see dozens of people on each quest site farming emmisaries. its perfect system for casuals.

That is really stupid.

It would work that way if casuals were a species without a brain. Even the worst players can figure out that playing for a week a few months into the content is way more efficient than playing a lot right away. Since people who play only very little don't have tons of gold, they have to spend money for their subscribtion, which means people will choose the cheaper alternative. That is the reason why people are quitting.

I myself am a casual now. There is no reason for me to play this game a lot.



Linear progression is actually the best way for casuals, not only for hardcore raiders. With linear progression there is a ton of content for everyone, no matter when they join or come back to the game.

[CynicalPenguin]

Normal rewards are 385, which is lower than emissaries. No point in doing normal = invalidated.

Heroic rewards are 400, which is equal or a little higher than emissaries. You could do it but it's so much more time consuming that it's not really worth doing for slightly higher ilvl.

For people who raid normal this means that they have no actual content left. Heroic is too difficult and they don't get anything from normal. Same goes for Crucible of Storms. Nothing worth doing for them. This is Blizzards reward structure imploding on itself.

There are things called trinkets, weapons and azerite armor, as well as azerite power that you get from raiding that are WAY better than anything a fucking wq could ever offer.

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The ICC 5-mans invalidated ToGC 10-man. Not Ulduar. Ulduar was invalidated already by that point.

no it wasn't, you still had to farm the mace for your healers.

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you go help that person in trade chat run through deadmines then, oh wait, you wont.

[Benedictu]

Systems like these are how gear became to be meaningless in the last two expansions.

Blizzard has been going down this rabbit hole for years starting with Wrath. It will be interesting to see what changes they make next Xpac and what gear sources they cut or lower. They've already opened Pandora's Box and they can't close it now.

I don't really know the solution. If they cut certain gear sources, people who enjoy doing that content for gear will quit. They're not going to be able to strongarm everyone back into doing raiding and mythic+ for gear that is the most powerful by a large margin.

One possible bandage could be going back to designing amazing-looking tier sets and making them only drop in the more challenging content (PVP and PVE). There are other ways to make people who do challenging content feel rewarded and accomplished than just ilvl.

[Jester Joe]

There are things called trinkets, weapons and azerite armor, as well as azerite power that you get from raiding that are WAY better than anything a fucking wq could ever offer.

Actually (ugh I hate saying that), a lot of classes BiS trinkets are 400-410 versions of the world quest trinkets.

It's just that the chance of getting them that high currently is pretty low.

[kubaje]

There are things called trinkets, weapons and azerite armor, as well as azerite power that you get from raiding that are WAY better than anything a fucking wq could ever offer.

Most WQ trinkets are better than the raid ones, weapons are all normalized and therefore no different than the ones from any other content and raid only traits are either only slightly better or not at all.

[vsb]

What they can't do on the other hand is catch up their neck to 48. What use is having 400 ilvl gear if it all requires 48 levels in the neck which takes like 2 months? I mean fuck, my main just hit 48 the other day and i do all of the content every week.

You are doing something wrong. My alt necklace is 46 for 3 weeks and I barely do anything outside of emissary. If I wanted to farm necklace to 48, I would do that in one week, spamming expeditions and doing all daily quests with AP reward.

Also I don't think that 400 ilvl gear requires 48 necklace. It's for 415 ilvl gear. Not even saying that real requirement is to unlock first 2 rings, other are just meh.

[Ticj]

I have to agree with the OP. I unsubbed in November at 374 item level. I resubbed this past monday and im already at 388 item level after one raid night in normal BoD. It's kind of ridiculous how easy it was to catch up to people who have been subbed the entire 5-6 months i've been away.

[Nnyco]

Wow you get gear i had 4 months ago.

[Kralljin]

The ICC 5-mans invalidated ToGC 10-man.

ToGC? You mean Trial of the Crusader (a.k.a. Normal) or Trial of the Grand Crusader (a.k.a. Heroic)?

For the record:
ToC 10 = 232
ToGC 10 = 245

ICC 5man = 232

Also, that is an important factor, ICC 5man did not offer gear pieces for every single slot, especially for less common ones such as Mail.

[Jester Joe]

I have to agree with the OP. I unsubbed in November at 374 item level. I resubbed this past monday and im already at 388 item level after one raid night in normal BoD. It's kind of ridiculous how easy it was to catch up to people who have been subbed the entire 5-6 months i've been away.

You're still 22 ilvls behind me.

[Ticj]

You're still 22 ilvls behind me.

Good for you, and I"m sure you have been raiding mythic the entire time?

I'm just saying, I'm already getting close to being on the same item level as heroic BoD, after 6 months of being unsubbed and only maybe 6 hours total of actually trying to get gear. It just seems wrong to me.

[Jester Joe]

Good for you, and I"m sure you have been raiding mythic the entire time?

I'm just saying, I'm already getting close to being on the same item level as heroic BoD, after 6 months of being unsubbed and only maybe 6 hours total of actually trying to get gear. It just seems wrong to me.

I've been doing M+ and dabbling in the basics of mythic.

Heroic BoD is the equivalent of old Normal raids, it's not really that surprising to catch up to that quickly. And from there, getting over 400 is going to be the real hurdle.

It's easy to catch up to the bottom/middle, but you're going to hit a brick wall almost at 400.

[Ticj]

I've been doing M+ and dabbling in the basics of mythic.

Heroic BoD is the equivalent of old Normal raids, it's not really that surprising to catch up to that quickly. And from there, getting over 400 is going to be the real hurdle.

It's easy to catch up to the bottom/middle, but you're going to hit a brick wall almost at 400.

Which seems to be a very average item level is it not? My point is that it is way to easy to catch up to the middle of the pack. I have a friend who has put a total of 8 hours into this expansion at 120 and he is already item level 380. It's genuinely laughable.

[Elias01]

I've been doing M+ and dabbling in the basics of mythic.

Heroic BoD is the equivalent of old Normal raids, it's not really that surprising to catch up to that quickly. And from there, getting over 400 is going to be the real hurdle.

It's easy to catch up to the bottom/middle, but you're going to hit a brick wall almost at 400.

400 itemlvl for such trivial content? You saying it like it is some kind of low number. If i look at time and effort what i would have to put to get 415 itemlvl than i would say you must be masochist to even think that 15 itemlvls are worth of all that time and effort in mythic raiding guild.

[Jester Joe]

Which seems to be a very average item level is it not? My point is that it is way to easy to catch up to the middle of the pack. I have a friend who has put a total of 8 hours into this expansion at 120 and he is already item level 380. It's genuinely laughable.

380 average?
Maybe if all you do is normal/world quests, or just recently hit 120 as you said.

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400 itemlvl for such trivial content? You saying it like it is some kind of low number. If i look at time and effort what i would have to put to get 415 itemlvl than i would say you must be masochist to even think that 15 itemlvls are worth of all that time and effort in mythic raiding guild.

Where did I say 400 was low?

I said 380 is easy to catch up to, 400 is the point where you'll hit a wall.

[GreenJesus]

This. Holy shit. I literally did nothing but emissaries, the first 4 bosses on heroic, my weekly 1x mythic+ for the cache and the warfront every other week and i'm sitting at 410.

These changes help alts. They don't invalidate shit that wasn't already invalidated. There is a reason every group instantly disbands the second opulence heroic dies. No one needs 400 ilvl gear. This change is purely aimed at alts. You can fucking buy 415 azerite gear off the vendor TODAY my dude.

I'm curious why do people leave after Opulence? I haven't pugged BoD. Only done guild clears. Do pugs struggle on conclave or something?

[Elias01]

380 average?
Maybe if all you do is normal/world quests, or just recently hit 120 as you said.

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Where did I say 400 was low?

I said 380 is easy to catch up to, 400 is the point where you'll hit a wall.

Exactly it should be much lower. Itemlvl wall where you should start doing more challenging content to get better rewards should start at maximum of 370 no 400.