Is Preach And The Community Becoming Overly Cynical About The Game?

[Onikaroshi]

Why not just move on, then?

They game used to be good, we want it to be good again, just quitting without voicing opinions does nothing.

[Hamburger]

I don't listen to all of the people who get paid to talk about the game. I don't even subscribe to their channels. I form my own opinions/likes/dislikes and go from there. People should be making up their own minds and not listening to others.

With that being said, there are a few things with the game I do not agree with and I have given feedback. That is the key to change and that is to give feedback to the developers.

[Daikoku]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=767StGhEO-E

Preach recently made a video getting in-depth with the new Heartforge system. After watching it, it got me thinking. How can someone be so nitpicky and cynical about literally everything regarding the mechanics of the game? I try very hard to understand the intricacies of my characters, but I just can't match preach or other mythic raiders feelings on how classes play in BFA. I can't look this deeply into them or care this much. I do agree they're worse than legion, but they dont feel as terrible as the forums make them out to be. I love Preaches content, but his attitude recently regarding new content turns me off. It's a real shame. The community in general has gotten so cynical as well. You can't go 5 seconds without people ranting about the smallest thing.

What do you guys think of preach and the community in general recently? Has anyone else noticed a shift in attitude towards WoW? Do you miss Preaches more chilled out critiques and videos? Maybe all of this has to do with him losing ghost? Not having two opinions bouncing off eachother? I'm not sure. Does the negativity turn you off of the game?

If you think that Preach is Cynical you weren't paying attention to his videos.

Or English isnt your primary language

[Kauko]

"This is the worst expansion ever. If you dont agree with me you're stupid." this is the attitude that drives me away from the game.

This attitude of some online content creators is one of the bigger reasons why players/fans are so cynical. This fans are just like apple/sports and other fanboys, very vocal but little content. They will repeat and repeat anything their favorite online personality will say. Just look at Asmon and his fan base. Horrible... And the sad thing about this is, that this Online Content Creators know VERY WELL what they are doing. They abuse their power just for the sake of more clicks, more views, more $$$.

Look at Bellular. Guy is so smart about the game, like he is really clears the content through. But what did he do ingame that made him credible? Some nice camera shots? Was he top ranked in PVP? Or Mythic Raider? Or even pushed M+ to its limits? Does he even raid? Why do fans listen to this guy rambling? Crendor the same story. Does he even play the game except fishing? So why should we listen to his opinion? I get that Preach earned his respect in the past, but since WoD it is obvious he is just feed up with the game. So why is he still playing it? Just like Asmongold. Guy played nonstop and now he complains about the game where it is obvious he just played to much and burned out. Why do people blindly listen to them and quote them?

[Daikoku]

You can hate or love or whatever Preach but his last video so pretty spot on.

He said that some Essence need to be manually fixed because the results are on a 360° spectrum.
Or that Blood of the Enemies is a no brainier choice compared to other essence.


He even said that Mechagon wasn't that interesting on day1 video and on day2 video he retract that because the zone progression was kickin in, and even somebody like him that doesn't give a fuck about those type of content was pretty hooked up.


So basically he is giving feedback step by step, that is the best way to give feedback imho.

[Daikoku]

This attitude of some online content creators is one of the bigger reasons why players/fans are so cynical. This fans are just like apple/sports and other fanboys, very vocal but little content. They will repeat and repeat anything their favorite online personality will say. Just look at Asmon and his fan base. Horrible... And the sad thing about this is, that this Online Content Creators know VERY WELL what they are doing. They abuse their power just for the sake of more clicks, more views, more $$$.

Look at Bellular. Guy is so smart about the game, like he is really clears the content through. But what did he do ingame that made him credible? Some nice camera shots? Was he top ranked in PVP? Or Mythic Raider? Or even pushed M+ to its limits? Does he even raid? Why do fans listen to this guy rambling? Crendor the same story. Does he even play the game except fishing? So why should we listen to his opinion? I get that Preach earned his respect in the past, but since WoD it is obvious he is just feed up with the game. So why is he still playing it? Just like Asmongold. Guy played nonstop and now he complains about the game where it is obvious he just played to much and burned out. Why do people blindly listen to them and quote them?

For the same reason people listen to T&E where their biggest achiv in game was to get the PvP Mount in 5 months instead of 2 weeks.


Who knows

[Echoherb]

Preach isn't cynical, he's just honest about his thoughts. If you actually watch Preach regularly, you'll see he's actually one of the most positive people ever.

[zknm7]

True, even WoD, for its faults had great class design and raiding. The problem was when your raids were done for the week there was nothing else, BFA has the reverse problem, which is much worse - there is a lot to do, but the core gameplay is so weak that you don't want to do all that content.

Eh, WoD butchered Mists Fury, which is probably the greatest iteration of Fury that WoW has ever seen, and WoD Arms was just.... terrible. Those are just a few examples of how I wouldn't exactly call WoD's class design "great." Don't even get me started on WoD Blood DK...

[oathy]

Cynicism doesn't just randomly pop up. There's a long, slow burn that leads up to it.

that's 100% how I feel.
its when the community really doesnt care anymore they can worry.
Classic seems to be my best option now. will give back the lock class I love
and hopefully if enough people feel the same will force the devs to accept current wow needs a rethink.

[SirCowdog]

We often spend cycles complaining about "irrelevant" and "stupid" things that Blizzard does, but we just don't have the same wide-scope perspective the devs have. Sometimes it sucks.

The feedback loop needs to shorten down to if not weeks, then at least couple of months. And that's a huge challenge for the dev team.

Yeah, like when alpha testers say they think an idea is not good. Beta testers test it and say it's bad. PTR people point out flaws or bugs with it. And then it still somehow gets pushed through with live.

And this isn't even just small issues. The entire Azerite trait idea was criticized the entire way, and it's not until almost a year after launch that 8.2 is going to address it. If you'll pardon the swearing: That's a pretty shitty development cycle.

Something in there is definitely broken, and it's just one more thing causing players to get angry and cynical.

[redwolfrain]

Might be worth remembering that this is his job. His only job.
He is in habit of posting polarizing videos. I assume being controversial, edgy and stirring the outrage just slightly gets the best views.

The "community" has lots of balanced youtubers as well - generally those who get invited to Blizzard press events etc.

Posting edgy content to get "the best views" is great to grow a channel, however Preach doesn't monetize his videos, he survives through donations to his patreon.

[Gungnir]

ofc he is . free voyage with waifu to california ? who wouldnt be angry

i stopped caring what he is saying - he is speaking solely to niche 1% audience - 99% will be like k so what is doin most dps" or "what has the most sexy graphic effects"

i dont care how he feels about gameplay i know im gonna enjoy those like crazy because how epic they look .

and people like preach who treat this game like excel spreadsheet go all collectively go and f.... themselves.

I just have to point out that the last 4 or so months, I have not seen a single positive comment from you.
All you ever do is trashtalk, hate and be generally ignorant regarding everything.

Just thought I'd let you know mate, have a nice day.

[Cwimge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=767StGhEO-E

Preach recently made a video getting in-depth with the new Heartforge system. After watching it, it got me thinking. How can someone be so nitpicky and cynical about literally everything regarding the mechanics of the game? I try very hard to understand the intricacies of my characters, but I just can't match preach or other mythic raiders feelings on how classes play in BFA. I can't look this deeply into them or care this much. I do agree they're worse than legion, but they dont feel as terrible as the forums make them out to be. I love Preaches content, but his attitude recently regarding new content turns me off. It's a real shame. The community in general has gotten so cynical as well. You can't go 5 seconds without people ranting about the smallest thing.

What do you guys think of preach and the community in general recently? Has anyone else noticed a shift in attitude towards WoW? Do you miss Preaches more chilled out critiques and videos? Maybe all of this has to do with him losing ghost? Not having two opinions bouncing off eachother? I'm not sure. Does the negativity turn you off of the game?

It's almost as if Ion has systemically eradicated the goodwill of the playerbase and pissed in the well of optimism

[SirCowdog]

It's very clearly a huge old fashioned waterfall cycle from ca. 20 years ago.

They're stuck with the anger of the crowd and "Blizzard doesn't listen" complaints until they: 1) change their development methodology to something more agile and 2) explain how their feedback loop is implemented and what can be expected from it.

If that's really how their development cycle works, then it sounds like it's fundamentally not a very good system to begin with. If you literally can't make changes to your design without years of time to do it, then that's incredibly unweildy. Even explaining how it works to their customers doesn't help, because they only care about the end product.

Even if I sit down and say, "Ok...I actually REALLY understand why you can't change the problem we, as players, have identified about the game," the question just shifts to, "Why aren't you using a better development system where you COULD change it for future releases?"

Which leads back to the cynical direction of the players, but this time with confirmation. No matter what feedback they generate, now they know for a fact that it will literally have no effect on the development cycle. What's the point of even asking for feedback in such an ineffectual system?

[kamuimac]

Preach isn't cynical, he's just honest about his thoughts. If you actually watch Preach regularly, you'll see he's actually one of the most positive people ever.

i havent seen him being positive since at least MoP. since WoD it was constant whining.

but whining works because it bringins specific type of people who pay for him playing game.

same thing with asmonbald.

both of them have nothing but negative impact on game and we all would be better if they went to stream other games and forgot about wow.

[Whitedragon]

True, even WoD, for its faults had great class design and raiding. The problem was when your raids were done for the week there was nothing else, BFA has the reverse problem, which is much worse - there is a lot to do, but the core gameplay is so weak that you don't want to do all that content.

This is something I don't get, people keep nagging about the classes in BfA as being bad, when as far as I can tell only a few specs really fall in the poor category, most are about the same, and a few are better.... As for WoD it had it's own pathetic specs, and OP specs, Personally I hated the specs I ended up playing in WoD (H Pally, Ret, MM, Affliction). I haven't had these problems in BfA.

Yes some specs feel a little empty, but lets drop this stigmata that every spec sucks to play in BfA.

[Samuraijake]

is it ok to admit that im turned on by the OPs avatar tauren pic?... if its not ok then i wont admit it.

[Gungnir]

This is something I don't get, people keep nagging about the classes in BfA as being bad, when as far as I can tell only a few specs really fall in the poor category, most are about the same, and a few are better.... As for WoD it had it's own pathetic specs, and OP specs, Personally I hated the specs I ended up playing in WoD (H Pally, Ret, MM, Affliction). I haven't had these problems in BfA.

Yes some specs feel a little empty, but lets drop this stigmata that every spec sucks to play in BfA.

You're entirely right about that part.
I tend to get every class up to cap and geared out before each expansion, and as such I've now leveled every character and gotten them to decent gear in the hopes of finding something I enjoy playing in BfA.

I found a single spec that doesn't want to make me gouge my eyeballs out.
So what you're saying is technically correct, yes.

[kamuimac]

This is something I don't get, people keep nagging about the classes in BfA as being bad, when as far as I can tell only a few specs really fall in the poor category, most are about the same, and a few are better.... As for WoD it had it's own pathetic specs, and OP specs, Personally I hated the specs I ended up playing in WoD (H Pally, Ret, MM, Affliction). I haven't had these problems in BfA.

Yes some specs feel a little empty, but lets drop this stigmata that every spec sucks to play in BfA.

thats because people whine for sake of whining - just because class doesnt feel 100 proc to their liking only like 90-95% there answer is "class is absolute shit"

thts why devs ignore any feedback people have because its utterly usless.

[Onikaroshi]

This is something I don't get, people keep nagging about the classes in BfA as being bad, when as far as I can tell only a few specs really fall in the poor category, most are about the same, and a few are better.... As for WoD it had it's own pathetic specs, and OP specs, Personally I hated the specs I ended up playing in WoD (H Pally, Ret, MM, Affliction). I haven't had these problems in BfA.

Yes some specs feel a little empty, but lets drop this stigmata that every spec sucks to play in BfA.

It's not every spec, but its 90% them. Almost every spec had a much better version of it at some point in the past.

And it's not about being OP or UP, numbers have little to nothing to do with it. It's about the flow and fun of the spec.