Blizzard invalidating content once again

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well, if I could be arsed then that would mean I had a reason to keep running shit on my alts, but.. nah fuck that. Also I don't really get why they need to raise the level. They made such incredible niche loot in that instance that they had to counter balance that loot with a higher item level. Now raising the standard shit just means that it's once again less desireable.

[Sylvaeres]

I don't see how it's possible for scrubs to hit 410-420 in current content. So I call BS. But it's also hard to call total BS, since the abomination of Titanforging and Warforging are in the game.

So truce.

My Dk that I literally do a 10 on once a week and then park is 412. He'll walk into 8.2 at 414-415. If you can't see how it's possible, then you're narrow sighted to say the least

[Soon-TM]

Well, if I could be arsed then that would mean I had a reason to keep running shit on my alts, but.. nah fuck that. Also I don't really get why they need to raise the level. They made such incredible niche loot in that instance that they had to counter balance that loot with a higher item level. Now raising the standard shit just means that it's once again less desireable.

Well, it's pretty much what they have been doing since at least WotLK (even if it was a bit more elegant back then). Every patch is self contained, and you don't need anything from the previous tier. Yes, it's frankly dumb imo, but Blizzard seems to like it.

[Sansnom]

Why are you keeping calling people scrubs? I have 385 ilvl and I pretty much can't upgrade anymore. This will allow me to get more upgrades. Why does it bother you? Just use rio.

Ego. They have to look better than others.

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raider io exist because most players unfortunately have no motivation or desire to improve their skills and removing raider io wouldn't fix that.

And there others who have no motivation to help those that do want to improve their skills. Removing raider.io will not help since there always be those that want to segregate the player base. If it was not raider.io, it would be something else.

[Jinpachi]

Crucible of Storms releasing, time to increase emissary rewards to 395/400.




So Blizzard is saying that the majority of players doesn't raid mythic, which means they are either entirely or mostly invalidating everything the majority did for the past 3 months.

This pretty much means: 1 week 3 months after raid release = 3 months of progressing multiple hours a week

Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?

Because it's something to do. And gearing up the playerbase to run the content is never a bad thing. The top players get the first crack at the good shit, the plebs get the scraps after it's been farmed

[Mightytasty]

This thread is making me feel like the crazy one for getting enjoyment from gear progression. The next step for Blizzard is to make world quests award mythic level gear. The step after that is stat templates for PvE.

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Ego. They have to look better than others.

Isn’t this the point of an MMO? So they should remove all mounts and titles too? I need help understanding this point of view.

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Honestly, the reason that this is being implemented is so people can actually get gear instead of stagnating. There are so many groups in the LFG listings that expect you to have insane ilvls for things like normal and heroic that it's hard as fuck to actually experience the content or get gear. So I think this change is fine in light of all the people in LFG expecting pugs to carry them and their friends.

This is an MMO. Join a guild.

[Dakara]

Bringing welfare gear up to a level where new/returning/re-rolling players can get up to speed isn't a bad thing. My alts certainly appreciate it because I despise the PUG world.

Where the real problem lies in BFA (IMHO) is the disparity between Raid and Mythic+ gear. It really is poor design when your class/specs BiS list has the same items in it each Tier, just at the new higher ilvl cap so you have to and grind the same pieces over again.

No wonder raiding is dying.

[Charge me Doctor]

I think the last time i've done emissary quest was, like, 3 months ago? Why is that a problem exactly? If you find doing 4 local quests more fun than doing a raid with your friends - good for you, it's great that you can get some gear this way, isn't it?

[rda]

"Scrubs" will have something like 400-410.

You seem to not get what this changes means. You can now get items equal in quality to the ones you get in the second highest difficulty by only doing trivial content. At this point you don't even need a keyboard and can play with a steering wheel attached to your toaster and get the same rewards that people get who are actually trying.

If people don't have to try, they won't and they will eventually quit. The devs should try to make me want to play as much as possible, not making in easy for me to skip everything and play as little as possible.

Here is how it looks from a "scrub" point of view.

* I am not raiding and I am not going to. I did this seriously before, now it's too much hassle and not fun enough for the amount of time / schedule / wipes.
* I capped my gear on world quests / warfronts / world bosses, so I am not doing them either.
* If you don't increase the ilvl on world quests, I will continue not doing them. If I get bored with old raids, etc, maybe I will stop subbing.
* If you increase the ilvl on world quests, I will do them for some time until my gear is capped to the new ilvl.

It's simple. You can do whatever you want, and one of the alternatives provides stuff for me to do and the other isn't.

I get that you are probably saying "what about raiders, huh?" and I don't have an answer for that and, frankly, I don't care - I am no longer a raider. I am not saying Blizzard should do things for me that punish raiders - that's for Blizzard to decide, maybe there's a win-win somewhere. But the perspective on why they are doing what they are doing is above.

[kamuimac]

Bringing welfare gear up to a level where new/returning/re-rolling players can get up to speed isn't a bad thing. My alts certainly appreciate it because I despise the PUG world.

Where the real problem lies in BFA (IMHO) is the disparity between Raid and Mythic+ gear. It really is poor design when your class/specs BiS list has the same items in it each Tier, just at the new higher ilvl cap so you have to and grind the same pieces over again.

No wonder raiding is dying.

if people trully enjoyed it they would still be raiding.

what you are angry about is finaly realising people always hated raiding but they had literaly no alternative.

now that alternative (mythic + ) is here they gratefully drop raiding and focus on 5 mans.

proving raiding was a mistake since 2004.

you want more people raiding ? stop ridiculously overtune raids to cater to Method & co. nerf them by 20-40% and i guarantee people will return to raiding.

[Onikaroshi]

if people trully enjoyed it they would still be raiding.

what you are angry about is finaly realising people always hated raiding but they had literaly no alternative.

now that alternative (mythic + ) is here they gratefully drop raiding and focus on 5 mans.

proving raiding was a mistake since 2004.

People didn't "hate" raiding, it's just a lot of effort to go through for little reward now. Sets alone would spark it back up.

[Dakara]

if people trully enjoyed it they would still be raiding.

what you are angry about is finaly realising people always hated raiding but they had literaly no alternative.

now that alternative (mythic + ) is here they gratefully drop raiding and focus on 5 mans.

proving raiding was a mistake since 2004.

We are.

Part of the enjoyment of raiding, is once a Tiers on farm, achieving your BiS set in preparation for the next Tier.
In BFA, guilds don't bother farming the Raids because their BiS gear is in the 5 Man content.
Many players actually un-sub after clearing the raid until the next Tier is released. Welcome to WOW "Seasons".

[kamuimac]

People didn't "hate" raiding, it's just a lot of effort to go through for little reward now. Sets alone would spark it back up.

bs. if you know how many peopel i have seen over years even Cata/MoP to quit raiding because they "cba with this" you wouldnt say nonsense like this.

people have been quiting raiding en masse years before lfr was even in game.

raiding is simply too hard - and majority of people dont like hard.

[anveena]

I really don't see what the problem is. It isn't going to change anything. A whole bunch of terrible players already have 400+ ilvl. I personally think it should have scaled to 400 from the start of 8.1.

[Onikaroshi]

bs. if you know how many peopel i have seen over years even Cata/MoP to quit raiding because they "cba with this" you wouldnt say nonsense like this.

people have been quiting raiding en masse years before lfr was even in game.

raiding is simply too hard - and majority of people dont like hard.

That's completely different then "hate". Those were people who were never going to last long anyway. Raiding has never been a huge population, only about 30% of the population, but there really is no majority in wow anyway.

But those of us who do like raiding still aren't going to sit there and go through all the effort for so little reward, you get more reward right now out of getting four other people together and spamming M+ then you do getting 20 people together and running a weekly raid, which is a hell of a lot more stressful.

Between the removal of ML (and yes, it does matter), the lack of sets and things like TF (which thank god is being changed or removed), raiding has just gone downhill on the rewards front.

[Charge me Doctor]

bs. if you know how many peopel i have seen over years even Cata/MoP to quit raiding because they "cba with this" you wouldnt say nonsense like this.

people have been quiting raiding en masse years before lfr was even in game.

raiding is simply too hard - and majority of people dont like hard.

Raiding isn't all about raids tho, it's time-commitment with dozen of other players. I personally don't want to deal with all that guild bullcrap again, that some home-grown little tyrants wish to put in, like "mandatory discord strategy discussion meetings", or "you didn't wanted to abuse that dungeon-leveling bug for my alt so nO rAiD sPoT fOr YoU lOl".

Then someone doesn't get a piece of loot, because "we have to gear up our DHs first", and half of friends of the guy who didn't get loot simply don't show up for next raid time, but are still in the raid according to battle.net with pugs instead.

[Monolithi]

If you spend 13 weeks "progressing" to 400 ilvl, yes, you should just sit back and wait for welfare instead.

Wow, must be really high horse you are sitting on.

[Kuja]

Nice. I love it when I get decent gear without having to group up. Shame that the expansion offers nothing to do, but perhaps the next patch will spice it up. Flying has usually done it for me (To get me interested again).

[psyquest]

Blizzard still hasnt realised that showering players with gear does not make a great game or even a good one.

There is no long activity to do to reach a goal and get a nice PERMANENT reward.

If you are a solo player, you get gear and then what? There is nothing to do.
If you are a mythic+ player, you carry on may be for better rio, some stupid titanforge proc but nothing permantent: in 2 months, all for nothing. what an mmo!
If you are a raider: nothing you raid for is interesting. No raid transmog with tiers set. you kill all bosses then whats the point of farming gear? Blizzard will invalidate ALL your farming with a patch and heroic of next raid + mythic+ for 1 week will replace your ENTIRE mythic raiding gear.

Regardless of what type of player you are, you need to realise that the very design of the game currently sucks balls, for everyone. Unless blizzard gets rid of the diabloisation of wow and start getting back to MMO + RPG basics with nice permanent reward structures for EVERYONE done with daily fun activities, then this game will NEVER recover his community and the numbers of subs it had.

[Mightytasty]

Nice. I love it when I get decent gear without having to group up. Shame that the expansion offers nothing to do, but perhaps the next patch will spice it up. Flying has usually done it for me (To get me interested again).

Why do you play an MMO if you don’t like playing with others? Moreover, why do you need gear if you don’t tackle challenging group content? There are many things wrong with BFA, but lack of content is not one of them.