My nostalgic delusions about Vanila as competitive player back than.

[Sorcereria]

So I've been out from WoW for quite some time (2013) but classic bring memories (vanila 450days played) as competitive RL, theorycrafter (hi ElitistJerks!), mage 672spell dmg and 33% crit and than top feral in next expansions.

Let me tell things that I havent seen being mentioned or taken deep thought.
I might consider playing very casually but things need to be taken with a bit of a thought.

1. Debuff limit this has to go or increased limit. Its just plain wrong and stupid to have those discussions. This will need balancing though.
2. Gear/Items stat remaster/balancing. For many classes you DO NOT WANT to wear Epic quality stuff untill VERY VERY late in the game (even BWL+), the blue items are often superior to BWL+ gear. Basic example is spell damage/crit gear for mages. On top of that many epic items are useless for even offspecs due to terrible stat alocation making some offspec classes literally UNPLAYABLE.
3. Shaman/Paladin for both factions.
4. Anyone remember shaman totems affecting only his 5 man group in a raid? On top of shuffling them in group for Mana Tides for damage/healers etc? Make totems raid wide? Back than groups were not locked in combat due to it.
5. TF bracers drop too random. Item used to be a bit broken for raiding, tough luck if you havent seen second binding drop or very late in NAXX.
6. Mage trinkets ZHC + TOEP bring back the love again.
7. Buffing needs to be AOE raid wide.
8. Some specs need A LOT LOVE in both spell balancing/mana/talents and item stat alocation to make them vialable. This will be tough on people who will eventually get cornered into 1 spec or rerolling due to being useless if they want to raid as certain type of class i.e dmg dealer/tank/healer.
9. I wanted to say sth about MC fire resist gear being random due to MC drops (which you could have farmed with new instance ID's )but im not sure if under current level of player skill it would actually make a difference.
10. Silithus grind - was it for the mage BIS ring? ;-)
11. Aoe looting
12. Bag space...
13. Bring back good old Alterac Valley.
14. High end BG without top end RAID GEAR is IMPOSSIBLE or IMBALANCED. Im sorry guys but BG gear was almost useless. Those games vs premades were amazing though!
15. THREAT and Taunt immune bosses and threat ceilings - I hope it will be kept as it used to be. This is gonna be a major what the heck moment for many who never played in Vanilla. TAUNT PLEASE!!! I hope they stick to original.
16. Instance raid entrance fights <3

17. Due to many above there needs to be done quite sophisticated encounter balancing and I guess player skill level raised over the years though im not sure about the latter ;D

[Globi]

Why coming back to Classic if you're a competitive player? BFA is a great challenge with MM+ / WF MM

You don't need to have a perfect balancing because, huh, it's an RPG, not League of Legends or DOTA. Classic is about an adventure

Difference is what make Classic so special

[Sorcereria]

True about the journey but there are some things in Vanilla that MAJORITY of the player base forgot, never encountered, never been affected, never experienced but they heard how good it was. It was for true hardcore gamers only. Majority of casuals probably never cleared MC or even ZG/AQ20 unless carried by friends & family on offday runs with people decked with gear.

I am not saying that lack of being casual friendly is bad, I personally didnt like many routes WoW took with the years, casualty but not all of them were bad or step back. Many were a godsend. Take whats good and won't affect the feeling.

I have personally stopped WoW in 2013 when I moved to some tropical island and been tracking it once in a blue moon. Got another (competitive) hobbies to back my life nowdays as Freediver/Spearfisher!

[Veggie50]

True about the journey but there are some things in Vanilla that MAJORITY of the player base forgot, never encountered, never been affected, never experienced but they heard how good it was. It was for true hardcore gamers only. Majority of casuals probably never cleared MC or even ZG/AQ20 unless carried by friends & family on offday runs with people decked with gear.

I am not saying that lack of being casual friendly is bad, I personally didnt like many routes WoW took with the years, casualty but not all of them were bad or step back. Many were a godsend. Take whats good and won't affect the feeling.

I have personally stopped WoW in 2013 when I moved to some tropical island and been tracking it once in a blue moon. Got another (competitive) hobbies to back my life nowdays as Freediver/Spearfisher!

Funny how you know what other players remember

[Thunderball]

Go back to BFA please.

[Sorcereria]

I never said I want to go back to raiding, nor I think I have time to dedicate myself to it. You are missing the point, its purely sharing experience. I don't think there are many players left on current servers that experienced and remember the Vanilla experience past MC, I wish to be proven wrong though.

My guess is there will be a lot players appealed to Classic, but their idea and expectations will hit the reality fast.
Vanila to this days is very idealised becouse of nostalgy, but my idea is to share some experiences that might have been forgotten.

My personal opinion is that Vanilla was trully about raiding. The content almost solely was about raiding, many might not agree but if you didn't raid there was very few things to do beside grinds which purpose was again raiding in most cases. PVP? You must raid!

Shall I even bother to say that I think you guys don't even read what is written?

[micwini]

No changes. This list of changes is so big it would not even be the same game anymore.

[Gungnir]

So, in essence, this is just a thinly veiled "we need to change things" even though it has been clearly said that it will be as close to Vanilla as physically possible.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I never said I want to go back to raiding, nor I think I have time to dedicate myself to it. You are missing the point.
My guess is there will be a lot players appealed to Classic, but their idea and expectations will hit the reality fast.
Vanila to this days is very idealised becouse of nostalgy, but my idea is to share some experiences that might have been forgotten.

My personal opinion is that Vanilla was trully about raiding. The content almost solely was about raiding, many might not agree but if you didn't raid there was very few things to do beside grinds which purpose was again raiding in most cases.

Shall I even bother to say that I think you guys don't even read what is written?

Also you do realize that people have been playing Vanilla since WotLK rolled around.

[Globi]

I never said I want to go back to raiding, nor I think I have time to dedicate myself to it. You are missing the point.
My guess is there will be a lot players appealed to Classic, but their idea and expectations will hit the reality fast.
Vanila to this days is very idealised becouse of nostalgy, but my idea is to share some experiences that might have been forgotten.

My personal opinion is that Vanilla was trully about raiding. The content almost solely was about raiding, many might not agree but if you didn't raid there was very few things to do beside grinds which purpose was again raiding in most cases.

Shall I even bother to say that I think you guys don't even read what is written?

I strongly disagree : BFA is all about raiding but Classic is more about how you live in this world.

[mojusk]

even if i agree with many of OPs points.
it aint gonna happend, the vanilla fanboys goes on a mental tantrum over any suggestion of even the tiniest changes.
they dont want a improved vanilla, they want vanilla. they are afraid of what those improvements would be.
and i kinda understand them, they fought for this for a very long time, and they dont want to get a scuffed vanilla.

[Rampant Rabbit]

One of these posts again. Boring.

[Gungnir]

even if i agree with many of OPs points.
it aint gonna happend, the vanilla fanboys goes on a mental tantrum over any suggestion of even the tiniest changes.
they dont want a improved vanilla, they want vanilla. they are afraid of what those improvements would be.
and i kinda understand them, they fought for this for a very long time, and they dont want to get a scuffed vanilla.

Well that and you can't make some of these major changes without destroying the status quo within the game.
For example, two of his points, if you remove the debuff limit and give classes mana that doesn't run out.. then you'll see 40 man raids with about 20 shadowpriests and 1 warlock.

[mojusk]

yea its a pandoras box of domino/butterfly effects.

[crusadernero]

Listen, this is how retail wow has become not recognizable any longer compared to wow classic.

People moaning about not having QoL features in the game to the point the game goes on autorails without the players needing to think about anything at all. Its not healthy for a MMORPG, its nice having this stuff in the game.

Classic wow is more about living in the world. its more true to its nature were we overcome hurdles. All from killing and collecting simple stuff out in the world to overcome deadly foes in a dungeon/raid.

Retail wow is a streamlined rush towards max ilevel and into m+/raiding.

I cant wait to play classic and just be another hero venturing out in the world of Azeroth.

[Sorcereria]

How much does it differ from running 8 to 10 mages and rogues and BG having very similar background with very specific classes wanted with PVE GEAR.

The balance needs to happen to even make some classes playable which were NEVER used in normal raids.. I dont even talk about hardcore raiding.

Number tweaking imo is a must for both classes, items, specs, talents.

[crusadernero]

I never said I want to go back to raiding, nor I think I have time to dedicate myself to it. You are missing the point, its purely sharing experience. I don't think there are many players left on current servers that experienced and remember the Vanilla experience past MC, I wish to be proven wrong though.

My guess is there will be a lot players appealed to Classic, but their idea and expectations will hit the reality fast.
Vanila to this days is very idealised becouse of nostalgy, but my idea is to share some experiences that might have been forgotten.

My personal opinion is that Vanilla was trully about raiding. The content almost solely was about raiding, many might not agree but if you didn't raid there was very few things to do beside grinds which purpose was again raiding in most cases. PVP? You must raid!

Shall I even bother to say that I think you guys don't even read what is written?

Sure, wow has always been about raiding. But that dont mean it needs to be competetive. Most people play for fun and raiding as a big group is a core fun part of wow. Always has been.

Theres lots to do in classic wow besides raiding. Maybe retail wow got more streamlined and obvious gameplay options, but theres options in classic wow to. Theres raiding, dungeons, pvp and proffesions. Those are obvious and straightforward. Theres also reps and quests to complete.

Whats also cool with classic wow is that alot of stuff back then were player driven and not a button you clicked on and queued up for. world pvp at crossroads, Hillsbrad and many other locations.


I dont see any reason whatsoever for Blizzard to polish up classic wow and "fix" stuff. People want classic, they should get just that. If not, its all been for nothing really.

[mojusk]

maybe some day in the future, years from now, people will be willing to try out improvements. but right now, they want vanilla in its purest form.

[chrisnumbers]

balance needs to happen to even make some classes playable
Number tweaking imo is a must for both classes, items, specs, talents.

I don't think you'll find anyone willing to open up a new debate about these things. They have been argued to death on these very forums since Classic was announced, have a look around. Neither side is going to suddenly agree with the other on such a divided topic.

[Villentretenmerth]

Bad troll is bad, at least try...

[Vofka]

So I've been out from WoW for quite some time (2013) but classic bring memories (vanila 450days played) as competitive RL, theorycrafter (hi ElitistJerks!), mage 672spell dmg and 33% crit and than top feral in next expansions.

Let me tell things that I havent seen being mentioned or taken deep thought.
I might consider playing very casually but things need to be taken with a bit of a thought.

1. Debuff limit this has to go or increased limit. Its just plain wrong and stupid to have those discussions. This will need balancing though.
Agree. it Was technical limitation of the time and it doesn't make sense to keep it.
2. Gear/Items stat remaster/balancing. For many classes you DO NOT WANT to wear Epic quality stuff untill VERY VERY late in the game (even BWL+), the blue items are often superior to BWL+ gear. Basic example is spell damage/crit gear for mages. On top of that many epic items are useless for even offspecs due to terrible stat alocation making some offspec classes literally UNPLAYABLE.
Yep. Itemizaiton in vanilla is BROKEN
3. Shaman/Paladin for both factions.
No, factions should be distinct from each other and having different classes available is a great way to do it.
4. Anyone remember shaman totems affecting only his 5 man group in a raid? On top of shuffling them in group for Mana Tides for damage/healers etc? Make totems raid wide? Back than groups were not locked in combat due to it.
Agree. Shaman totems being group only were a technical limitation, it was confirmed in Countdowntoclassic podcast by the ex-vanilla dev.
5. TF bracers drop too random. Item used to be a bit broken for raiding, tough luck if you havent seen second binding drop or very late in NAXX.
6. Mage trinkets ZHC + TOEP bring back the love again.
7. Buffing needs to be AOE raid wide.
No, raid buff management is an integral part of support gameplay.
8. Some specs need A LOT LOVE in both spell balancing/mana/talents and item stat alocation to make them vialable. This will be tough on people who will eventually get cornered into 1 spec or rerolling due to being useless if they want to raid as certain type of class i.e dmg dealer/tank/healer.
Agree. Items and spec balance are two weakest points of Classic wow.
9. I wanted to say sth about MC fire resist gear being random due to MC drops (which you could have farmed with new instance ID's )but im not sure if under current level of player skill it would actually make a difference.
10. Silithus grind - was it for the mage BIS ring? ;-)
It also has nice healer necklace and tanking shield in case you were unlucky with zg/bwl drops also some blues might roll very nice
11. Aoe looting
Not necessary but whatever.
12. Bag space...
13. Bring back good old Alterac Valley.
14. High end BG without top end RAID GEAR is IMPOSSIBLE or IMBALANCED. Im sorry guys but BG gear was almost useless. Those games vs premades were amazing though!
Separating PVE and PVP into two different play "modes" was a mistake.
15. THREAT and Taunt immune bosses and threat ceilings - I hope it will be kept as it used to be. This is gonna be a major what the heck moment for many who never played in Vanilla. TAUNT PLEASE!!! I hope they stick to original.
16. Instance raid entrance fights <3

17. Due to many above there needs to be done quite sophisticated encounter balancing and I guess player skill level raised over the years though im not sure about the latter ;D

Hey, i was playing wow since mid TBC and i've never experienced the original 2004-2006 vanilla so i don't have any nostalgia about it, i've only tried it on Nostalrius in 2016 levelled a priest to 60 and cleared MC/BWL/ZG and was preparing for AQ. With that said i'm EXTREMELY hyped for Classic release because even with its obvious flaws vanilla wow is a much better MMORPG than current version of WoW.