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  1. #281
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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...exico.amp.html

    Leader of that foolish group arrested.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by noidentity View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/u...ew-mexico.html

    So the supposed leader of the militia was arrested on firearm charges because he is a felon.

    Good job following the law fella's.
    Ah nvm already posted.

    Nice. Still see these goofs defended by posters here. Stay classy MMO champ.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    You must not know what an embassy is.
    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...consulate.html

    Unfortunately, U.S. embassies and consulates cannot process requests for this form of protection because, under U.S. law, asylum seekers can apply only if they are physically present in the United States (or at least at a U.S. border or other point of entry).

    There is a common misconception that U.S. embassies and consulates are basically the same as U.S. soil. It is true that international law protects national embassies and consulates from being destroyed, entered, or searched (without permission) by the government of the country where they are located (the host country). However, this does not give those embassies or consulates the full status of being part of their home nation’s territory. Therefore, U.S. law does not consider asylum seekers at U.S. embassies and consulates to be “physically present in the United States” (or at a U.S. border or point of entry).
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    You say that as thought what the police do is ethical.



    Uh, live their lives normally? Is this a trick question?



    And yet when people say that in regards to defending themselves against white nationalists (who, unlike immigrants, are actually hurting people), you throw a temper tantrum. Why?



    True. They should take more money from billionaires and corporations for that.



    Who told you we don't have the means to fund those programs?
    The police are ethical, yes. Some of them sometimes screw up and sometimes they get their asses covered by their precinct but yeah, we have police for a reason. They generally do a good job and if we didn't have them what would we do? Uhhh, we'd have to form even more militias.

    Is that a joke answer? Obviously I'm talking about what would they do to solve the problem. If they went and ignored the problem and "lived their lives normally" those 300 people would be running free in our country right now.

    White nationalists? What the fuck are you talking about?

    Yeah go ahead and take that money from the rich, see what happens. You people are so ignorant. The whole reason the US is rich in the first place is because we used to be and to some degree still remain much more appealing to businesses than the rest of the world. The better you treat investors and businesses the more your economy grows because you attract more people with money wanting to spend that money to pay your people to work for them. If you try to force them to pay more they will just stop investing and your economy dies and you receive less taxes. You can't force people to spend money in your country.

    Economists almost unanimously say that social security is failing and will have to be cut back. It's not a secret, it has been looming over us for decades. Some states are even around 20 percent and are ready to fall apart.
    Last edited by dippinsawse; 2019-04-21 at 06:53 AM.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Nope, but my dad does have an SKS, but he doesn't use more than 10 rounds in it at a time. And no, I fully expect all rules, laws and regulations to apply to me. I just don't feel the need to have 1000 guns, an AR-15 with a 100 round drum magazine and a bump stock on it.
    And neither do I so why did you assume the absolute worst of me?

    The gun I personally would like to own most is the Mateba Autorevolver Unica 6 Dynamic Sportiva, as it is an example of an almost entirely unique, yet functional gun design, being a truly semi-automatic, recoil operated revolver, with a lower aligned barrel. The home protection model of that same line can fire up to the .454 cassul with supported modifications which also counts it among the most powerful semi-automatic handguns on the planet. Truly, a work of artistry and engineering prowess.

    I honestly hope that if I ever do end up owning a gun, that I never even have to think about it outside of "Hey, this might be a fun day to go to the range and waste some time, money, and my awesome hearing in the same afternoon!" Probably keep it in a locked case or display on my desk with the bullets under lock, key, and potentially password.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Yeah, i just assumed they were gonna jump on the Caravan. I see they are at least trying the legal route.
    Since you are obviously unfamiliar with American law regarding asylum and the seeking there of, it should be pointed out: THE. CARAVAN. IS. LEGAL.

    It flat out amazes me the number of people who post in this thread who can't seem to grasp the fact that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ILLEGAL about undoccumented individuals crossing the border wherever the fuck they want if they apply for asylum once across...... Learn your own goddamned laws for christ sakes....

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    The Border Patrol has specifically told them not to do this.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/united-...mexico-border/

    So yeah, your own authorities have told them not to.
    Exactly my point. Americans are debating & deciding this among ourselves. We will decide what comes of it, and anyone else's opinions are so much dust.
    "Independence forever!" --- President John Adams
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  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    The police are ethical, yes. Some of them sometimes screw up and sometimes they get their asses covered by their precinct but yeah, we have police for a reason. They generally do a good job and if we didn't have them what would we do? Uhhh, we'd have to form even more militias.
    I'm sure they do a good job. Probably is that you don't think critically about what that job is.

    Here, let's run through a thought experiment.

    -What would happen if your boss reported to the police that an employee was stealing office supplies?
    -What would happen if you reported to the police that your boss was stealing your paycheck?

    Is that a joke answer? Obviously I'm talking about what would they do to solve the problem. If they went and ignored the problem and "lived their lives normally" those 300 people would be running free in our country right now.
    ...And?

    White nationalists? What the fuck are you talking about?
    Charlottesville
    Tree of Life
    Christchurch
    Quebec City

    Maybe you should read a newspaper now and again?

    Yeah go ahead and take that money from the rich, see what happens.
    Well, we're seeing what happens when you give the rich unilateral control over our society. And it's not good.

    You people are so ignorant. The whole reason the US is rich in the first place is because we used to be and to some degree still remain much more appealing to businesses than the rest of the world. The better you treat investors and businesses the more your economy grows because you attract more people with money wanting to spend that money to pay your people to work for them. If you try to force them to pay more they will just stop investing and your economy dies and you receive less taxes. You can't force people to spend money in your country.
    Oh no. Then we won't have such fabulous innovations like apps that automate gentrification, thermostats that know your social security number, self-driving cars that are programmed to kill black people, fighter jets that suffocate their pilots, $1000 insulin, smartphones that break after 24 hours of use, and so much more.

    Economists almost unanimously say that social security is failing and will have to be cut back.
    And yet you link to none of them. Why?

    It's not a secret, it has been looming over us for decades. Some states are even around 20 percent and are ready to fall apart.
    And yet they have more than enough money to give to private prisons, military contractors, and other programs whose sole purpose is to expand human misery. Strange...
    Banned from Twitter by Elon, so now I'm your problem.
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  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by breslin View Post
    Those morons have been there forever, do you not think caravans of undocumented people scurrying through the country is a bad sign?
    No, because it isn't happening like you claim it is. But hey, you wouldn't know this considering your posting history screams you don't know what facts are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    You must not know what an embassy is.

    - - - Updated - - -



    For argument's sake, let's say you're right about the militias. So fuckin' what?
    So, white nationalists, that are illegally detaining border jumpers at gunpoint is no big deal? They are kidnapping them, and it isn't anything big to you?

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    Exactly my point. Americans are debating & deciding this among ourselves. We will decide what comes of it, and anyone else's opinions are so much dust.
    They can debate it all they want, but it's still illegal to do so.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    Exactly my point. Americans are debating & deciding this among ourselves. We will decide what comes of it, and anyone else's opinions are so much dust.
    Boy somebody woke up on the wrong side of the Star Spangled Banner this morning.

    It's not really a debate, this is a vigilante group that isn't condoned by the US authorities.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    @Eosia Has you covered, and the US adhere's to international law on asylum.

    Having some losers with guns live out their war fantasies just to terrify and intimidate asylum seekers isnt particularly a group whose side I would defend Thwart.
    Nailed it. Let's not glorify these wannabe punisher weekend warrior types.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    I'm sure they do a good job. Probably is that you don't think critically about what that job is.

    Here, let's run through a thought experiment.

    -What would happen if your boss reported to the police that an employee was stealing office supplies?
    -What would happen if you reported to the police that your boss was stealing your paycheck?



    ...And?



    Charlottesville
    Tree of Life
    Christchurch
    Quebec City

    Maybe you should read a newspaper now and again?



    Well, we're seeing what happens when you give the rich unilateral control over our society. And it's not good.



    Oh no. Then we won't have such fabulous innovations like apps that automate gentrification, thermostats that know your social security number, self-driving cars that are programmed to kill black people, fighter jets that suffocate their pilots, $1000 insulin, smartphones that break after 24 hours of use, and so much more.



    And yet you link to none of them. Why?



    And yet they have more than enough money to give to private prisons, military contractors, and other programs whose sole purpose is to expand human misery. Strange...
    You should try experiencing thought before offering a "thought experiment" as stupid as that. Your employer can't "steal your paycheck". Either they pay you or they don't pay you. And if they don't pay you that is not a criminal matter, it is a civil case. You can't even call the police for that... And if you are stealing office supplies the police will likely not give a shit unless it is worth a decent amount of money. The police don't give a shit if you steal some pens and paper clips from your work, it's not worth their time.

    But to answer the spirit of your dumb question, the police act the same way no matter who did what. They don't just ignore crimes because someone is rich or something, that's something only an idiot would think is reality. Not that it has anything to do with illegal immigrants crossing the border anyway...

    What do you mean "and?" Did you forget what we were talking about? I was explaining why people feel a need to do the government's job and stop literally hundreds of illegal border crossers in one night. If they don't do it, it won't get done obviously. Don't reply to me if you have nothing of value to say.

    I know what white nationalism is and that some of them exist. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand. To bring them up was weird and irrelevant. Someone stopping people from coming here illegally isn't automatically a white nationalist. Being a white nationalist doesn't even apply as an example because it isn't actually illegal to be a white nationalist. It IS illegal to cross the border the way these people did, though.

    What happens when you give the rich control? You end up with the wealthiest nation in the fucking world. They don't have unilateral control and that is irrelevant even if they did. I was explaining why people dont want mass numbers of immigrants coming here getting free shit everyone else is forced to pay for. The solution to that is not to let them keep coming here and just steal more money from the rich and scare them out of the country making the rest of us even more poor. That makes no sense. Keep your tiny socialist dick in your pants and stay on topic.

    I don't link them because it's a waste of time. I don't care if you understand it or not, your opinion is irrelevant to me. Go look it up if you want to learn.

    Something you weirdos always forget to realize is IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY. It's THEIR money. They get to do what they want with it. You get to spend your money on dragon dildos and starbucks, they get to spend their money on making more money. The government isn't even constitutionally allowed to take your money through taxes to give to someone else yet they already do it by saying they are using it to provide you a service. If you want the rich to pay for illegal immigrants to live here then ask them to do it. That's what charity is for. They won't, obviously, but they also don't have to. It's not anyone's responsibility to work for someone else's benefit. And again, it doesn't matter if you think you are god and get to steal their money to help people, you don't have the power to do that. They will leave and we will end up with fewer taxes for all the dumb shit you are trying to steal money to pay for.
    Last edited by Citizen T; 2019-04-21 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Infracted for trolling

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post

    What happens when you give the rich control? You end up with the wealthiest nation in the fucking world.
    Not really. There are a lot of reasons why the US is as wealthy as it is. That's not just because 'the rich are in control'. Heck, a lack of regulation is what caused the last major economic crisis. Giving the rich too much control often leads to market failures, especially in the form of monopolies. The US requires a certain balance between allowing the rich to get richer and reining them in, so that it can remain one of the wealthiest nations.

  14. #294
    Aaaaaaaaaaand arrested.

    F.B.I. Arrests Leader of Right-Wing Militia That Detained Migrants in New Mexico

    ALBUQUERQUE — The F.B.I. on Saturday arrested the leader of a right-wing militia that was detaining migrant families at gunpoint near the border in southern New Mexico, as the group faced a torrent of criticism for its tactics.

    Hector Balderas, New Mexico’s attorney general, said federal agents had arrested the leader, Larry Mitchell Hopkins, who had been operating under the alias Johnny Horton Jr. Mr. Balderas said in a statement that Mr. Hopkins was arrested on charges of firearms possession by a felon.

    “This is a dangerous felon who should not have weapons around children and families,” Mr. Balderas said. “Today’s arrest by the F.B.I. indicates clearly that the rule of law should be in the hands of trained law enforcement officials, not armed vigilantes.”

    The firearms charge against Mr. Hopkins is relatively minor. But it is likely the start of a deeper investigation into his activities and those of the militia, and opens the way for the authorities to bring more serious charges like kidnapping and impersonating a police officer or an employee of the United States.

    Mr. Hopkins’s arrest comes as tensions rise over ultraconservative paramilitary groups operating along the southwestern border. Professed militias have a long history of targeting immigrants from Latin America, tracing back to the Ku Klux Klan’s creation of its own border patrol in the 1970s. Record numbers of Central American migrants apprehended by federal authorities in recent months have been accompanied by a new surge in militia activity on the border.

    The organization led by Mr. Hopkins, the United Constitutional Patriots, recently uploaded videos of armed members detaining children and their parents in a stretch of the New Mexico desert near El Paso, before handing the migrants over to the Border Patrol.

    Political leaders in New Mexico, a state largely controlled by Democrats, responded with fury. Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham said that any mistreatment of asylum seekers on the border was “unacceptable.” The state’s two Democratic senators, Tom Udall and Martin Heinrich, said in a statement that the actions of vigilante groups “cannot be tolerated.”

    The American Civil Liberties Union denounced the militia’s actions in a letter on Thursday, saying the actions amounted to kidnapping by “racist and armed vigilantes.”

    Still, such denunciations were far from unanimous in the state. A prominent New Mexico Republican, Gavin Clarkson, a former Trump administration official who is now running for United States Senate, met with masked members of the group in March and praised their efforts, according to a video of the encounter uploaded to Facebook.

    But Mr. Clarkson said on Twitter on Saturday that he condemned militia activities. “Masked militiamen are the antithesis of what a free republic looks like,” he said.

    Jim Benvie, a spokesman for the militia, did not immediately respond to requests for comment about the arrest of Mr. Hopkins.

    The F.B.I. said in a statement that the police department of Sunland Park, N.M., had assisted with the arrest. Mr. Hopkins, 69, is scheduled to appear on Monday in Federal District Court in Las Cruces, N.M.

    Mr. Hopkins, whose residence is in Flora Vista in northwest New Mexico, had already come under the scrutiny of groups tracking right-wing militias around the United States. He was convicted in 2006 for impersonating an officer and for felony firearm possession, according to The Daily Beast.

    Despite the recent criticism over its operations in New Mexico, the militia led by Mr. Hopkins maintains a wide reach on Facebook and YouTube.

    Speaking to someone using a voice distorter while wearing a gas mask, Mr. Hopkins appeared on a right-wing extremist YouTube channel in November. He claimed to be in touch with President Trump after a chance meeting at a Las Vegas casino.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/u...ew-mexico.html

    Well I guess that settles that. They're criminals.
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  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Not really. There are a lot of reasons why the US is as wealthy as it is. That's not just because 'the rich are in control'. Heck, a lack of regulation is what caused the last major economic crisis. Giving the rich too much control often leads to market failures, especially in the form of monopolies. The US requires a certain balance between allowing the rich to get richer and reining them in, so that it can remain one of the wealthiest nations.
    Yeah I wouldn't attribute it to just that and the words don't accurately reflect my point out of context. We were talking about how low taxes attracts business which in turn means economic growth. In contrast he was saying that taxing the rich would bring some golden age of equality and prosperity which is not reality. No matter how corrupt you think corporations are and how greedy the rich are, it is not a problem you can solve by trying to take their money against their will.

    I think clean and efficient regulations and punishing of economic crimes are important. A lot of problems we have are the result of the government not doing its job. We already have laws and systems to fix these problems. Things like the Disney/Fox merger should never have been allowed to go through and the government knows that. They also don't care because centralization of american businesses means more power in the global market and by extension more taxes for them. What foreign company is going to compete with Disney now? Forget that it also means other americans can't compete with them either and they run everything now...the government doesn't give a shit about that. They are willing to throw the average american under the bus and then just give them pity bucks through welfare rather than do their job of protecting labor and small businesses so people can take their economic wellbeing into their own hands.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Aaaaaaaaaaand arrested.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/u...ew-mexico.html

    Well I guess that settles that. They're criminals.
    One of them is a criminal. Do you ever read your articles? You just link things all the time and don't seem to understand what they say...no offense. One guy illegally owning a firearm because he's a felon does not mean the rest of them broke any laws. They weren't "impersonating police officers", that's ridiculous. As far as we know everything they did was legal unless they can figure out some details we aren't aware of. Also it says the charge is unlikely to be a big deal but having a gun as a felon can get you in jail for decades depending on certain factors. This article is trash--not that we could expect anything else these days. It's probably written for the exact reason you linked it, because people don't read anything anymore and they think if the leader got arrested that means the whole operation was proven illegal and wrong even though his arrest had nothing to do with it.

  16. #296
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    I AM trying to do it legally (which is why I've been waiting almost six years to make it)

    The problem is, even when people do it legally, you get racist assholes like these armed terrorists, treating us like criminals.

    Just so we're clear, if I get a Tourist Visa, and enter the country simply by buying a plane ticket, and once my feet are in US soil and I request Asylum, then my stay in the united states of america IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.

    Even without a green card, even without a migrant visa. All you need is to enter the country, and plead your case for asylum. They'll either approve it, or reject it (its not as easy to get it approved as the bigots think, its actually a brutal uphill battle, that takes a lot of blood sweat and tears to go through, which is why it cannot be done outside of the US) but until the process is done, we have the constitutional-given right to stay in the US, and not have to put up with this shit.
    I am glad you are trying to do it legally. I wish you luck in having asylum granted. I also agree it should not take 6 years.

    Terrorism is a crime here and if those are terrorists, they will be arrested and charged with such. Terrorists also are not allowed to have firearms. So far, only one of them have been arrested and it was because he is a felon and was not allowed to have a firearm. You need to get use to the Constitutional rights of the US citizens to keep and carry firearms in most states if you want to live here.
    Last edited by Ghostpanther; 2019-04-21 at 12:27 PM.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
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  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    One of them is a criminal. Do you ever read your articles?
    Oh yeah, just one guy, the leader. LOL.

    Just to reiterate:

    “Today’s arrest by the F.B.I. indicates clearly that the rule of law should be in the hands of trained law enforcement officials, not armed vigilantes.”
    ...
    But Mr. Clarkson said on Twitter on Saturday that he condemned militia activities. “Masked militiamen are the antithesis of what a free republic looks like,” he said.
    How embarrassing for you, dip. Maybe you should try reading the article.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiase View Post
    What part of "fucked up brainwashed right wingers" was too hard for your brain to comprehend?
    I think he mentally translates that as "brave American patriots". Perception filter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    Yeah I wouldn't attribute it to just that and the words don't accurately reflect my point out of context. We were talking about how low taxes attracts business which in turn means economic growth. In contrast he was saying that taxing the rich would bring some golden age of equality and prosperity which is not reality. No matter how corrupt you think corporations are and how greedy the rich are, it is not a problem you can solve by trying to take their money against their will.

    I think clean and efficient regulations and punishing of economic crimes are important. A lot of problems we have are the result of the government not doing its job. We already have laws and systems to fix these problems. Things like the Disney/Fox merger should never have been allowed to go through and the government knows that. They also don't care because centralization of american businesses means more power in the global market and by extension more taxes for them. What foreign company is going to compete with Disney now? Forget that it also means other americans can't compete with them either and they run everything now...the government doesn't give a shit about that. They are willing to throw the average american under the bus and then just give them pity bucks through welfare rather than do their job of protecting labor and small businesses so people can take their economic wellbeing into their own hands.
    I can't really find him saying that, to be honest. But that is just the kind of distortion that happens during a discussion, haha.
    Anyway, taxes are certainly part of the equation, as they are another hallmark sign of the US being more of a Liberal Market Economy (LME). It is arguable how much effect a change in taxation would really have (within reasonable limits, of course). The Laffer Curve, while not exactly to be taken as gospel, does have some reasonably good arguments in this regard, given that moving out of the US comes with heavy cost & opportunity cost.

    And yet, both due to the fear of losing growth when antagonizing big corporations and good old lobbying, it does not come to bear. It's another case of the government not doing its job - either because they do not want to, or because they do not dare to. One of the strengths of an LME - the relative power of corporations - is also one of its weaknesses. The US is walking a thin rope, and to many Americans, especially those who feel that corporations throw them under the bus, it is going a bit too far at the moment. I have not done sufficient analyses on the issue to tell whether they are correct or not in that, though.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiase View Post
    What part of "fucked up brainwashed right wingers" was too hard for your brain to comprehend? Do I need to break it down for someone of your.....calibre....to understand? I was talking about normal citizens forming armed militia and detaining people. *sigh* Guess I really can't expect much from you people =/
    "It's okay if the government is racist in denmark. It's only bad when right wingers in america are racist because they're brainwashed."

    Riiiight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Oh yeah, just one guy, the leader. LOL.

    Just to reiterate:



    How embarrassing for you, dip. Maybe you should try reading the article.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think he mentally translates that as "brave American patriots". Perception filter.
    Don't get confused. You said that "they're criminals". This article does not say anyone is a criminal except for the one guy who broke a law completely unrelated to the act of forming a militia and performing citizens arrest on illegal immigrants. It doesn't indicate what you concluded at all. The article is just political pandering with no substance beyond the fact that one of them broke an unrelated law.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    Don't get confused. You said that "they're criminals". This article does not say anyone is a criminal except for the one guy who broke a law completely unrelated to the act of forming a militia and performing citizens arrest on illegal immigrants. It doesn't indicate what you concluded at all. The article is just political pandering with no substance beyond the fact that one of them broke an unrelated law.
    It's literally a public announcement from the District Attorney.

    Sorry dippie, you picked the wrong side again. Womp womp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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