New Mexico militia detains migrants at gunpoint until Border Patrol arrives

[Mormolyce]

What they are really saying is, "See? This guy who thinks he can take the law into his own hands is an example of why police should be the ones enforcing the law because he's a felon and broke the law himself."

They didn't say what the group itself did was illegal or that they would stop them from doing it in the future. It's just politics. Of course they are going to act like they don't like it, that doesn't mean they can do anything about it. Politicians and officials always also condemn white nationalist groups etc, that doesn't mean they can arrest them or stop them from exercising their legal rights.

Nope. Try reading this again:

“Today’s arrest by the F.B.I. indicates clearly that the rule of law should be in the hands of trained law enforcement officials, not armed vigilantes.”
...
But Mr. Clarkson said on Twitter on Saturday that he condemned militia activities. “Masked militiamen are the antithesis of what a free republic looks like,” he said.

And no, you don't have a legal right to form a vigilante group.

- - - Updated - - -

there are plenty of uneducated mexicans who are here legally who can still do those jobs

Why Mexicans lol? There's plenty of uneducated white Americans who are there legally who could do those jobs too.

But they don't.

[dippinsawse]

It's one of the most common forms of theft, in fact.




Thank you for proving my point.



Police bust people for stealing dollars worth of stuff all the time.



That's not what you said a few sentences ago.



Well, I have data and facts on my side, so...



Sure it does. Your original point was that the militia were doing what the police do. My point is that what the police do isn't ethical. You haven't debunked that.



My point is that you haven't given a valid reason why anyone should care about immigrants in the country. You've just said they'll be free, and haven't explained why that's supposed to be bad.



No you didn't. That's why you were confused earlier.



That's...not what I said. I said that white nationalists are a bigger security threat than immigrants. Which is true. Further, I said that the people cheering this get upset when minorities defend themselves from white nationalists. Which is also true. Now apologize for lying.



It's almost like the law isn't concerned with our safety, but in protecting the hegemony of the state.



Let's assume this is true. How does the nation's wealth help poor people?






No it isn't. Wealth inequality causes a whole hosts of problems, including increased economic instability.



You didn't explain shit. You were just complaining for no reason.



Who told you that brown people are the reason you're poor?



I'm just correcting your poor assumptions. No reason to yell at me.



FTFY.



No it isn't. Think about it. Who built the Amazon warehouses. Who packages and ships the products? Who built and maintain the website and services? It's not Bezos doing that.



Yes, that sounds like the actions of a class of people who aren't sociopaths.



Oh, like you actually give a shit what the Constitution says.



Ah yes. Philanthropy. That thing that's totally not a tax scam. Sure.



And yet you think that people should be required to work for them in order to live. Strange...



And therein lies the problem, doesn't it?



You ARE aware expats still pay taxes, right?

I clearly wasn't saying it is impossible to withhold payment to an employee that you owe them. There is a reason I said it is a civil matter, because obviously that is a way they can wrong you. What I was highlighting is how silly it is to say they "steal your paycheck". You can't steal something from someone that they don't have. You can owe someone and refuse to pay them what you owe them. Stealing is the act of taking from someone else something that does not belong to you.

You ignored the point anyway. The police aren't going to do something about that. It is not a criminal matter. You have to sue them for the money they owe you, not go to the police. That is why your thought experiment was flawed. How is that "proving your point?" Your point was that the police wouldn't do something about it because they serve the rich or something. My point was that the police wouldn't do something about it because they CAN'T. It is not their domain. That doesn't mean you can't get what you are owed if you follow the proper legal procedures.

Police will bust people for petty theft, sure. If they are in the area and a kid steals a candy bar and the owner of the store wants to press charges they pretty much have to do their job. I wasn't saying they will NEVER punish someone for stealing something of low value. I was saying they are not going to get off their asses and come arrest you at your place of work because your owner is mad that you stole a ream of paper. It's not worth their time and they have other cases they will be "busy" with. If your owner is loud and annoying enough then they might come do something about it but most of the time nothing will come of it. If an employer refuses to pay you what they owe and you follow the correct channels and sue them then you are far more likely to get justice in that situation than an employer being upset about a few office supplies being stolen.

I did not contradict what I said at all. I said that the police act differently depending on if it is actually a crime and how big a crime it is. That does not contradict the idea that they do not act differently to any meaningful systemic degree based on who committed the crime and how rich they are. Someone stealing office supplies, they probably won't care. Someone stealing a thousand dollars worth of equipment from work? They will probably care. An employer taking some loose change off your desk to put in petty cash, probably won't care. Your employer actually stealing a few hundred dollars directly out of your wallet? They will care.

I'm not here to debunk the ridiculous idea that the police are unethical. Go ahead and believe that if you want, there is no point in arguing something so insane. They simply are not unethical. If your argument rests on thinking the world is flat I also would not debunk that either.

If you want to ask why these people should care that illegal immigrants are coming into the country you should have asked that. Most people are against illegal immigration because it introduces crime, drugs, and puts strain on the community/infrastruture and social/tax systems. Illegal immigrants in the US receive tens of thousands of dollars in tax benefits above what they pay per year per household. It is irrelevant either way though. They don't even need a reason. Their reason could even be that they are racist as you seem to believe and it would be totally valid. Those people are here illegally, they broke the law, they can be arrested for it. Whatever motivation the militia group has makes no difference.

Yes I know what white nationalism is, don't be ridiculous. I don't know how anyone could be on the internet the past few years and not hear about them from all the nutters obsessed with seeing racism in everything. I wasn't confused at all. White nationalism just has nothing to do with the topic at hand and your attempt to add it in the discussion was bizarre and irrelevant. No one is saying white nationalists who actually break the law aren't a threat and shouldn't be punished. They are saying that these people who broke the law are correct to be arrested for it. To say that you have seen people in some other situation upset that minorities defended themselves against white nationalists has nothing to do with this situation if it is even true. At best your point was a strawman that because some people think it's okay for white nationalists to break the law then it should be okay for these people to break the law. No one is arguing that so it makes no sense to bring up.

The law is about protecting your rights without enforcing its goals and beliefs on you. The fact that the law doesn't criminalize white nationalism is the OPPOSITE of protecting its own hegemony. The constitution prevents them from making laws like that for precisely the reason that the state doesn't get to decide what you are allowed to believe. It can punish them if they actually DO something wrong, though. White nationalist crimes are just not as common as a lot of people on the far left seem to want it to be which is why we've had several times more hate crime hoaxes than actual hate crimes the past two years.

The nation's wealth helps the poor by giving them jobs that they willingly accept because those jobs benefit them. It's so weird that people say that is them being taken advantage of even though they choose to take those jobs. Without those jobs what would people do? I mean there must be a reason so many people want to come here even though they are poor, if it isn't helping them then why is immigration even such a huge issue? Shouldn't it just be rich people flocking to the US if the system is so beneficial to them at the expense of everyone else?

It was irrelevant to the topic at hand. This thread is not about capitalism or any of that, it's about illegal immigrants being detained via citizens arrest.

Uhhh calling hispanic people "brown" is offensive. And I don't give a fuck what race people are. It has nothing to do with that. I'm also not poor but I do care about the poor people in the US who have to compete with a mass unending influx of competition for their jobs. I also have a problem with the government taking our money and using it to pay for affordable housing, food, healthcare, and other benefits for illegal immigrants to make it possible for them to survive here working for a third of minimum wage. We should not have any industries that run on such cheap labor, we should not allow such competition to cause stagnation of wages for even legal low skill jobs. I don't just blame the illegal immigrants either, I also blame the people who hire them illegally or through visas and I blame the government for not protecting the border and for looking the other way so that their rich friends can make bigger profits from cheap labor that the rest of us have to subsidize.

I wasn't even yelling at you or mad, it was meant to be more lighthearted than it apparently came across. And I don't generally link things to people because they don't usually even read it or understand it and if they were legitimately interested they have google. It's not difficult to find any material on the subject. Instead of asking you would have looked it up and instantly been met with a wall of information to support the claim. People who don't immediately search for confirmation of something they don't believe or understand that they are told is true just prefer to maintain the fantasy of being right rather than being truly informed.

And why do the people working at amazon do that? Because he has money and he pays them money to make them want to do that. They have an agreement that is decided to be satisfactory to both parties. If it is not satisfactory then the worker should not take the job. If you don't want Jeff Bezos to be rich then stop working for him and stop buying his products. If you want equality then make his money worthless. You can't do that as long as you validate the systems that prop him up and give him power because it improves your own life.

You think that is wrong? Then why are you paying a dollar for a candy bar? You are taking advantage of people in africa who grow and harvest the cacao beans despite never having even tasted chocolate before. You should be paying a hundred dollars for that if you adjust it for the difference in cost of living/economy. The cell phone you use? Slave kids work to produce core components that are not produced in any other way, without all of the third world labor and resources used to make it that thing would cost you several thousand dollars. Give up everything you take for granted to help people who are less fortunate than you. Why are you not doing that? You are jeff bezos to someone else in the world. Sell your car, your phone, whatever property you have. Go move to africa and give your money to everyone. You'd be able to make them all rich and still live like a king among them.

What gives you the idea that I don't care what the constitution says?

You keep dodging what I actually say and try to spin it into some pre programmed bad thing about capitalism or something. If you understand that the government should not and legally can't force you to give to charity then the true solution should be to encourage people to give to charity, yes? And if they don't want to, what gives you the right to steal their money and force it to go to charity?

I don't think anyone should be required to work for someone else and no one is. You can complain that you don't have the skills or environment to live on your own and so you are desperate for employment, but that is not anyone else's responsibility, nor should it ever be. What you should be arguing for is not wealth redistribution or anything silly like that which would just make you even more reliant on the success of the rich and massive corporations. You should be arguing for the government to do its job to protect competition and economic freedom by breaking up monopolies, ending its subsidizing of cheap labor through taxes which otherwise wouldn't exist without taxes making it viable to come here illegally and work for so little money, and stopping the devaluation of labor due to mass immigration and globalization.

No, the problem lies in the immoral act of thinking you can just steal everyone's money and belongings because they have more than you.

Expats have several ways of avoiding taxes in the US like not having to pay if they file taxes paid to another country or if they renounce citizenship. There are a ton of ways to avoid dealing with higher taxes being imposed on them. There is a reason most of the world massively lowered marginal tax rates the past several decades, because the rich in this day and age have no home. They go wherever is most beneficial to them and they send their jobs wherever it will make them the most money. The only ones you would be punishing with increased taxes are the "new money" people who are somehow still loyal to the US and if you tax them enough they won't be able to compete and you just end up right back at square one with the "old money" people calling the shots.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope. Try reading this again:



And no, you don't have a legal right to form a vigilante group.

But they don't.

I'm not going to keep going in circles with you if you don't make an argument. Explain what crime was committed and show where they explicitly said that crime was committed. Otherwise you are simply wrong.

Vigilantism isn't a crime either though I wouldn't say you have a "right" to be a vigilante. But that is beside the point.

[Ghostpanther]

Sure but then there would be a jury deciding the case, and that is where justice dies (in my opinion).

- - - Updated - - -



They did, because they didn't have a legally valid reason to arrest anyone.

My opinion is I much rather be tried by a jury of my peers than some single judge who may have thier own personal feelings about the subject. It is one of the most important foundations of our judicial system.

Then why is it taking them this long to arrest them? Unless I missed that news.

[ZazuuPriest]

Of course not it was Dark Lord Soros the Sith Master who ran the Shadow Government that controlled the U.S. Government who personally lead the genocide of the white race at the Christmas Day Bowling Green Massacre that killed over 1 million white babies in their mother's womb. Jesus man learn your history.

- - - Updated - - -



Hmm better then the far more numerous uneducated white people who won't do the jobs and instead live on welfare checks in their trailers.

its called cost benefit analysis, even if you could make twice as much as you get from welfare for doing a shitty job why would you let the mexicans do it and relax

[Mistame]

Just because you are running from a bad place does not give you the right to enter the US illegally.

Technically true, but also retarded. Eg: Just because you're being chased by an armed mugger doesn't give you the right to jaywalk.

For the arrest to be viable that is correct. For the detention to be legal that is not correct. They must only have a reasonable belief that the crime was committed.

And what felony-equivalent crime is it that they're projecting onto these refugees to justify said detention?

[zenkai]

That is completely and 100% incorrect. If you are seeking asylum, you enter the country the LEGAL way. Hopping a fence, fording a river, that's not how you do things. Just because you are running from a bad place does not give you the right to enter the US illegally. People like you are the reason this is becoming such a fucking issue.

(and no, before you whine that I called you out and you call me a trump supporter, I'd put a bullet in that muppet's forehead the second I got the chance)

I agree and...

Why does everyone here assume all of Mexico is a shithole? If I lived in a bad part of town in Chicago, I wouldn't go hop the fence into Canada, I would move to a different area.

[Derah]

No it is not an exception. Here is decent article from a slightly left leaning source that explains it pretty clearly.

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigrat...-america-legal

Even if this is the case, if you are so uppity about people entering the country illegally, maybe, hear me out, just MAYBE, don't make the legal way such a pain in the ass.

I've been legally trying to enter the US for a long time, to plead for political asylum because I am being targeted in my home country (Venezuela). Already I've survived two attempts on my life, one of them by pure miracle of God as I was shot two times in the chest (If one of those shots had been a few inches to the left, I wouldn't be alive to type this), and have had to spend the last 3 years in hiding, never staying in one place for more than a couple of months.

You know how long I've had to wait for the "legal" way to enter the US? SIX FUCKING YEARS.

Main reason I haven't entered the country illegally is because there's no viable way for me to do so, and because I see it as jumping from a frying pan into another pan. No point leaving a country where I'm persecuted, only to enter another country where I'll be persecuted again.

But a lot of other people don't have the same luxury as I am and are in immediate danger. They don't have the luxury of waiting six years for the legal way to let them in.

Answer me this: We can both agree that if you're driving, you're supposed to respect the traffic lights. You see a red light, you stop. If you keep driving through a red light, you're breaking the law. But if a serial killer, covered in your wife's blood is chasing you, with the express intention of murdering you, raping your corpse, and butchering your remains ala buffalo bill, don't you think its perfectly excusable for you to skip that red light?

Come on, what else are you supposed to do? Let a maniac slaughter you just so you don't break a minor infraction? Once you're safe from the threat that's endangering your life, okay, pay a fine and be done with it.

Same for asylum seekers who enter the country illegally. They still have the right to be heard, to plead their case, to attempt to save their lives. Once their case has been processed, be it that they approve or deny their asylum request, have them pay a fine for entering the country illegally. Presto, problem solved. This doesn't have to be so complicated.

Or maybe just make the legal way less of a pain in the ass, so that people who are in fear for their lives, are not so tempted by the siren song of just sneaking in and hope for the best.

[zenkai]

Even if this is the case, if you are so uppity about people entering the country illegally, maybe, hear me out, just MAYBE, don't make the legal way such a pain in the ass.

I've been legally trying to enter the US for a long time, to plead for political asylum because I am being targeted in my home country (Venezuela). Already I've survived two attempts on my life, one of them by pure miracle of God as I was shot two times in the chest (If one of those shots had been a few inches to the left, I wouldn't be alive to type this), and have had to spend the last 3 years in hiding, never staying in one place for more than a couple of months.

You know how long I've had to wait for the "legal" way to enter the US? SIX FUCKING YEARS.

Main reason I haven't entered the country illegally is because there's no viable way for me to do so, and because I see it as jumping from a frying pan into another pan. No point leaving a country where I'm persecuted, only to enter another country where I'll be persecuted again.

But a lot of other people don't have the same luxury as I am and are in immediate danger. They don't have the luxury of waiting six years for the legal way to let them in.

Answer me this: We can both agree that if you're driving, you're supposed to respect the traffic lights. You see a red light, you stop. If you keep driving through a red light, you're breaking the law. But if a serial killer, covered in your wife's blood is chasing you, with the express intention of murdering you, raping your corpse, and butchering your remains ala buffalo bill, don't you think its perfectly excusable for you to skip that red light?

Come on, what else are you supposed to do? Let a maniac slaughter you just so you don't break a minor infraction? Once you're safe from the threat that's endangering your life, okay, pay a fine and be done with it.

Same for asylum seekers who enter the country illegally. They still have the right to be heard, to plead their case, to attempt to save their lives. Once their case has been processed, be it that they approve or deny their asylum request, have them pay a fine for entering the country illegally. Presto, problem solved. This doesn't have to be so complicated.

Or maybe just make the legal way less of a pain in the ass, so that people who are in fear for their lives, are not so tempted by the siren song of just sneaking in and hope for the best.

There is an argument to be made to revamp things like work visas and the path of censorship. But your argument is more of, "well if you dont want people stealing cars, how about you don't make them so expensive" Your argument basically pisses all over the people who did come in and enter the legally way.

[Mistame]

There is an argument to be made to revamp things like work visas and the path of censorship. But your argument is more of, "well if you dont want people stealing cars, how about you don't make them so expensive" Your argument basically pisses all over the people who did come in and enter the legally way.

That's a pretty ridiculous analogy. Try, "If you don't want people stealing food, give them a way to feed their families until they can get on their feet."

[zenkai]

That's a pretty ridiculous analogy. Try, "If you don't want people stealing food, give them a way to feed their families until they can get on their feet."

But it's not because people don't travel to other countries to steal food.

[Draco-Onis]

But it's not because people don't travel to other countries to steal food.

But the wait time has nothing to do with qualifications but inefficiencies and lack of funding especially in the administration.

[Derah]

Your argument basically pisses all over the people who did come in and enter the legally way.

No it doesn't.

There's plenty of reasons why people emigrate. Some do so because they want a better job, or are offered one, some do so because they like the culture better, and so on.

Others, do so because they are in genuine fear for their lives. Because if they stay where they are, they'll DIE. You understand that concept right? People who are going to DIE, don't have the luxury of waiting multiple years for the legal way to let them in. Most Asylum Seekers are desperate. People who are not desperate, can learn to wait their turn like everyone else. When you have death squads gunning for your ass, that's a luxury you don't have. Don't compare apples to oranges. Someone moving to america because they want to make a career in hollywood or Silicon Valley, is NOT on the same category as someone who is fleeing from ISIS/Maduro/The Kim Family.

[Shaderas]

No it doesn't.

There's plenty of reasons why people emigrate. Some do so because they want a better job, or are offered one, some do so because they like the culture better, and so on.

Others, do so because they are in genuine fear for their lives. Because if they stay where they are, they'll DIE. You understand that concept right? People who are going to DIE, don't have the luxury of waiting multiple years for the legal way to let them in. Most Asylum Seekers are desperate. People who are not desperate, can learn to wait their turn like everyone else. When you have death squads gunning for your ass, that's a luxury you don't have. Don't compare apples to oranges. Someone moving to america because they want to make a career in hollywood or Silicon Valley, is NOT on the same category as someone who is fleeing from ISIS/Maduro/The Kim Family.

I don't think you'll convince him. Zenkai probably is one of those that would state the rule of law is greater than the value of another person's life. *shrug* I could be wrong though

[Linkedblade]

Even if this is the case, if you are so uppity about people entering the country illegally, maybe, hear me out, just MAYBE, don't make the legal way such a pain in the ass.

I've been legally trying to enter the US for a long time, to plead for political asylum because I am being targeted in my home country (Venezuela). Already I've survived two attempts on my life, one of them by pure miracle of God as I was shot two times in the chest (If one of those shots had been a few inches to the left, I wouldn't be alive to type this), and have had to spend the last 3 years in hiding, never staying in one place for more than a couple of months.

You know how long I've had to wait for the "legal" way to enter the US? SIX FUCKING YEARS.

Main reason I haven't entered the country illegally is because there's no viable way for me to do so, and because I see it as jumping from a frying pan into another pan. No point leaving a country where I'm persecuted, only to enter another country where I'll be persecuted again.

But a lot of other people don't have the same luxury as I am and are in immediate danger. They don't have the luxury of waiting six years for the legal way to let them in.

Answer me this: We can both agree that if you're driving, you're supposed to respect the traffic lights. You see a red light, you stop. If you keep driving through a red light, you're breaking the law. But if a serial killer, covered in your wife's blood is chasing you, with the express intention of murdering you, raping your corpse, and butchering your remains ala buffalo bill, don't you think its perfectly excusable for you to skip that red light?

Come on, what else are you supposed to do? Let a maniac slaughter you just so you don't break a minor infraction? Once you're safe from the threat that's endangering your life, okay, pay a fine and be done with it.

Same for asylum seekers who enter the country illegally. They still have the right to be heard, to plead their case, to attempt to save their lives. Once their case has been processed, be it that they approve or deny their asylum request, have them pay a fine for entering the country illegally. Presto, problem solved. This doesn't have to be so complicated.

Or maybe just make the legal way less of a pain in the ass, so that people who are in fear for their lives, are not so tempted by the siren song of just sneaking in and hope for the best.

Red lights normally don't have armed guards

[zenkai]

No it doesn't.

There's plenty of reasons why people emigrate. Some do so because they want a better job, or are offered one, some do so because they like the culture better, and so on.

Others, do so because they are in genuine fear for their lives. Because if they stay where they are, they'll DIE. You understand that concept right? People who are going to DIE, don't have the luxury of waiting multiple years for the legal way to let them in. Most Asylum Seekers are desperate. People who are not desperate, can learn to wait their turn like everyone else. When you have death squads gunning for your ass, that's a luxury you don't have. Don't compare apples to oranges. Someone moving to america because they want to make a career in hollywood or Silicon Valley, is NOT on the same category as someone who is fleeing from ISIS/Maduro/The Kim Family.

So you're saying everyone in Mexico is fear of their lives that they will die, the whole place is like Mad Max? Why not just move to a better part of the country? Have you been to Mexico? Some of it is a paradise, I would rather live there than the shithole parts of LA full of homeless people, or some backwater Texas town.

[Eosia]

And you seem to keep forgetting entering the us illegally is a crime. And are allowed to be detained, for committing a crime.

And please, enlighten us as to which [New Mexico State Law was violated? Because border crossing is under the jurisdiction of Federal Law. There is NO federal "Citizen's Arrest". Period.

So the only peoiple committing a crime in this scenarios as far as the State of New Mexico is concerned, are a group of armed, white terrorists.

That is completely and 100% incorrect. If you are seeking asylum, you enter the country the LEGAL way. Hopping a fence, fording a river, that's not how you do things. Just because you are running from a bad place does not give you the right to enter the US illegally. People like you are the reason this is becoming such a fucking issue.

Sorry, but once again I am going to go with what the United States Citizenship & Immigration Services says. Not some guy on the Internet, whether you support Trump or not. Especially since they are an authoritative source and you are not. It has already been linked and quoted several times in this thread. You need to be physically in the US borders no matter how you got in and your current immigration states is irrelevant.

there are plenty of uneducated mexicans who are here legally who can still do those jobs

But you're too busy harassing them with your racist crap. Remember what happened after Arizona, Alabama, and Georgia passed their immigration laws? Their farming industry suffered because all their workers left and they could not replace them. One guy in Alabama even recruited the unemployed to work on a tomato farm... only three were left after a month. Construction also took a hit.

Alabama also had the distinction of arresting executives from both Mercedez-Benz and Honda under their draconian "show me your papers" laws. The Honda executive was arrested in spite of the fact that he had a valid Japanese passport (now the most valuable in the world), an international driver's license, and a US work permit that he showed the officer.

[zenkai]

And please, enlighten us as to which [New Mexico State Law was violated? Because border crossing is under the jurisdiction of Federal Law. There is NO federal "Citizen's Arrest". Period.

So the only peoiple committing a crime in this scenarios as far as the State of New Mexico is concerned, are a group of armed, white terrorists.



Sorry, but once again I am going to go with what the United States Citizenship & Immigration Services says. Not some guy on the Internet, whether you support Trump or not. Especially since they are an authoritative source and you are not. It has already been linked and quoted several times in this thread. You need to be physically in the US borders no matter how you got in and your current immigration states is irrelevant.



But you're too busy harassing them with your racist crap. Remember what happened after Arizona, Alabama, and Georgia passed their immigration laws? Their farming industry suffered because all their workers left and they could not replace them. One guy in Alabama even recruited the unemployed to work on a tomato farm... only three were left after a month. Construction also took a hit.

Alabama also had the distinction of arresting executives from both Mercedez-Benz and Honda under their draconian "show me your papers" laws. The Honda executive was arrested in spite of the fact that he had a valid Japanese passport (now the most valuable in the world), an international driver's license, and a US work permit that he showed the officer.

Please don't bring race into this, you have no idea that they are all white and to assume they are is in fact racist.

[Linkedblade]

And please, enlighten us as to which [New Mexico State Law was violated? Because border crossing is under the jurisdiction of Federal Law. There is NO federal "Citizen's Arrest". Period.

So the only peoiple committing a crime in this scenarios as far as the State of New Mexico is concerned, are a group of armed, white terrorists.



Sorry, but once again I am going to go with what the United States Citizenship & Immigration Services says. Not some guy on the Internet, whether you support Trump or not. Especially since they are an authoritative source and you are not. It has already been linked and quoted several times in this thread. You need to be physically in the US borders no matter how you got in and your current immigration states is irrelevant.



But you're too busy harassing them with your racist crap. Remember what happened after Arizona, Alabama, and Georgia passed their immigration laws? Their farming industry suffered because all their workers left and they could not replace them. One guy in Alabama even recruited the unemployed to work on a tomato farm... only three were left after a month. Construction also took a hit.

Alabama also had the distinction of arresting executives from both Mercedez-Benz and Honda under their draconian "show me your papers" laws. The Honda executive was arrested in spite of the fact that he had a valid Japanese passport (now the most valuable in the world), an international driver's license, and a US work permit that he showed the officer.

I'm not advocating that the militia is in the right

[Citizen T]

Even if this is the case, if you are so uppity about people entering the country illegally, maybe, hear me out, just MAYBE, don't make the legal way such a pain in the ass.

I've been legally trying to enter the US for a long time, to plead for political asylum because I am being targeted in my home country (Venezuela). Already I've survived two attempts on my life, one of them by pure miracle of God as I was shot two times in the chest (If one of those shots had been a few inches to the left, I wouldn't be alive to type this), and have had to spend the last 3 years in hiding, never staying in one place for more than a couple of months.

You know how long I've had to wait for the "legal" way to enter the US? SIX FUCKING YEARS.

Main reason I haven't entered the country illegally is because there's no viable way for me to do so, and because I see it as jumping from a frying pan into another pan. No point leaving a country where I'm persecuted, only to enter another country where I'll be persecuted again.

But a lot of other people don't have the same luxury as I am and are in immediate danger. They don't have the luxury of waiting six years for the legal way to let them in.

Answer me this: We can both agree that if you're driving, you're supposed to respect the traffic lights. You see a red light, you stop. If you keep driving through a red light, you're breaking the law. But if a serial killer, covered in your wife's blood is chasing you, with the express intention of murdering you, raping your corpse, and butchering your remains ala buffalo bill, don't you think its perfectly excusable for you to skip that red light?

Come on, what else are you supposed to do? Let a maniac slaughter you just so you don't break a minor infraction? Once you're safe from the threat that's endangering your life, okay, pay a fine and be done with it.

Same for asylum seekers who enter the country illegally. They still have the right to be heard, to plead their case, to attempt to save their lives. Once their case has been processed, be it that they approve or deny their asylum request, have them pay a fine for entering the country illegally. Presto, problem solved. This doesn't have to be so complicated.

Or maybe just make the legal way less of a pain in the ass, so that people who are in fear for their lives, are not so tempted by the siren song of just sneaking in and hope for the best.

I'll agree with you that the system needs to be improved, but that is only half the problem. The other half is the number of economic immigrants that come here and abuse the asylum system to try to stay. I understand that there are countries where the quality of life is awful but it is awful for everyone generally. We cannot accept an entire country's population because their government is horrible. The vast majority of people coming here are coming to find a better life not feeling persecution. All of this clogs the system slowing down every aspect of it.

[Mistame]

But it's not because people don't travel to other countries to steal food.

Are you deflecting or did the point go over your head? Comparing a misdemeanor like entering the country illegally to car theft is ridiculous.