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  1. #41
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Not sure what you are asking, the /played for most of those raiders is not a small number. They are not really taking a break after progression raiding are they?
    I don't know but if they did by your definition wouldn't they become more casual than people playing every day? You didn't say anything about /played. Is it not true that people can be casual for a period of time, then much less casual for a while and then repeat that cycle? I have a whole lot of /played time. I'm as casual as they come at this point. I don't log in for a couple of weeks at times. So the state of "casual" versus whatever else you want to call it is transient and can change back and forth, no?

    That's why these discussion are so pointless.

    Like I said earlier, if you self-describe as casual you probably are. Otherwise you are whatever someone else thinks you are. You have no control over that.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2019-04-23 at 02:11 AM.
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  2. #42
    By base casual definition: if you play a game almost everyday you are no longer casual.

    Casual players do not prioritize playing the game in their free time, or make free time so they can play the game.

    Because we're mostly talking about MMOS here, within those communities there are established levels of casual and hardcore, which have taken different definitions beyond their base meanings.

    As for WoW: Hardcore is if you raid or PvP on a near-daily scheduled basis with other players with an intention to progress in some fashion.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    If you play regularily, you are no casual gamer.

    By definition. Playing casually means, you do not play regularily or on a schedule.

    That is what casual gaming was defined as once.

    Today, people like to hate casual gamers, and add a lot of stereotypes to that definition.
    Wrong.

    Casual gamers are the bad players. Hardcore players are the good players. Semi hardcore are the casual players who mis-identify as good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  4. #44
    For me, casual and hardcore is by how much you play. If you play a ton, your hardcore. Like part time job amounts of time. 15-20 + hours a week.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Wrong.

    Casual gamers are the bad players. Hardcore players are the good players. Semi hardcore are the casual players who mis-identify as good.
    Anyone who genuinely believes this are delusional. This is like people believing putting in ungodly hours into a hobby will automatically make you good.

  6. #46
    Someone incapable of performing mechanics and has the inability to do the amount of damage they should be doing, if we're talking Raid/M+. You can take that a step further if we go into tank/heal/dps knowledge and their performance as a whole as well

    Otherwise, it's someone who plays the game in any number of ways to just have fun.

    Also, I would argue that a lot of people's definitions of "semi-hardcore" are actually hardcore, and that it's the "hardcore" definition that is badly defined.
    Last edited by La; 2019-04-23 at 02:33 AM.
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  7. #47
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    My definition of hardcore vs casual is a combination of how hard you try and how much time you put in.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    Also, I would argue that a lot of people's definitions of "semi-hardcore" are actually hardcore, and that it's the "hardcore" definition that is badly defined.
    It might be really hard to be objective in MMORPG's when it comes to healthy time spend versus more. There is nothing casual about heavy time spend, no matter what you do.

    People try to distance themselfs from the "hardcore" tag, since it would bring them closer to the upper limits of time spend for a game.

    So the casual player with 2hours/week have to be victimized by players with 2hours/day, just so they can re-use the tag for themselfs and we even got the 6+hours/day players calling themselfs casuals since they don't play/raid/whatever MORE.
    -

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    It isn't that hard.

    TF/WF? Simple. Look at the item. Does it say LFR on it? Is it 415? Great item. Hand out. Is it that random world trinket I throw in the shredder 4 times a week. Is it 425 with a socket? Great item, sure. Hand out.

    Only someone either extremely dense or lazy could not compute this. Or the more likely its on the internet so punching holes makes me popular game. The actual value of the digits is totally gone in BFA.
    No need to resort to insults. You are saying there is a line in the sand and you determine where that line is, but you are unable to say what that line is? So a mythic raider is a hardcore player? i know heaps of people 1 or 2/9 mythic who are garbage players and simply went with a mate or sneaked into a pug with a geared / experienced mate. They also got some pretty nice mythic warforged gear. Are they hardcore players? Even by their own admission they are not, but you are trying to say they are?

    What about people who buy full clears and obtain gear that way, are THEY hardcore players just because there item says [mythic] instead of [heroic]?

    We have confirmed ilvl isnt important, but you are claiming there is an easily definable line to draw, and i am saying there is not. So if its not ilvl, and its not source (since the examples i have provided show where you got the loot doesnt define if you are hardcore / casual), what is it?

    if it is effort put in to obtain the item, then by that definition there are people who only complete normal raids who are hardcore.......

    Easy question - this line of yours - define it.

  10. #50
    The big things to me are commitment and investment. The vast majority of the playerbase is "casual".

    If you raid regularly and are a heroic or mythic raider, or are actively engaged in M+ in the higher ranks, then you're not what I'd call casual. You're invested in the game and actively playing it with the goal of being as good as possible within your skill and availability.

  11. #51
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    I think it all depends on the approach you take to the game. If you don't do progression raiding and don't play the game a lot then I'd say you're casual. If you play the game a lot but don't do progression raiding or you don't play the game a lot but play at a high level, then I'd consider you semi-hardcore. If you play a lot and at a high level then you're hardcore.

    Basically it's the effort you put into the game, whether that's time spent playing or time spent improving your play. I consistently get 90%+ parses in Mythic, but I also only play basically during raids at this point. I'd consider myself semi-hardcore.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    If you play regularily, you are no casual gamer.

    By definition. Playing casually means, you do not play regularily or on a schedule.

    That is what casual gaming was defined as once.

    Today, people like to hate casual gamers, and add a lot of stereotypes to that definition.
    they do it because they are scared of truth how addicted they are to the game.

    that why they try with stuff like "i play casualy " (when in reality they spend 20 hours a week out of which 12 hours on schedule) and many others like this .

  13. #53
    As much as everyone ties "casual" to the difficulty of content I don't fully agree with it. Someone who plays 50 hours a week and only does world quests and RP's is much more hardcore IMO than someone who is 9/9m BOD and only plays 7-10 hours a week.

  14. #54
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    "Do they put time and effort into class research, getting supplies, and encounter prep?"

    If the answer is "No" across they board, they're casual.

    Obviously, if they're not doing anything stronger than Mythic 0 and LFR, there's nothing wrong with that. It becomes a problem when they're weighing down other players by their proven lack of willingness to put in the effort to deserve the rewards. But that's not just being casual, that's expecting to be carried and being a dick.

  15. #55
    If someone plays daily for two hours a day or someone who plays 20 hours over a weekend... both can be casual. If you log in for two, four hour raid nights and that's it... you can be hardcore... these terms are generally pointless. My personal definition is someone who is pushing the highest end game content. It doesn't matter how long they play really... it's hardcore in their commitment to a schedule... whatever that schedule may be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  16. #56
    Im a casual since I only log in for mythic raid 6 hours a week and had a 44 neck level, but I'm not a casual pleb. A regular pleb spends hours every day doing world quests and islands and transmog. A casual logs in occasionally. A casual pleb logs in occasionally and only does a couple world quests or levels alts.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by siskokid21 View Post
    Imo i see it as 3 categories:

    Casual - Where OP lies, and majority of WoW's playerbase. Generally this includes players who only dabble in LFR -> Heroic Raids, Medium keys (around 10-17, below 2k io), or easier PvP content, such as 1-1750 arenas/RBGs or just random ques. I view most of the content that a casual player does, as queable, or puggable without much effort.

    Semi-Hardcore - Where majority of WoW raiders lie. I view this as the average mythic raider, who doesn't push for world firsts or even top 100. You'd see people who clear mythic later in the tier, or not at all in this category. Keys around the 18-21 range (2k-2500 raider.io), and medium pvp ratings (1800-2200). Nearly any player can reach this stage with some time and effort.

    Hardcore - Very small percentage of the WoW community, these are the hall of fame raiders, 2500-3k+ io players, and 2200-3k arena players. These players, invest crazy amounts of time into the game, and generally have very competitive attitudes. Generally your average hardcore player is going to take time off work for raid launches, reroll to the fotm classes, do multiple split raids, maintain multiple geared alts, and spend 80+ hours a week raiding during progression.
    This is pretty good in terms of defining "WoW Casual" vs "WoW Hardcore".
    Hits the major points, rolls them up into pretty clear pictures.

    One common misconception is time spent in game, which I've seen other posts try to claim as a way to define "casual" or "hardcore".
    The difference is in the content in which they participate and the level of skill/coordination those require on an individual level as well as a group level.
    Time spent, it's just one of many metrics that can factor into it, but it alone fails to paint the picture.
    You can be casual playing 60-80 hours a week because you love mog hunting on 12 toons, rare mount farming, pet battles, doing the soloable content, you name it.
    You can waste time running laps in Org for an hour because you're bullshitting on Discord; I would argue about 10% of my play time is this (typically after raid with those who hang around).

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    So, recently me and a friend where arguing about what makes someone a casual gamer

    He called me a hardcore wow player which i then denied as i believe that i am, at least to our communities standards, very casual.
    Basically, we ended up arguing for a good 30 minutes about why i think that both of us are rather casual gamers and not hardcore while he keeps on going that we are at least part of the semi hardcore crowd.

    He isn't a wow player, tho he did try it out one time when legion came out.
    He however is an eso player and claims that he is rather hardcore (which is, to me, complete nonsense as he barely plays the game at all).

    For me, my biggest wow "achievement" was getting ahead of the curve: guldan during legion.
    My raider.io score is pretty low, the highest dungeon i ever did this expansion was a +9 so far.
    I have cleared uldir entirely on normal, only got 3 kills on hc.
    I have just 5 kills in normal BoD, 2 kills in BoD hc.
    I haven't even touched CoS on any difficulty yet.

    Raider.io for reference:
    https://raider.io/characters/eu/aggramar/Sherana
    Armory link is in my sig. (blue text)

    Imo, a casual is someone that has no interest in delving into the higher end game. (aka, higher keystone lvls, mythic raids or high ranked pvp)
    Whether that comes from simple uninterest, or RL reasons, is irrelevant.
    Casuals tend to not play all too much, but definitely can.

    My friend also claimed that because im a fan of wows lore and know most of it, that alone puts me above the casual crowd.
    I disagree entirely on that, as being a lore nerd doesn't make someone automatically good at the game or interested in any of the tougher end game content.

    So, would you consider me a casual gamer?
    If so/not, please give some insight on why you think so and it'd be nice if you could give your opinion on what makes one a casual player generally.
    And do you consider yourself a casual? if so/not, why?

    Note: I know this has been probably talked about to oblivion and beyond already, so mods feel free to close this at any moment you wish.
    Though, i think it'd be interesting where people currently stand, especially seeing as BfA made people change their views quite drastically on this forum alone. (at least from what i have seen/read)
    I'm gonna tell you the fact of what is a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer. None of this is an opinion, those are facts, there will probably be people who disagree, it only means they are wrong and/or uneducated because we live in a time where people believe it's fine to change the definition of words to better fit your narrative, which is terribly wrong of course.

    The terms casual and hardcore come from the playing habits of players, someone who plays just a little (like an hour per day or something) is a casual gamer. Someone who plays a lot is a hardcore gamer. In the industry a hardcore gamer is someone who plays like 5 hours a day maybe more on the weekend but we take into account the fact that people have a life so the gaming time is proportional to the free time someone who works full time still has left. No-lifers (people playing 10+ hours a day) are never really part of the discussion and not considered at all during design discussions, brainstorming and things like that. Why? Because they shouldn't exist first of all, people should do other things with their life instead of playing all day and also because they are such a tiny fraction of the playerbase, it would be ridiculous to design around them.

    The problem with the definition of casual/hardcore comes from the use of the word casual as an insult. Naturally, someone who plays less (a casual) won't be as good as someone who plays a lot (hardcore) so people twisted the definition and some now believe casual means bad, which is stupid, and this is even more obvious in WoW because of the mix-up of players. There's a lot of WoW players who used to be hardcore when they were teenagers with lots of free time, who are now adult casual WoW players because they don't have much time to play (and also because the entire game is designed for casual play now compared to to pre-cata) so we end up with GOOD PLAYERS who are CASUALS (they became good by playing a lot before and are still good today even if they don,t play much). But they still feel insulted if they are called casuals.

    Casual is by definition not an insult, it's like saying "part time gamer", no one makes fun of part time worker so there's no reason to make fun of part time gamers. Not to mention playing a lot (being a hardcore gamer) does no guarantee being good at the game, once again easy to find in WoW, bunch of players play a whole lot and still suck some major fat ass.

    As for the other points mentioned like knowing Lore and stuff, that's not relevant to being a hardcore gamer. You can be a casual gamer who is hardcore fan of the lore, which means you play only a little but like to get deep in the lore, just like there's hardcore gamers who don't give 2 shits about lore. It's unrelated, one doesn't force the other.

    Things like achievements and rankings aren't directly related to being a casual or hardcore. There are people who play just a little today (casual gamers) who are good enough to reach a good arena ranking. You don't become a hardcore player by virtue of your ranking or achievements. It once again comes down to what naturally happens: you play more you get more shit done.


    TL;DR
    Casual and hardcore are only classifications based on amount of time played per days or week or whatever. It doesn't represent skills or talents in any way shape or form regardless of how people use the word, they are using it wrong if they mean something other than playtime. It's unrelated to how much you love or care about a franchise, that's being a hardcore fan, not a hardcore gamer.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    The big things to me are commitment and investment. The vast majority of the playerbase is "casual".

    If you raid regularly and are a heroic or mythic raider, or are actively engaged in M+ in the higher ranks, then you're not what I'd call casual. You're invested in the game and actively playing it with the goal of being as good as possible within your skill and availability.
    See the thing with this is you can do this and only play 8-10 hours a week. Is this 8-10 hour a week player more hardcore than the guy who has 30 alts and plays 60+ hours a week? I don't really think so.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebottom View Post
    See the thing with this is you can do this and only play 8-10 hours a week. Is this 8-10 hour a week player more hardcore than the guy who has 30 alts and plays 60+ hours a week? I don't really think so.
    I'd personally say yes if only because that seems like the commonly accepted way to gauge it by the playerbase. I don't really see people who don't make results of some sort being considered "hardcore".

    I'm going much less by how I personally feel about it and more how I see other people using it. I'd agree but the playerbase seems to not agree. Generally a "hardcore" raider is called such whether they play for 20 hours a week or 90, and a casual would be a player who doesn't seriously raid, pvp or anything in between.

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