So mythic+

[ID811717]

Entire m+ scoring system would make sense if it (somehow) awarded players with the score based on their individual performance, rather than giving every single member of a group the same score no matter what.
Now it's completely irrelevant

M+ score rates your experience, not your skills. Better individual performance will lead to you being able to gain experience in higher keys. But beyond that, it does not even make sense for M+ score to be affected by your individual performance.

[Chillside]

M+ score rates your experience, not your skills. Better individual performance will lead to you being able to gain experience in higher keys. But beyond that, it does not even make sense for M+ score to be affected by your individual performance.

The problem is that experience doesn't necessarily translate to.. anything basically, it's like a sleepy student "attending" a lecture, he's there, but he's not getting anything out of it.
It's mostly tanks that can get away with pretty much anything during easy weeks at the expense of most classes' ability to cleave the s**t out of everything, then another week comes along with new affixes that requires a little more tank involvement and all of a sudden we have all these tanks @ ~2k score without having single a clue about making proper pulls in +15 key. I'm not saying it's all tanks obviously, but the scoring system is extremely unrealiable, especially in that medium 14-18 key range

[Barzotti]

Honestly this would be resolved if they only add negative scores for ppl leaving.

I've had annoying experiences the last few weeks: retarded dps who didn't take into account the affixes. Whether it's on bolstering week (cool, a matron with 3 million HP on Underrot, have fun) or on bursting weeks (small dinos on AD? Better aoe like an ape and blame the healer afterwards!)

I should be penalized because I don't want to be trapped with retards? The +5/+6 keys are a cesspool of atrocious players, and it's nonsense to be penalized because I don't want to deal with other peoples stupidity.

[Evelyn]

find a guild, make friends IG. Then you can easily push your keys and score...

Easier said than done.

[Minikin]

I've had annoying experiences the last few weeks: retarded dps who didn't take into account the affixes. Whether it's on bolstering week (cool, a matron with 3 million HP on Underrot, have fun) or on bursting weeks (small dinos on AD? Better aoe like an ape and blame the healer afterwards!)

I should be penalized because I don't want to be trapped with retards? The +5/+6 keys are a cesspool of atrocious players, and it's nonsense to be penalized because I don't want to deal with other peoples stupidity.

It will be rough at first due to where we are for the months of incomplete data gathering. But it will gain momentum fairly quickly and resolve itself.

Eventually you'd have a metric to see clearly that certain players are detrimental to the key and it would either filter them out more or force them to be better.

[Lenis]

Yes, there are some people that use raider.io incorrectly. There are way more extremely over entitled people. Author said he has 1200 rating. That means he still didn't even time all 12s and he wants to progress 15s. It doesn't make any sense. I myself currently progress 20s, should I be invited to 22s-24s? The answer is NO and I don't. But I am easily invited to 19s that I am missing and some 20s. After I am done with those people will invite me 21s.

Some people spoke about single dungeon rating and so. If I see someone with very few dungeons completed has high rating or some dungeons significantly higher level than others, I assume that it was boost (either bought one or in guild group).

[AgilityTank]

As someone who only did high M+ with a guild i dont understand why/how ppl want to expose themself to this pain.
Good luck with ur key, ull get it done, hopefully sooner than later.

nice sig duder

[Frolk]

nice sig duder

Thanks? 10chars

[Evelyn]

Yes, there are some people that use raider.io incorrectly. There are way more extremely over entitled people. Author said he has 1200 rating. That means he still didn't even time all 12s and he wants to progress 15s. It doesn't make any sense. I myself currently progress 20s, should I be invited to 22s-24s? The answer is NO and I don't. But I am easily invited to 19s that I am missing and some 20s. After I am done with those people will invite me 21s.

So if you've done 21's in time, you think it's asking too much to be let into a 22? That is closer to what I am talking about. Needing to have timed 12 in all dungeons when a number of dungeons I haven't timed in 12, I've timed in 13 and 14, its a ridiculous requirement.

Another example, the other day I tried to get into a 13 Kings Rest and the leader asked me If I've timed KR 13 before. I said no, I had only timed a 12 KR. He said sorry not good enough then put me on ignore. Which was strange because I wasn't harassing him or anything. I just replied with lol? Then you have people who haven't even completed said dungeon on that level in time demanding that others looking to join, have, or higher. But I'm entitled for thinking excessive requirements are excessive. Like those entitled millennial's. They want a job but lack an x amount of experience but aren't given a chance to get experience aka field experience loop.

I didn't even do any of the dungeons or normal/heroic/mythic. I either read up or watched quick videos and started with an 8 and was doing 10s later my first week. If people have gear and skill and knowledge of dungeons and affix, they can do well and skip levels in their climb. Obviously I don't expect to be skipping* many levels at high mythic+ but 1-2 is not out of the question. I'd consider you an elitist for expecting everyone to jump through an x number of hoops to gain your respect and trust that they are capable, when it is clearly not necessary to prove oneself capable.

Some people spoke about single dungeon rating and so. If I see someone with very few dungeons completed has high rating or some dungeons significantly higher level than others, I assume that it was boost (either bought one or in guild group).

I don't disagree with you here, but that isn't really what is being debated.

I just did a 16 last week and 4 people had lower io than me, one under 1k, and 3 people had lower item level than me. Did I get carried?? We unfortunately didn't make it in time (over by 5 minutes) but that may have something to do with the tank unnecessarily pulling multiple groups at once, which he did 3 damn times to my confusion. They didn't seem to care that the key got killed, but it didn't need to be.

[harruin]

The problem is that experience doesn't necessarily translate to.. anything basically, it's like a sleepy student "attending" a lecture, he's there, but he's not getting anything out of it.
It's mostly tanks that can get away with pretty much anything during easy weeks at the expense of most classes' ability to cleave the s**t out of everything, then another week comes along with new affixes that requires a little more tank involvement and all of a sudden we have all these tanks @ ~2k score without having single a clue about making proper pulls in +15 key. I'm not saying it's all tanks obviously, but the scoring system is extremely unrealiable, especially in that medium 14-18 key range

Yeah it's annoying (especially sanguine week), but it at least shows they're carryable.

[Chillside]

Yes, there are some people that use raider.io incorrectly. There are way more extremely over entitled people. Author said he has 1200 rating. That means he still didn't even time all 12s and he wants to progress 15s. It doesn't make any sense. I myself currently progress 20s, should I be invited to 22s-24s? The answer is NO and I don't. But I am easily invited to 19s that I am missing and some 20s. After I am done with those people will invite me 21s.
.

That only works as long as you're playing a certain class though

[shyguybman]

The problem is that experience doesn't necessarily translate to.. anything basically, it's like a sleepy student "attending" a lecture, he's there, but he's not getting anything out of it.
It's mostly tanks that can get away with pretty much anything during easy weeks at the expense of most classes' ability to cleave the s**t out of everything, then another week comes along with new affixes that requires a little more tank involvement and all of a sudden we have all these tanks @ ~2k score without having single a clue about making proper pulls in +15 key. I'm not saying it's all tanks obviously, but the scoring system is extremely unrealiable, especially in that medium 14-18 key range

Like I've seen some people say, raider io score just means you've played a lot not that you're good.

[Chillside]

Like I've seen some people say, raider io score just means you've played a lot not that you're good.

Yeah, and you'd think those two would be correlated... but not necessarily

[ydraw]

So if you've done 21's in time, you think it's asking too much to be let into a 22? That is closer to what I am talking about. Needing to have timed 12 in all dungeons when a number of dungeons I haven't timed in 12, I've timed in 13 and 14, its a ridiculous requirement.

Another example, the other day I tried to get into a 13 Kings Rest and the leader asked me If I've timed KR 13 before. I said no, I had only timed a 12 KR. He said sorry not good enough then put me on ignore. Which was strange because I wasn't harassing him or anything. I just replied with lol? Then you have people who haven't even completed said dungeon on that level in time demanding that others looking to join, have, or higher. But I'm entitled for thinking excessive requirements are excessive. Like those entitled millennial's. They want a job but lack an x amount of experience but aren't given a chance to get experience aka field experience loop.

I didn't even do any of the dungeons or normal/heroic/mythic. I either read up or watched quick videos and started with an 8 and was doing 10s later my first week. If people have gear and skill and knowledge of dungeons and affix, they can do well and skip levels in their climb. Obviously I don't expect to be skipped many levels at high mythic+ but 1-2 is not out of the question. I'd consider you an elitist for expecting everyone to jump through an x number of hoops to gain your respect and trust that they are capable, when it is clearly not necessary to prove oneself capable.

I don't disagree with you here, but that isn't really what is being debated.

I just did a 16 last week and 4 people had lower io than me, one under 1k, and 3 people had lower item level than me. Did I get carried?? We unfortunately didn't make it in time (over by 5 minutes) but that may have something to do with the tank unnecessarily pulling multiple groups at once, which he did 3 damn times to my confusion. They didn't seem to care that the key got killed, but it didn't need to be.

Just run your own key and you don't have to worry about any of this crap. That's why keystones exist in the first place.

[Lenis]

So if you've done 21's in time, you think it's asking too much to be let into a 22? That is closer to what I am talking about. Needing to have timed 12 in all dungeons when a number of dungeons I haven't timed in 12, I've timed in 13 and 14, its a ridiculous requirement.

Another example, the other day I tried to get into a 13 Kings Rest and the leader asked me If I've timed KR 13 before. I said no, I had only timed a 12 KR. He said sorry not good enough then put me on ignore. Which was strange because I wasn't harassing him or anything. I just replied with lol? Then you have people who haven't even completed said dungeon on that level in time demanding that others looking to join, have, or higher. But I'm entitled for thinking excessive requirements are excessive. Like those entitled millennial's. They want a job but lack an x amount of experience but aren't given a chance to get experience aka field experience loop.

I didn't even do any of the dungeons or normal/heroic/mythic. I either read up or watched quick videos and started with an 8 and was doing 10s later my first week. If people have gear and skill and knowledge of dungeons and affix, they can do well and skip levels in their climb. Obviously I don't expect to be skipped many levels at high mythic+ but 1-2 is not out of the question. I'd consider you an elitist for expecting everyone to jump through an x number of hoops to gain your respect and trust that they are capable, when it is clearly not necessary to prove oneself capable.

I don't disagree with you here, but that isn't really what is being debated.

I just did a 16 last week and 4 people had lower io than me, one under 1k, and 3 people had lower item level than me. Did I get carried?? We unfortunately didn't make it in time (over by 5 minutes) but that may have something to do with the tank unnecessarily pulling multiple groups at once, which he did 3 damn times to my confusion. They didn't seem to care that the key got killed, but it didn't need to be.

What I meant to say is that having one dungeon at much higher level than your others just means you are not ready to step in that level of dungeons. Yes you might luck out, you might get boosted either by guild or service. It doesn't matter. Journey through Raider.io rating is not exponential curve, nor it is linear. It is more like logistic curve, where you initially learn dungeons and have barely any score, then it starts growing really fast until you reach your current knowledge/skill cap and then goes back to very slow growth as you master the dungeons.

That only works as long as you're playing a certain class though

Yes and no. Yes in sense that group without rogue will always prioritize rogue over any other class even with lower R.io or Prot Warrior will get more opportunities than Guardian Druid. No as people invite those who are proper r.io rating for the content all the time, I have done 18s-20s with all the classes in the game. However, if you meant specs, then yes, there are some dead specs that have no place in M+ pugging world.

Like I've seen some people say, raider io score just means you've played a lot not that you're good.

Playing a lot and playing good has a lot in common. M+ groups dont look for star players who can do +15 on their first skim to the dungeon. They look for someone who knows all the mechanics and their role. That's what R.io is made for.

[Kaver]

Reading this thread...yes I believe it is finally time for Blizzard to address raider.io.

What can Blizzard do? They can’t force good players to play with bad players.

[kamuimac]

What can Blizzard do? They can’t force good players to play with bad players.

ofc they can . thats was one of main principles of VP farming - overgeared people were getting into instances

[Chillside]

Yes and no. Yes in sense that group without rogue will always prioritize rogue over any other class even with lower R.io or Prot Warrior will get more opportunities than Guardian Druid. No as people invite those who are proper r.io rating for the content all the time, I have done 18s-20s with all the classes in the game. However, if you meant specs, then yes, there are some dead specs that have no place in M+ pugging world.

As an experiment i qued into random +17 group, there was a twitch link as a description and i literally watched this guy live picking someone else over me with lower ilvl and lower score.. he said something about shadowpriests in german, i don't know what, but it doesn't matter. He didn't need BL or CR btw, he just needed a random ranged dps
Just for the sake or argument tbh, i didn't even need that dungeon and i don't generally pug either, i just go with my guildies every once in a while, but it's fact, not an opinion, that vast majority of people who make their own groups are generally extremely narrow minded

[Alexeht]

TLDR version of OP post - Pugging sucks and it will always be like that since random people do not care enough about their reputation, also M+ sucks IMO

[Science451]

What can Blizzard do? They can’t force good players to play with bad players.

Despite I don't think that would be a good solution, Blizzard should technically be able to disable (or partially disable) the APIs to the Armory, and that alone could potentially "break" many sites such as raider.io.

This would "force" good players to also play with "baddies", due to good players not having the amount of information you have today to choose a player for your dungeon (what if you were told that you can only choose a player based on their item level and nothing else? ilvl does not mean much without knowing the player's experience, does it).

Third Party add-ons could then be rewritten to gather that specific data directly in-game (and not through APIs), but even then Blizz could forbid the calls from such add-ons to "priviledged" information, making the add-ons useless (let alone that this solution could only work if everyone installed the add-on, so basically forget about it)

All in all to say that if Blizzard wants, they can do whatever they want to "force" the game into other directions.