MoP 2.0 confirmed.How will the Horde feel.

[BaumanKing]

“Your expectations were subverted therefore we are good writers”

More like “My expectations were subverted therefore they are bad writers”

[Amaterasu65]

Sylvanas will be pictured to be making a Zero Requiem plan a la Code Geass, where she will be killed as a tyrant, but will have managed to wipe out future possibilites of war between Horde and Alliance. She will be branded a hero by a few who will know this secretive plan (leaders, character), all the others will have her as a symbol of war and death. There will be peace.

Until we hit Sylvanas of Ressurection arc, where she will be revived as a trump card to defeat the new main villains, maybe involving Shadowlands. Then she will disappear for good to "live" with Nathanos in a faraway land, watching peaceful Azeroth from afar.

I almost vomit while typing this, but seems plausible.

[owbu]

"No Mr. Teacher! I didnt just copy my homework from last week. See? I changed some names and the last sentence is different!"

[Thage]

Well done, you noticed. No one has ever made this comparison before!

At this point, it's so closely mirrored that it just has to be intentional, which probably means we're in for some sort of stupid twist like "Hah! Gotcha! You thought it was Mists 2.0 but thiiiis time Sylvanas is the one in the right! Take that!"

The twist is that they're gonna rip off the ending of SC2: Legacy of the Void instead of the end of MoP. And then they're going to act like it's some high-tier, symbolic storytelling about how Sylvanas freed herself from the shackles of her own paranoia, and Ion's giant fucking skull will get bigger as he smugs on camera about how fans were totally surprised, and Afrasiabi's ponderous noggin shall dramatically increase in size as he says storytelling that pisses people off in how fucking terrible it is is good storytelling because people talk about it.

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I will never understand what possessed them to create that quest.

Going by postmortem interviews, they ran out of time when developing 5.3. Seeing all the Horde content that got cut (including a 'liberate Undercity' scenario and a quest to hold a hill with Rexxar) suggests that the Alliance stealth mission was a last-minute addition because they hadn't even started on the Alliance side of the patch when they realized they were short on time.

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What annoys me the most is that they're pretending this isn't Garrosh 2.0 because Sylvanas wont let herself get captured. As if the most important defining aspect of Garrosh was that he got captured.

Ion was a lawyer before joining Blizzard. The man still carries every discussion as if he's in the courtroom where wiggle words and semantics are more important than context and intent.

[Zulkhan]

So, people are still not realizing that they made it to look exactly like in MOP on purpose so they can do the lame plot-twist? alright, it would be better if it was jsut mop 2.0 and we would not need to endure their twists, like kerrigan 2.0

I think a "twist" is painfully necessary when the writers decide to follow in a such a religiously devoted way the "MoP trope", it all depends on the quality of the twist. In my opinion, the better way to end Sylvanas' storyline is to turn her into a "necessary evil" that was killed as such but that, at least on the Horde side, will be regarded in a slightly better light for whatever "big pictured" action she did to obtain some kind of long-term benefit (either regarding the Alliance-Horde war or the conflict against the Void/Old Gods). In other words, it will be fine as long Sylvanas covers a semi-heroic role that will grant her redemption and a worthy closure of her storyline as long she's not universally regarded as such (which means not repeating something even slightly akin to what occurred with Illidan).

[AngryTenko]

Blizzard wants the Horde to be a "noble savage/honorable barbarian" faction. If you don't like the direction, go play another game where the story is more to your taste. I, as someone who's been playing for almost 10 years and likes the WC3 style horde, am very happy with the current development. Fuck Sylvanas.

[Zulkhan]

Thats what should have been done there instead of just pointing with the fingers at the horde.

The Alliance's position at the end of MoP wasn't strong enough to allow that; they should have dethroned Garrosh single-handely while properly dismantling the entirety of the Horde's military, not just the soldiers, artifacts and technology at Garrosh's exclusive disposal.

[czarek]

Seems a bit farfetched that she will become lich queen just to defeat the alliance.

I don't get the Illidan comment, I didn't say he was?

Why not? She could choose this way easly decide to sacrafice her self in the name of horde. But we know how this power can twist mind. She could belive it that she can handle it and grow as hostile against both factions to made her new world order.

I know you didnt but i compare your idea that she cant be boss for both factions. Illidan can so she can also. Because why not? Honestly blizzard can do anything they want.

[justandulas]

Blizzard wants the Horde to be a "noble savage/honorable barbarian" faction. If you don't like the direction, go play another game where the story is more to your taste. I, as someone who's been playing for almost 10 years and likes the WC3 style horde, am very happy with the current development. Fuck Sylvanas.

and some of us prefer more adult story lines. No need to be so childish about it.

personally, sylvanas is about the only warchief ive ever respected as the horde. If you wanna play a hero, go play the alliance.

We are literally a collection of every monster race from every fantasy ever. We are orcs, goblins, drug addict elves, minotaurs, flesh eating zombies.... in what twisted reality are we the good guys? EMBRACE THE DARKNESS

[Super Dickmann]

I think a "twist" is painfully necessary when the writers decide to follow in a such a religiously devoted way the "MoP trope", it all depends on the quality of the twist. In my opinion, the better way to end Sylvanas' storyline is to turn her into a "necessary evil" that was killed as such but that, at least on the Horde side, will be regarded in a slightly better light for whatever "big pictured" action she did to obtain some kind of long-term benefit (either regarding the Alliance-Horde war or the conflict against the Void/Old Gods). In other words, it will be fine as long Sylvanas covers a semi-heroic role that will grant her redemption and a worthy closure of her storyline as long she's not universally regarded as such (which means not repeating something even slightly akin to what occurred with Illidan).

While I agree with you in large part on how that's one of the lesser evils available, the bigger risk narratively long-term is not Sylvanas but the Forsaken as a race and the incompatibality of honor and shamanism as the sole quality with more than half the Horde at that point. The worst damage recent material has done is not to Sylvanas as a character, though she has been entirely stripped of depth barring a very unlikely twist, but her relationship with the Forsaken and the Forsaken's identity for fifteen odd years. An identity that's actually held to a certain portrayal unlike the Horde's dance between noblesavagery, nothing and cartoon evil.

@AngryTenko

I'm fine with giving the noblesavage playerbase current MU orcs and the tauren, they're a lost cause. It's that Thrallism is to infest the Forsaken, who've actually held to a real identity for fifteen years before their retcon and the Mag'har, who represent actual orcs that I take issue. The one virtue of Vol'jin as Warchief is that he was compatible with all these directions. Thrall is only compatible with one, and Baine and Saurfang deserve no comment.

[Kumorii]

Why not? She could choose this way easly decide to sacrafice her self in the name of horde. But we know how this power can twist mind. She could belive it that she can handle it and grow as hostile against both factions to made her new world order.

I know you didnt but i compare your idea that she cant be boss for both factions. Illidan can so she can also. Because why not? Honestly blizzard can do anything they want.

Because blizzard said she won't be killed by us or that this wouldn't be a garrosh 2.0. Aka she won't become a raid boss. Blizzard can do what they want ofc, I'm not saying it's not possible to write such a story. Just that based on their statements, it won't happen.

[czarek]

Because blizzard said she won't be killed by us or that this wouldn't be a garrosh 2.0. Aka she won't become a raid boss. Blizzard can do what they want ofc, I'm not saying it's not possible to write such a story. Just that based on their statements, it won't happen.

Ok. Didnt know that that she won't be killed by us. But this doesnt mean that she cant be new LK. Maybe she could lead that? But yeah there is no reason to do this if she wount be killed as raid boss...

[Hellspawn]

@Super Dickmann
Well you poking your finger in a wound thats open since World of Warcraft was introduced. The Forsaken do not fit into the modern Horde. So maybe they want to do something about that but... that does not work with Sylvanas and probably also not Nathanos. So these two have to go.... but what Forsaken are we left with? Lilian Voss... and there is also Derek Proudmoore (in theory also Calia Menethil). These characters would change the Forsaken from evil to like... well, just humans that are dead and live in Lordaeron. No more blighting people except they are clearly evil. No more forcefully resurrect the dead.

[justandulas]

@Super Dickmann
Well you poking your finger in a wound thats open since World of Warcraft was introduced. The Forsaken do not fit into the modern Horde. So maybe they want to do something about that but... that does not work with Sylvanas and probably also not Nathanos. So these two have to go.... but what Forsaken are we left with? Lilian Voss... and there is also Derek Proudmoore (in theory also Calia Menethil). These characters would change the Forsaken from evil to like... well, just humans that are dead and live in Lordaeron. No more blighting people except they are clearly evil. No more forcefully resurrect the dead.

i didn't roll undead warlock back in vanilla to be a "good guy". They need to quit forcing player morality

[Unlimited Power]

Well, they claimed that the next Warchief in MoP would be someone unexpected and it was Vol'jin which everyone expected.

So at this point I'll take anything they say with a grain of salt.

Regardless, whatever inevitable plot twist they come up with, nobody will actually be surprised as there's really not a lot of directions they can take the story, and players have speculated every conceivable twist imaginable.

[Thage]

Because blizzard said she won't be killed by us or that this wouldn't be a garrosh 2.0. Aka she won't become a raid boss. Blizzard can do what they want ofc, I'm not saying it's not possible to write such a story. Just that based on their statements, it won't happen.

I actually think she will become a raid boss. As of 8.2, she's the only Warbringer who hasn't been, and we know from Dazar'Alor and 8.2 broadcast text that both Jaina and Azshara survive their respective encounters. I think we'll end up overthrowing her in a raid, but rather than be put in chains like Garrosh was, she takes her most stringent loyalists, escapes, and creates a new Scourge. This may finally end up alienating Chief Executive Bootlicker Nathanos, who becomes the new Forsaken racial leader (keeping their darker, edgier image intact while also keeping a notable face in charge) and Sylvanas ends up giving Bolvar enough headaches that the Lich King seeks out the Alliance and Horde's aid in taking her down.

That's my guess, at least: Sylvanas raid, she escapes, and the DK class storyline pays off with the Lich King and Four Horsemen coming to us for aid as Sylvanas finds a Macguffin that lets her steal most of the Scourge from Bolvar or something. Why? Warcraft 3: Reforged tie-in.

[Super Dickmann]

@Super Dickmann
Well you poking your finger in a wound thats open since World of Warcraft was introduced. The Forsaken do not fit into the modern Horde. So maybe they want to do something about that but... that does not work with Sylvanas and probably also not Nathanos. So these two have to go.... but what Forsaken are we left with? Lilian Voss... and there is also Derek Proudmoore (in theory also Calia Menethil). These characters would change the Forsaken from evil to like... well, just humans that are dead and live in Lordaeron. No more blighting people except they are clearly evil. No more forcefully resurrect the dead.

Derek and Calia's Forsaken are an Alliance race. In the same way that the post-TBC blood elves and the Nightborne are Alliance races on all thematic levels. They have nothing in common with a Thrall-style honorable savage Horde, as they are more lawful good than chaotic good in alignment, have advanced cities, are established races with no tribal system but organized religion and have far longer running bonds with Alliance races than Horde ones. The blood elves have humans and the draenei, the nightborne (obviously) have the night elves. The Calia Forsaken will have a leadership that ties in more with Anduin and Jaina than it does with others Horde-side and themes with no connection to those races either.

Before the game lost its shit, this wasn't a problem because the Eastern Kingdoms Horde and later the goblins were explicitly their own bolt-on and not part of the Kalimdor Horde. They had different ties and aesthetics. But with the Sunwell being brought back, the closest connection the blood elves had to a Horde race and cast - the Forsaken, was lost. The Forsaken themselves had a lot of interaction with orcs, good and bad in Cataclysm, but remained their own block. But be they what they have been for their entire run time up to now or be they sad humans with a skin condition, they have no place in a Horde defined by tribal honor and shamanism and neither do goblins or any type of elf.

Faction homogenization was always a mistake. It's just an even more obvious mistake now that the factions are such large tents that they have next to nothing in common.

[Demetrion]

Except this time Sylvanas will win and all the traitors will be killed.

The desired outcome.

[Kumorii]

I actually think she will become a raid boss. As of 8.2, she's the only Warbringer who hasn't been, and we know from Dazar'Alor and 8.2 broadcast text that both Jaina and Azshara survive their respective encounters. I think we'll end up overthrowing her in a raid, but rather than be put in chains like Garrosh was, she takes her most stringent loyalists, escapes, and creates a new Scourge. This may finally end up alienating Chief Executive Bootlicker Nathanos, who becomes the new Forsaken racial leader (keeping their darker, edgier image intact while also keeping a notable face in charge) and Sylvanas ends up giving Bolvar enough headaches that the Lich King seeks out the Alliance and Horde's aid in taking her down.

That's my guess, at least: Sylvanas raid, she escapes, and the DK class storyline pays off with the Lich King and Four Horsemen coming to us for aid as Sylvanas finds a Macguffin that lets her steal most of the Scourge from Bolvar or something. Why? Warcraft 3: Reforged tie-in.

Dont think they would make such a blatant lie like that. Even for blizzard it's bit much saying she won't be garrosh 2.0 and then make her 2.0 straight up. Only way for her to become a raid boss or participant would be one of redeming her.

[Hellspawn]

The Calia Forsaken will have a leadership that ties in more with Anduin and Jaina than it does with others Horde-side and themes with no connection to those races either.

I'm not yet sure if they will bring up Calia. Sure its possible but... if Sylvanas & Nathanos are gone... who is left to lead the Forsaken?