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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a huge difference of using surveillance footage to protect your store and tying someone to multiple crimes they didn't commit. Can't figure out why some of you can't grasp that simple concept. I can draw you a picture in crayons if that helps.
    They only tied someone to multiple crimes they didn't commit because they didn't do their due diligence. I'm not against the lawsuit, in the slightest. To link to a single article and trying to use it as a blanket piece of information to pose a much broader question is just silly though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    So, like, this dude got a court summons in June and presumably did nothing?
    Didn't give them a ring and be like "yeah, so I have this court summons but I don't know why?".
    Maybe follow up with his local police department to try to get to the bottom of it?
    Did he just toss it out like "lolz not me".
    Being arrested 5 months later leads me to believe he didn't act on the summons, so a warrant was issued for his arrest.
    Have you ever received a summons? Depending on the type (or perhaps it the court?) they can either come in the mail or delivered via sheriff. Obviously being deliver via sheriff would be a tad telling but yea...

    If you got any piece of mail from a place you have no link to, do you not inherently believe it's bogus? If you got a piece of mail from what looked like a court in a state you have no link to, would you not imagine it was misaddressed or something? Why would that be on >ME< to tell them it's not me. Did the court and law enforcement do anything wrong? Absolutely not, but the fact remains.

    I can't fault the guy in the slightest for not acting on it.

    As for the 50k figure, nah, he just has to get any competent lawyer and dr saying he has a ton of emotional issues now, it ruined his good name, etc, etc, etc.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a huge difference of using surveillance footage to protect your store and tying someone to multiple crimes they didn't commit. Can't figure out why some of you can't grasp that simple concept. I can draw you a picture in crayons if that helps.
    Hang on. Please explain how their surveillance footage is "tying someone to multiple crimes they didn't commit"?

    The issue here is that a case of stolen identify (by the original perpetrator) is leading to the wrong person becoming a suspect in those crimes. I am going to assume that the perpetrator used a different ID for each incident, and that the facial recognition software figured out it was the same person, but assumed it was the wrong person. The software linked the crimes. But it's the stolen ID that linked it to Bah.

    Here's the funny thing. Even without facial recognition software, that stolen ID would still have linked the original crime to Bah. Ironically it's the camera footage that saved him because it provides the proof that exonerates him.

    This lawsuit makes zero sense on a number of levels. Apple didn't even use Bah's image at all. If it had, then he wouldn't have been flagged at all. Secondly, wtf is he suing for $1BN for? At best he's suffered some minor inconvenience at the hands of the police (not even Apple). It's not like the cops pitched up at his house at the behest of Apple and riddled with bullets leaving him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life (and even that wouldn't warrant a $1BN lawsuit). $1BN is the kind of money that involves a class action where there are 100s of victims, not just 1 special snowflake.

    This case sounds like a frivolous use of the legal system to try and opportunistically get money out of a big corporation.

    He might have a case against the law enforcement officials for smaller amount (like 50K) for emotional trauma, but it seems to me he's suing the wrong entity for an exhorbitant amount on the wrong grounds.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2019-04-23 at 03:51 PM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    As for the 50k figure, nah, he just has to get any competent lawyer and dr saying he has a ton of emotional issues now, it ruined his good name, etc, etc, etc.
    You know people sitting on the bench aren't complete idiots, and neither are the members of the jury (and if there's one thing they hate is "get rich quick" schemes).

    The outrageous awards are usually issued in cases where the court wants to punish malicious actions on the part of the corporation. In situations like these, where corporation has basically done nothing wrong (beyond some simple negligence), there's not a chance in hell he would get any kind of substantive monetary award.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood
    So, like, this dude got a court summons in June and presumably did nothing?
    Didn't give them a ring and be like "yeah, so I have this court summons but I don't know why?".
    Maybe follow up with his local police department to try to get to the bottom of it?
    Uhh...well...procrastination and laziness is a thing. I have some personal experience with that - I got a court summons that I ignored from a state I literally visited for less than 72 hours. A few months later I was surprised when my friend from that state told me I was on that state's wanted list...lol. Took a few calls and some hurried credit card payments to clear the issues up.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayvio View Post
    seems more like a human error than a problem with the system. if the idiot hadn't just linked a photo to the account without proof of ID then there wouldn't have been a problem
    The original perpetator had proof of ID. But it was a stolen ID. How is that the system's fault?

    Also, why exactly is it "idiotic" to link the actual photo of the person with the account that said person is taking out?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashnazg View Post
    You know people sitting on the bench aren't complete idiots, and neither are the members of the jury (and if there's one thing they hate is "get rich quick" schemes).
    While a judge should hopefully be competent, at the very least you do know a jury is made of people who can also vote right? *rimshot*

    This isn't a get rich quick scheme, and I'm not saying the guy will get anywhere near $1B, he will get substantially more than $50k though.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Try taking a photo of someone and using it without their consent for business and let me know how that turns out.
    Its done all the time. Watch any newscast when they post mugshots, or do a live story at a baseball game and everyone in the stadium behind the reporters are on camera, or watch an episode of Live PD where they follow cops live as they work. Virtually none of the faces are blurred. Hell watch home movies people take of their family at the beach and post on Youtube. None of the people in the background were asked for permission for their face to be used. If youre in public your face isnt private

  7. #67
    This is like blaming a gun store for selling bullets that kill people.

    Whoever is enforcing the law should realize the error of their ways. Technology never works 100%, it is a tool... it helps more often than not.

  8. #68
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Police use finger prints and DNA. Apple used their own software to get an innocent man accused of crimes he didn't commit.
    Accused, not even arrested or tried in court. Hell, charges were never even filed. He only got a summons which he responded to and everything was tossed

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    Bah, this is a frivolous lawsuit

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    The article is sparse, so a lot of detail is missing, but the thing that jumped out to me was:

    "He only learned about the mix-up after receiving a Boston municipal court summons in the mail in June, according to court papers.
    The NYPD arrested him on Nov. 29, but a detective working the case viewed surveillance footage from the Manhattan store and concluded that the suspect “looked nothing like” Bah, his lawsuit states."

    So, like, this dude got a court summons in June and presumably did nothing?
    Didn't give them a ring and be like "yeah, so I have this court summons but I don't know why?".
    Maybe follow up with his local police department to try to get to the bottom of it?
    Did he just toss it out like "lolz not me".
    Being arrested 5 months later leads me to believe he didn't act on the summons, so a warrant was issued for his arrest.

    Now, sure, this was a false accusation and the dude does have a gripe, but at the same time, he maybe had a few months to clear his name, help the police figure out what happened, and maybe even avoid having the (later dropped) suits filed against him?
    He could have kicked off the whole stolen identity thing a bit sooner, because who knows if the guy was actually caught but sitting on something for an extra 5 months probably didn't help much.

    Yeah, this is a technology fail, it's an Apple store fail (the employee accepted improper/fraudulent information as identification), plenty of blame to go around.
    Maybe Apple should train their employees to require a photo ID, then if their store is robbed maybe the police shouldn't take the surveillance footage at face value (lolz) and do a more thorough investigation, then maybe if the dude got a notice he should have responded to defend his name.
    Kind of a jacked up situation.

    His suit will probably settle out of court for like 50k for "time and damages" or whatever.
    Its a court summons for a different state that he probably hasn't been to.
    You can call them but I'm going to bet they won't go "oh, you say its not you, well ok, we'll drop the case because of this phone call have a nice day".
    I imagine he would still be required to show up to prove its not him. In a different state.

    It doesn't read that unlikely to me at all.
    And yes the amount asked for is obviously bullshit. He might get a 1000 bucks out of it.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #70
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    And yes the amount asked for is obviously bullshit. He might get a 1000 bucks out of it.
    You never ask for what you think is fair, in a civil suit. You demand the moon, and let the judge say "nah, but here's what's reasonable". Exorbitant amounts also tend to get press coverage (as we can see, here) which can provide pressure on the accused to settle to get it out of the press ASAP.

    Anyone who asks for a reasonable amount in a civil suit is fucking up and doesn't understand how the system works.


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Its a court summons for a different state that he probably hasn't been to.
    You can call them but I'm going to bet they won't go "oh, you say its not you, well ok, we'll drop the case because of this phone call have a nice day".
    I imagine he would still be required to show up to prove its not him. In a different state.

    It doesn't read that unlikely to me at all.
    And yes the amount asked for is obviously bullshit. He might get a 1000 bucks out of it.
    My whole thing is that it's still a court summons, and even if he blew it off, it was a thing and he is at fault for that portion (the reason for the summons created is a diff issue).
    I know people who've gotten them before as well and thought "what the shit?".
    One was a traffic cam speeding violation in Indiana or Illinois (forgot which) back when those became all the rage.
    He called, the court stated the purpose for it, and he was able to settle over the phone.
    In this case, I doubt they would let him, but still he could have inquired.
    Google the state/county/city courthouse that issued it, call them, give them the case number, and figure out scam or for realz and go from there.
    It's not ideal, sure, but at least he would have record of attempting to resolve instead of ignoring/evading and needing a warrant issued.
    The idea is that everyone messed up here in some regard.
    Dude has a gripe, for sure, and I expect a fairly quick settlement to quiet this down.

  12. #72
    Only a billion? Thank god its just an unrealistic amount to garner attention.

    I don't particularly have any strong feelings towards using facial recognition software for this sort of things, provided it doesn't screw up and lead to someone else besides the culprit being arrested.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Its done all the time. Watch any newscast when they post mugshots, or do a live story at a baseball game and everyone in the stadium behind the reporters are on camera, or watch an episode of Live PD where they follow cops live as they work. Virtually none of the faces are blurred. Hell watch home movies people take of their family at the beach and post on Youtube. None of the people in the background were asked for permission for their face to be used. If youre in public your face isnt private
    But at least it's the police verifying the info

  14. #74
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Sounds like something he should take up with law enforcement. Apple can give information to officers, but it's up to the detectives to actually tie the evidence to the charges. This is legally no different from a company giving a possible name and picture to the police and the police proceeding without investigating further.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooti View Post
    This 100%. The perpetrator is not at fault, the authorities are not to blame, lets blame the VICTIM of the crime because they are the wealthiest.
    Apple is not the victim of false arrest and whatever impact that causes. There are two separate incidents.

    Apple is the victim of theft. Bah is a victim of wrongful arrest due to Apple wrongfully identifying him as the thief.

    He'd just have to actually be able to demonstrate what damage the wrongful identification/arrest caused. If it inconvenienced him for an afternoon, that's going to be seen as pretty negligible impact on his life.

    1 billion is clearly excessive simply because Apple has deep pockets, so someone is aiming high and hoping they'll offer a nice settlement.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You never ask for what you think is fair, in a civil suit. You demand the moon, and let the judge say "nah, but here's what's reasonable". Exorbitant amounts also tend to get press coverage (as we can see, here) which can provide pressure on the accused to settle to get it out of the press ASAP.

    Anyone who asks for a reasonable amount in a civil suit is fucking up and doesn't understand how the system works.
    There's a bit of a difference between going over on your initial bid, and going for 1 billion dollars. Because personally, my reaction to him asking for 1 billion for a court summons is not "oh you poor thing lets make it all better." It's more along the lines of "fuck you and the horse you rode in on." I strongly doubt I'm the only one with such a sentiment. If anything, this encourages Apple to dig in more, because they do not want to give a public impression that if you push aggressively to start it will cause you to win automatically.

  17. #77
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    So what is this person exactly thinking? Why sue them for 1 billion dollars? Like does he get all that money if he wins? Sounds a bit retarded if so.
    That is like someone chopped a finger off someone and they use that finger to get in his private stuff.

    Nobody can prevent that and sueing the company who made the technology is just plane stupid.

    So what am i missing here? Is this another "Americans trying to get rich easily by sueing everyone" topic? Or is there actual logic in here?
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Try taking a photo of someone and using it without their consent for business and let me know how that turns out.

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    Police use finger prints and DNA. Apple used their own software to get an innocent man accused of crimes he didn't commit.
    you mean they used their security tools to give evidence of a crime to the cops who did their job and all but one state has dropped chargers..... which is the right thing to do, and no difference if i went to the cops with my homes video cams and said hey this here are pics of the guy that broke in, but turns out they had a good fake mask or something.

    This is a frivolous lawsuit against a mega-corp in hopes they just settling for a radically smaller amount and rock solid NDA.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    They only tied someone to multiple crimes they didn't commit because they didn't do their due diligence. I'm not against the lawsuit, in the slightest. To link to a single article and trying to use it as a blanket piece of information to pose a much broader question is just silly though.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Have you ever received a summons? Depending on the type (or perhaps it the court?) they can either come in the mail or delivered via sheriff. Obviously being deliver via sheriff would be a tad telling but yea...

    If you got any piece of mail from a place you have no link to, do you not inherently believe it's bogus? If you got a piece of mail from what looked like a court in a state you have no link to, would you not imagine it was misaddressed or something? Why would that be on >ME< to tell them it's not me. Did the court and law enforcement do anything wrong? Absolutely not, but the fact remains.

    I can't fault the guy in the slightest for not acting on it.

    As for the 50k figure, nah, he just has to get any competent lawyer and dr saying he has a ton of emotional issues now, it ruined his good name, etc, etc, etc.
    I have received incorrect summons before. The response is pretty simple: go to the sheriff's office to ask wtf is going on is this real or is it a scam. It was, in fact, a scam, but quite simply if you're being sued it is something that you have to take seriously enough to at least validate if it is something actually happening. If it's a scam and someone had you wasting your time running around, that's unfortunate but not nearly as unfortunate as being arrested for failure to respond.

    Also, getting millions for emotional distress is a trope that's been invalid since the 90s.

  20. #80
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    Oh look, yet another ridiculous-amount-lawsuit from the US.
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    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

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