Why would 8.2 be any different?

[Pancreatin]

I don't play WoW anymore but I know I will probably come back at some point, i'm just waiting for the ''right patch''
But here's the thing, you don't see me making thread bashing WoW, trolling current subscribers and what not
And I totally agree with you , I don't understand why some people feel the need to ''convince others to unsubscribe'' or bashing Blizzard etc etc....
I just don't get the Internet sometime ahah

Ofcourse people that played this game religiously would bash when it becomes so bad that even they cant white knight it. Considering this expansion is a dumpster fire it should be bashed as much as possible until blizzard make it better or it dies out.

[cface]

This is the one single thing I give 8.2: The new active Azerite traits from essences help a bit in this regard.

Too little too late and too much fukk the customer from blizzard. Me and my friends have actually played non-stop since this expansions launch, but we simply can't be motivated anymore. What happens is that a new game takes over and our trust in blizzard have plummeted.

Hopefully 9.0 will be amazing, like MoP/wotlk/legion amazing.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

If you were satisfied with 8.0 and happy with 8.1 then you don't have very high standards and a box filled with poo could most likely entertain you for a good few hours.

If 8.0 and 8.1 had the class design of Cata/MoP/WoD/Legion it would have been one of the better expansions so far. WotLK and MoP (the two expansions usually winning "fav xp polls"), had significantly weaker content at the same time in their lifespans. T7 with faceroll Naxx/OS/EoE was one of the most boring raid Tiers of all time, and T14 MSV/HoF/ToES had a few good bosses, but was overall a pretty forgetable tier.

[GreenJesus]

If 8.0 and 8.1 had the class design of Cata/MoP/WoD/Legion it would have been one of the better expansions so far. WotLK and MoP (the two expansions usually winning "fav xp polls"), had significantly weaker content at the same time in their lifespans. T7 with faceroll Naxx/OS/EoE was one of the most boring raid Tiers of all time, and T14 MSV/HoF/ToES had a few good bosses, but was overall a pretty forgetable tier.

For some reason they decided "let's do a whole bunch of controversial decisions and remove all this stuff from the game with the launch of a patch." I don't know what they were thinking. It's like they wanted to piss people off. And then they told us "well we won't change anything back to the way it was but tell us how you feel". And then white knights say "why are people criticizing the game? Bunch of incels"

[Jester Joe]

WoW is basically the pop radio music of gaming. You're free to enjoy it but people with an education recognize the fact that it's bad.
You can also see that it's bad and shamelessly enjoy it at the same time. What you can't do is claim that it's good, that's intellectually desingenuous.

"bUt EvErYbOdY hAvE dIfFeReNt TaStEs"
No, you have good taste and see that WoW is bad or you have terrible taste and think WoW is good.
"Taste" and "having the right to enjoy terrible things" are not mutually exclusive.

I enjoy a lot of bad things, the enjoyment I get from them does not provide evidence of quality and it doesn't blind me to the fact that they are bad.

Except it's a video game.

Opinions are opinions. Everyone has different opinions.
You're being arrogant by saying "Either you have my opinion or you're wrong, and also not educated".
When you have to stoop that low to try to prove your point, I think that speaks for itself.

[Freshouttajail]

Except it's a video game.

Opinions are opinions. Everyone has different opinions.
You're being arrogant by saying "Either you have my opinion or you're wrong, and also not educated".
When you have to stoop that low to try to prove your point, I think that speaks for itself.

I never said people should have my opinion. I did not voice my opinion. I detach myself from biased perspective and see the game for what it is. A bad game. I played a lot of BfA and enjoyed it, doesn't mean it's good.
Opinions and facts don't have to be one and the same, I enjoyed BfA, it's still shit, I listen to a lot of bad music, I enjoy it, doesn't make it good just because I enjoy it.

My opinion doesn't change the state of the game. Opinions are only perspective and it's possible to detach yourself from that bias to see things for what they truly are. It does take some practice but it's not impossible.

[Jester Joe]

I never said people should have my opinion. I did not voice my opinion. I detach myself from biased perspective and see the game for what it is. A bad game. I played a lot of BfA and enjoyed it, doesn't mean it's good.
Opinions and facts don't have to be one and the same, I enjoyed BfA, it's still shit, I listen to a lot of bad music, I enjoy it, doesn't make it good just because I enjoy it.

My opinion doesn't change the state of the game. Opinions are only perspective and it's possible to detach yourself from that bias to see things for what they truly are. It does take some practice but it's not impossible.

And I could easily say the same exact thing you just said, but replace all of the "bad" with "average".

I'd still be objectively right.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sounds like every patch ever to me. It’s just more wow no different then 7.2 or 6.2 or 5.2 ect ect.

[Garymorilix]

WoW is basically the pop radio music of gaming. You're free to enjoy it but people with an education recognize the fact that it's bad.
You can also see that it's bad and shamelessly enjoy it at the same time. What you can't do is claim that it's good, that's intellectually desingenuous.

"bUt EvErYbOdY hAvE dIfFeReNt TaStEs"
No, you have good taste and see that WoW is bad or you have terrible taste and think WoW is good.
"Taste" and "having the right to enjoy terrible things" are not mutually exclusive.

I enjoy a lot of bad things, the enjoyment I get from them does not provide evidence of quality and it doesn't blind me to the fact that they are bad.

Goddamit, quit feeding drugs to the poor animal. The horse is way too high.

I'm curious, what's your definiton of good? With one or two examples that is.

[Freshouttajail]

And I could easily say the same exact thing you just said, but replace all of the "bad" with "average".

I'd still be objectively right.

How so? A bad apple is not as good as an average apple. How does changing the right word for an incorrect word make it objectively right?

[SilverFaerie]

How so? A bad apple is not as good as an average apple. How does changing the right word for an incorrect word make it objectively right?

idk man Bad Apple is my favorite Touhou soundtrack.

[Hilaw]

8.2 prolly won't be any different, maybe even worse but new raid is always fun. So I am looking forward to Azshara's Eternal Palace.

[Freshouttajail]

Goddamit, quit feeding drugs to the poor animal. The horse is way too high.

I'm curious, what's your definiton of good? With one or two examples that is.

Different criterias for each product but for WoW you need to have the core things to be well developped. Class design, itemization, loot progression, meaningful reward, feeling of accomplishment, world exploration.
Right now most of those are in a very poor shape. Classes have lost a lot of important things they used to have so just by comparison you can see there's a step down. Itemization is way too simple, braindead simple, at least the funky stuff of crucible bring something fresh, hopefully this is a new standard for the futur, flat stats bring nothing to the game.
Upgrades are mostly meaningless, it takes little time to get anything and once you get it you never know how fast you're gonna replace it, we don't get attached to any item, we're never really happy about an item because of how fast we get rid of it. A good example of both itemization and meaningful loot would be Diablo 2, sometimes you would use items you get in normal all the way to hell because they bring something special and when you replace them it's with something beyond amazing so that also feels special.
Feeling of accomplishment is pretty much absent, sure you can get that from reaching your own personnal goal but that's self made, it's not something from the game. We used to feel special for solo'ing a group quest, now we can do 3 "group quests" at the same time, alone. The game gives access to easymode versions of everything to all the people who wouldn't even be good enough to play the game back then, so it makes everything less impressive by default. Legendary items used to be a team effort to make one for the guild, then they became free for everyone through a quest and then they dropped every 2 weeks and were just collectible. It's called legendary, not walmart 2 for 1.

World exploration is pretty meaningless now, most spots to explore where quests guide you, there should be spots that are only accessible if you go out of your way to find them and there should be fun rewards there. I actually saw one spot where this exist in BfA (I won't spoil it for people who haven't found it), it was fun, I don't know why there's not more, there used to be more of that usually with a chest at the end or stuff like that, MoP had a bunch with an achievement I believe, even WoD had that with the treasures all over the place. (alos lol at BfA treasures, wtf happened there, guys?)

What did I say that isn't true to BfA? And provide evidence that it's not true.

[Garymorilix]

Different criterias for each product but for WoW you need to have the core things to be well developped. Class design, itemization, loot progression, meaningful reward, feeling of accomplishment, world exploration.
Right now most of those are in a very poor shape. Classes have lost a lot of important things they used to have so just by comparison you can see there's a step down. Itemization is way too simple, braindead simple, at least the funky stuff of crucible bring something fresh, hopefully this is a new standard for the futur, flat stats bring nothing to the game.
Upgrades are mostly meaningless, it takes little time to get anything and once you get it you never know how fast you're gonna replace it, we don't get attached to any item, we're never really happy about an item because of how fast we get rid of it. A good example of both itemization and meaningful loot would be Diablo 2, sometimes you would use items you get in normal all the way to hell because they bring something special and when you replace them it's with something beyond amazing so that also feels special.
Feeling of accomplishment is pretty much absent, sure you can get that from reaching your own personnal goal but that's self made, it's not something from the game. We used to feel special for solo'ing a group quest, now we can do 3 "group quests" at the same time, alone. The game gives access to easymode versions of everything to all the people who wouldn't even be good enough to play the game back then, so it makes everything less impressive by default. Legendary items used to be a team effort to make one for the guild, then they became free for everyone through a quest and then they dropped every 2 weeks and were just collectible. It's called legendary, not walmart 2 for 1.

World exploration is pretty meaningless now, most spots to explore where quests guide you, there should be spots that are only accessible if you go out of your way to find them and there should be fun rewards there. I actually saw one spot where this exist in BfA (I won't spoil it for people who haven't found it), it was fun, I don't know why there's not more, there used to be more of that usually with a chest at the end or stuff like that, MoP had a bunch with an achievement I believe, even WoD had that with the treasures all over the place. (alos lol at BfA treasures, wtf happened there, guys?)

What did I say that isn't true to BfA? And provide evidence that it's not true.

Everything that you just said is subjective. It's nice that you think you're some kind of God, but newsflash, you ain't.

"Class design, itemization, loot progression, meaningful reward, feeling of accomplishment, world exploration."

You said they are in very poor shape. Provide tangible evidence that they are, and that these are not just your opinions. Then you can ask me to provide evidence that it's not true.

This whole rant is about why you don't like the current systems. This is as far from objective as it can get.

[Freshouttajail]

Everything that you just said is subjective. It's nice that you think you're some kind of God, but newsflash, you ain't.

"Class design, itemization, loot progression, meaningful reward, feeling of accomplishment, world exploration."

You said they are in very poor shape. Provide tangible evidence that they are, and that these are not just your opinions. Then you can ask me to provide evidence that it's not true.

This whole rant is about why you don't like the current systems. This is as far from objective as it can get.

So if there was a scientific study that came out, explaining why BfA is bad and it provided the exact things I just said, would you then consider it a fact that BfA sucks? Would you call the scientific study an opinion just to fit your narrative or would you consider what I said to be a fact now that an official scientific study has been made on the subject?
How would what I said go from being an opinion to being a fact without changing a single word just because a study that provides no additional information was done?

"It's scientific so it must be true"?

What would you need to be convinced that BfA is factually bad?

[Trend]

WoW is basically the pop radio music of gaming. You're free to enjoy it but people with an education recognize the fact that it's bad.
You can also see that it's bad and shamelessly enjoy it at the same time. What you can't do is claim that it's good, that's intellectually desingenuous.

"bUt EvErYbOdY hAvE dIfFeReNt TaStEs"
No, you have good taste and see that WoW is bad or you have terrible taste and think WoW is good.
"Taste" and "having the right to enjoy terrible things" are not mutually exclusive.

I enjoy a lot of bad things, the enjoyment I get from them does not provide evidence of quality and it doesn't blind me to the fact that they are bad.

You sound like a terribly pretentious person and your argument does not even hold up. Music, like food and clothing and many other things, is widely regarded as having higher and lower forms. Personal taste can contradict those forms while a person retains consciousness of that deviation. It would be a stretch to make that application to video games (as you have done), which are inherently just for entertainment value. If someone tried to convince me they were playing a high minded fancy video game I would think they were an idiot, regardless of what they were playing. In the video game world "good" and "bad" have no meaning beyond providing enjoyment. Your dichotomy is false.

[Freshouttajail]

You sound like a terribly pretentious person and your argument does not even hold up. Music, like food and clothing and many other things, is widely regarded as having higher and lower forms. Personal taste can contradict those forms while a person retains consciousness of that deviation. It would be a stretch to make that application to video games (as you have done), which are inherently just for entertainment value. If someone tried to convince me they were playing a high minded fancy video game I would think they were an idiot, regardless of what they were playing. In the video game world "good" and "bad" have no meaning beyond providing enjoyment. Your dichotomy is false.

You make the claim that what I said was wrong, yet provide no evidence to make your claim an objective truth. So you are sharing your opinion about what I said but you want us to think this opinion is a fact but refuse to accept that what I said could be a fact.

The only fact here is that you are a hypocrite.
You did the exact same thing you accuse me of doing. You're gonna need to be a lot more careful in your next post.

Can you prove that subjectivity is truth, that it's not just a twisted perspective or denial of objectivity?

[Garymorilix]

So if there was a scientific study that came out, explaining why BfA is bad and it provided the exact things I just said, would you then consider it a fact that BfA sucks? Would you call the scientific study an opinion just to fit your narrative or would you consider what I said to be a fact now that an official scientific study has been made on the subject?
How would what I said go from being an opinion to being a fact without changing a single word just because a study that provides no additional information was done?

"It's scientific so it must be true"?

What would you need to be convinced that BfA is factually bad?

Some random guy on MMO-c saying bs while claiming that everything he says is the correct way things are, and if you don't agree then you either have shitty taste or are just plain retarded.

I don't need scientific studies. Your backwards logic dictates that whatever you say is factually right, while you can't prove anything you say factually.
It's like religion. Why should I try to disprove the existence of God when it wasn't proven in the first place? You are not some kind of elevated being so stop trying to pass your opinions are undeniable facts. Case point.

[Jester Joe]

How so? A bad apple is not as good as an average apple. How does changing the right word for an incorrect word make it objectively right?

I'll ask you to find a single person who enjoys a bad apple.

Even if you do, the amount would be far less than the amount of people who like BfA or at least still enjoy it to a degree.

I'm not telling you it's the best thing ever. I think myself it's mediocre. But it's far from bad.

[Freshouttajail]

Some random guy on MMO-c saying bs while claiming that everything he says is the correct way things are, and if you don't agree then you either have shitty taste or are just plain retarded.

I don't need scientific studies. Your backwards logic dictates that whatever you say is factually right, while you can't prove anything you say factually.
It's like religion. Why should I try to disprove the existence of God when it wasn't proven in the first place? You are not some kind of elevated being so stop trying to pass your opinions are undeniable facts. Case point.

I explained my points, neutrally, I described what is wrong in the game. What do you need to see to be convinced that the class design in the game is factually bad? What kind of proof do you want to see to be satisfied and accept this as a fact instead of an opinion?

- - - Updated - - -

I'll ask you to find a single person who enjoys a bad apple.

Even if you do, the amount would be far less than the amount of people who like BfA or at least still enjoy it to a degree.

I'm not telling you it's the best thing ever. I think myself it's mediocre. But it's far from bad.

"The mass" is not "the judge". It's not impossible to have 99 person wrong about something and 1 person right about it. Majority doesn't create truth.