Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Gallahadd]

I think the biggest problem with the ST is lack of any real oversight.

We have force Awakens, which was a hyper traditional, borderline copycat movie. The fans weren’t pleased. It was TOO similar, they said, it was basically a new hope, with a face lift.

So, Disney overcorrected. They hired a new writer/director and told him to go hogwild. Try something new. Deliver a Star Wars Movie unlike any we’d ever seen. Which, sadly, is no more what the fans wanted than the first, hyper traditional film was. This time, fans complained that the film was TOO different, it didn’t feel like Star Wars anymore, or so they said.

Sadly... Disney have once again, Overcorrected. I’m going to gaze into my crystal ball and say: seeing as they’ve hired the same guy that gave us the hyper traditional first film, Rise of Skywalker will be a return to the original problem, and deliver a confusing, disjointed, hyper traditional finale, that desperately tries to salvage as many of the remaining threads from JJ’s opener, while ignoring the wild changes Rian put in place in TLJ. Then, to try and butter up the fans, throw in some familiar faces, just to remind us what franchise this is.

What they needed to do, was hire ONE director, with ONE vision, to make the new trilogy.

When JJ delivered his slightly too traditional opener, they should have said “Suck it up, buttercups, we know what we’re doing.” Then released a second film that actually BUILT on what had transpired in the first film, developed the plot lines (Rey’s parents, Snoke, Kylo, Luke) and set up for the grand finale, that the Skywalker saga deserves.

Ideally, the one I theorised before, that Rise of Skywalker will be: Rey and Kylo working together to create a “grey” order of Force users, who seek TRUE balance in the force. An order called “The Skywalkers”. In the course of doing this, they’d defeat Snoke and destroy the first order, and finally, truly, bring balance and peace to the Galaxy.

This would not only tie together this trilogy, but bring a satisfying end to ALL THREE trilogies, as the prophecy is at last fulfilled, and the Skywalkers bring balance to the universe.

Then, with the traditionalist Skywalker Saga concluded, off to one side, where people are less focused, have Rian Johnson make his forward thinking, totally out there trilogy, set in a time/place that is totally removed from the “core” plot, and thus is free to be as weird as he’d like.

That’s what I’d do, anyway. If I was in charge.

[eschatological]

I don't think Kylo can be redeemed narratively, even based on just the first movie. But yes, the trilogy could have used a cohesive vision. I can't believe they came out and admitted they didn't have one coming out. Moviemaking in a franchise shouldn't be a call-and-response.

[Belize]

The three trilogies are about the Skywalker family.

Which is the biggest downfall of Star Wars.

Red Letter Media was proven 100% right about how limited of a universe SW is when the name for the movie came out. Everything is centered around the Skywalkers, or the original cast.

[PACOX]

The Lucas story group has expressed several times, especially when TLJ theories were hot, that they don't like the idea of 'grey' Jedi and that it's not a thing. Maybe they've changed that stance in two years but they were pretty firm back then. Lucas also rejected the concept.

I believe the confusion is with one's alignment (on say a D&D chart) with the light and dark side of the Force. The dark side is violent and selfish, the light is calm and selfless. You can't serve two sides at the same time. Giving into the dark side always has a cost. Being neutral when it comes to the factions is not being grey. Ashoka is not a Jedi, but still a light side force user. The closest thing to 'grey Jedi' in canon has been Quinlan Vos, hell fell just like the 'rules' of the Force dictate. Flirt with the dark side and you will be corrupted.

The whole 'grey' thing only really came about because the old EU was like the wild west with now real checks and balances. Every writer wanted their Darth Vader, their Luke, their Sidious. Every new iteration of the EU featured a bigger/badder version of whatever was before it. Everyone had to had to add their own spin until it became a mess riddled with power creep and fan fiction.

If whole 'grey' thing is introduced its not going to be people tapping into the light and dark at will like they are Dr Jekyll.

If Rey establishes a new order, and it looks that way, it would one that's neutral of the galaxies politics. Part of the Jedi's downfall is that they acted as a peacekeeping arm of the Republic but not the residents of the galaxy in general. To the Separatist the Jedi were oppressors. The Jedi didn't a shit about people who grew up like Anakin because Tatooine was out of the eye of the Republic. The Jedi had become a monastic military of the Republic instead of true peace keepers. A new order would be for all people, not just those part of the core worlds and valuable to the Republic.

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Which is the biggest downfall of Star Wars.

Red Letter Media was proven 100% right about how limited of a universe SW is when the name for the movie came out. Everything is centered around the Skywalkers, or the original cast.

And that's why Disney has and is working on material that outside of the Skywalker story.

[Kokolums]

When I think "grey jedi" I'm thinking someone like Papa Midnite from the Constantine movie (2005). Someone who wants to create a neutral ground for both Jedi and Sith. Why do it? To achieve peace? For money? For power? For salvation? The way I see it, the "grey jedi" has some greater purpose beyond Jedi vs Sith that forces them to wish to being them together.

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And that's why Disney has and is working on material that outside of the Skywalker story.

I just hope it doesn't devolve into gang wars / mob bosses / crime lords. I hate that edgelord crap. Oooh, everyone has dark in them. It always winds up at a point where I can't root for everyone and just want a Death Star to drop in from hyperspace and blow everyone away.

[Tabrotar]

I think the biggest problem with the ST is lack of any real oversight.

We have force Awakens, which was a hyper traditional, borderline copycat movie. The fans weren’t pleased. It was TOO similar, they said, it was basically a new hope, with a face lift.

So, Disney overcorrected. They hired a new writer/director and told him to go hogwild. Try something new. Deliver a Star Wars Movie unlike any we’d ever seen. Which, sadly, is no more what the fans wanted than the first, hyper traditional film was. This time, fans complained that the film was TOO different, it didn’t feel like Star Wars anymore, or so they said.

Sadly... Disney have once again, Overcorrected. I’m going to gaze into my crystal ball and say: seeing as they’ve hired the same guy that gave us the hyper traditional first film, Rise of Skywalker will be a return to the original problem, and deliver a confusing, disjointed, hyper traditional finale, that desperately tries to salvage as many of the remaining threads from JJ’s opener, while ignoring the wild changes Rian put in place in TLJ. Then, to try and butter up the fans, throw in some familiar faces, just to remind us what franchise this is.

What they needed to do, was hire ONE director, with ONE vision, to make the new trilogy.

When JJ delivered his slightly too traditional opener, they should have said “Suck it up, buttercups, we know what we’re doing.” Then released a second film that actually BUILT on what had transpired in the first film, developed the plot lines (Rey’s parents, Snoke, Kylo, Luke) and set up for the grand finale, that the Skywalker saga deserves.

Ideally, the one I theorised before, that Rise of Skywalker will be: Rey and Kylo working together to create a “grey” order of Force users, who seek TRUE balance in the force. An order called “The Skywalkers”. In the course of doing this, they’d defeat Snoke and destroy the first order, and finally, truly, bring balance and peace to the Galaxy.

This would not only tie together this trilogy, but bring a satisfying end to ALL THREE trilogies, as the prophecy is at last fulfilled, and the Skywalkers bring balance to the universe.

Then, with the traditionalist Skywalker Saga concluded, off to one side, where people are less focused, have Rian Johnson make his forward thinking, totally out there trilogy, set in a time/place that is totally removed from the “core” plot, and thus is free to be as weird as he’d like.

That’s what I’d do, anyway. If I was in charge.

So disney is like blizzard then, doing exactly the wrong thing and then wondering why nobody likes it.

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When I think "grey jedi" I'm thinking someone like Papa Midnite from the Constantine movie (2005). Someone who wants to create a neutral ground for both Jedi and Sith. Why do it? To achieve peace? For money? For power? For salvation? The way I see it, the "grey jedi" has some greater purpose beyond Jedi vs Sith that forces them to wish to being them together.

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I just hope it doesn't devolve into gang wars / mob bosses / crime lords. I hate that edgelord crap. Oooh, everyone has dark in them. It always winds up at a point where I can't root for everyone and just want a Death Star to drop in from hyperspace and blow everyone away.

We had grey jedi back in the kotor games and there it was clearly explained, but seemingly you tend to ignore that.

[Puupi]

We had grey jedi back in the kotor games and there it was clearly explained, but seemingly you tend to ignore that.

Is it canon?

[Tabrotar]

Is it canon?

Didn´t they say all before BoY is canon? Or was that retconned?

[Puupi]

Didn´t they say all before BoY is canon? Or was that retconned?

BoY? What is that?

And I don't think they have explicitly said anything else being canon except for the 9 original films and those cartoon things Disney has made.

[Tabrotar]

BoY? What is that?

And I don't think they have explicitly said anything else being canon except for the 9 original films and those cartoon things Disney has made.

Battle of Yavin, i know the normal timeline we had before the retcon (maybe even afte rnot shure) was so that the battle of yavon was the point from which they counted as BBoY was before and ABoY was after it.

And i remember them saying that SW:ToR is canon bcs they only cared about the new stuff and all things before are ok, but i can be wrong.

[Skulltaker]

BoY? What is that?

And I don't think they have explicitly said anything else being canon except for the 9 original films and those cartoon things Disney has made.

BoY refers to as the Battle of Yavin, it's kind of Day 1 for the Star Wars timeline and is used as a refference point in time, since Star Wars has no official calender.

All media released under Disney is canon, including books and comics, plus the original movies and the Clone Wars series. A few things from video games and older books have been made canon since, like Thrawn.

[Puupi]

Battle of Yavin, i know the normal timeline we had before the retcon (maybe even afte rnot shure) was so that the battle of yavon was the point from which they counted as BBoY was before and ABoY was after it.

And i remember them saying that SW:ToR is canon bcs they only cared about the new stuff and all things before are ok, but i can be wrong.

I think you are wrong. Afaik SWTOR is definitely not canon - unfortunately.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

the battlefront 2 campaign is canon, too.

[Puupi]

On April 25, 2014, after a year of ownership by the Walt Disney Company, a StarWars.com press release confirmed that the films of the sequel trilogy would not adhere to the post–Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe,^[11] with further comments from LucasBooks Senior Editor Jennifer Heddle confirming that the EU as a whole is no longer considered canon. The EU has been re-termed "Legends," with related publications remaining in print under that banner.
Since then, the only previously published material still considered canon are the six original trilogy/prequel trilogy films, the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film, and Part I of the short story Blade Squadron. Most material published after April 25—such as the Star Wars Rebels TV series along with all Marvel Star Wars comic books and novels beginning with A New Dawn—is also considered part of the new canon, on account of the creation of the Lucasfilm Story Group, which currently oversees continuity as a whole. Characters under the Legends banner are still available for use as needed, even if events concerning them are no longer canon.
On September 29, 2018, Lucasfilm Story Group's Matt Martin revealed on his Twitter account that the canon tier system originally established by Leland Chee in the early 2000s is no longer used following the canon reboot.<sup>[12]

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon</sup>

[Tabrotar]

I think you are wrong. Afaik SWTOR is definitely not canon - unfortunately.

Hm as i said i´m not shure but i thought i read that somewhere that they still consider things in the old republic are of time canon bcs it´s to far away or something like that.

[PACOX]

BoY? What is that?

And I don't think they have explicitly said anything else being canon except for the 9 original films and those cartoon things Disney has made.

The movies, Clone Wars, Rebels, and almost all the books/comics that came after 2014 are canon. There's a handful of stuff in 2014 that came out that's not canon. KOTOR and SWTOR are not canon but elements from them are slowly brought into canon.

didn't see your other post.

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Battle of Yavin, i know the normal timeline we had before the retcon (maybe even afte rnot shure) was so that the battle of yavon was the point from which they counted as BBoY was before and ABoY was after it.

And i remember them saying that SW:ToR is canon bcs they only cared about the new stuff and all things before are ok, but i can be wrong.

I don't remember the interview but SWTOR is treated something like a parallel universe.

[Tabrotar]

The movies, Clone Wars, Rebels, and almost all the books/comics that came after 2014 are canon. There's a handful of stuff in 2014 that came out that's not canon. KOTOR and SWTOR are not canon but elements from them are slowly brought into canon.

didn't see your other post.

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I don't remember the interview but SWTOR is treated something like a parallel universe.

Ah ok so it was retconned bcs i remember that they said it was canon at that time, but maybe i just want to remember it that way.

[Gallahadd]

So disney is like blizzard then, doing exactly the wrong thing and then wondering why nobody likes it.

Pretty much, yeah. They tried to give the fans what they wanted... instead of delivering a coherent product and winning the fans over.

[Kontinuum]

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/st...35018282627073

[La]

Hm as i said i´m not shure but i thought i read that somewhere that they still consider things in the old republic are of time canon bcs it´s to far away or something like that.

There is at least one planet from ToR universe, as well as one of the characters that was put into Clone Wars from ToR, they considered putting Revan in there as well. I believe the rule of 2 you can trace to ToR as well. Some things from it are certainly recognized, but as a whole it's definitely, and unfortunately, not currently canon.