Where is the positivity about the game?

[letssee]

Almost as pathetic as not playing or liking a game but still commenting on forums dedicated to that thing you don't like.

Lol u cant be serious. I like wow, hate bfa, is that so hard

[Geeky]

WoW is a long-running game and over time they wanted to try to change the formula by taking risks in their game development. Some worked out well and some didn't. The player base is so diverse now compared to 15 years ago that I'm sure it can be tough to meet the needs of all those groups. Personally, I know I get a lot of enjoyment out of the game for the types of things I do in it (like collecting, farming).

FF14 is another game I like but for completely different reasons. Professions, story-telling, etc are why I like that game because to me they are game aspects I don't see in WoW. Flip side of that is that FF lacks things that I believe WoW does better (raids, for example).

We as a group can argue back and forth until we are blue in the face about the strengths and weaknesses of MMOs, but I believe it all boils down to what we personally enjoy in the games we want to play.

[Softbottom]

There are 2 indicators of how unpopular WoW is.
1.Twitch numbers have droped significantly.Most of the time they are under 20k
2.www.wowrealmpopulation.com it is no where near at what Servers were before WoD

I think #1 is a really bad way to gauge popularity.. 20k is a very small amount of people even if WoW was down to 1 million players. On a side note; there are A LOT of people who play WoW who have never watched a twitch stream and never will but still play and are subbed regularely.

[Accendor]

I think #1 is a really bad way to gauge popularity.. 20k is a very small amount of people even if WoW was down to 1 million players. On a side note; there are A LOT of people who play WoW who have never watched a twitch stream and never will but still play and are subbed regularely.

That argument is true for every game, so it evens out.

[britnee]

I like Music, as always awesome, some of the best in fact.

[CreatureLives]

At Blizzcon.

[arkanon]

Your guessing now lol man you are funny thats not what im seeing lately im seeing alot of my realms with ques now just to log into WoW BFA lately.

Just absolute garbage. There are no realms that are so full they require ppl queuing. Not even close. If any realm ever has a queue its because of a technical issue that Blizzard are working through, not because there are too many players. How can you be this delusional?

On topic - you will find two camps - those who think the negativity is just the usual level of crying that happens "every expansion" and use that to justify it, and secondly those who accept there is a higher level of negativity than usual, but go about trying to discredit the negativity (usually by ignoring 95% of a post and honing in on the 5% they feel they can dismantle)

There are some fantastic things in BfA, but sadly, very few of them relate to gameplay / game systems - instead mostly audio / visual. The new armor sets are an absolute disgrace though, sending even more hatred Blizzards way - and quite rightly too, they are an absolute disaster. It doesnt matter how big and impressive they make the racetrack if we are all driving around it in mums honda civic with a flat tyre.

[Eleccybubb]

Just absolute garbage. There are no realms that are so full they require ppl queuing. Not even close. If any realm ever has a queue its because of a technical issue that Blizzard are working through, not because there are too many players. How can you be this delusional?

On topic - you will find two camps - those who think the negativity is just the usual level of crying that happens "every expansion" and use that to justify it, and secondly those who accept there is a higher level of negativity than usual, but go about trying to discredit the negativity (usually by ignoring 95% of a post and honing in on the 5% they feel they can dismantle)

There are some fantastic things in BfA, but sadly, very few of them relate to gameplay / game systems - instead mostly audio / visual. The new armor sets are an absolute disgrace though, sending even more hatred Blizzards way - and quite rightly too, they are an absolute disaster. It doesnt matter how big and impressive they make the racetrack if we are all driving around it in mums honda civic with a flat tyre.

Few EU servers say "full" and my friends never have queues even at peak. So it's definitely misleading a bit on realm populations.

[arkanon]

I think #1 is a really bad way to gauge popularity.. 20k is a very small amount of people even if WoW was down to 1 million players. On a side note; there are A LOT of people who play WoW who have never watched a twitch stream and never will but still play and are subbed regularly.

This is true. However, if that number has dropped dramatically, which it has, and there is no logical reason for the percentage of players using twitch to have changed, which there isnt, then it is actually a pretty good measure of whats going on, especially when it coincides with the launch of BfA.

- - - Updated - - -

Few EU servers say "full" and my friends never have queues even at peak. So it's definitely misleading a bit on realm populations.

They say "full" to discourage new players joining them. Blizzard controls what level defines "full" though as well, and can adjust the numbers on the fly, and they have done this at various times - hugely limited the server capacity to trigger the queue extremely low to allow them to work on things.

[SirCowdog]

This is true. However, if that number has dropped dramatically, which it has, and there is no logical reason for the percentage of players using twitch to have changed, which there isnt, then it is actually a pretty good measure of whats going on, especially when it coincides with the launch of BfA.

Plus, if you add that info with things like RealmPop websites and other metrics, you can start to see a pretty clear image of how things are going. It's like measuring a black hole. You can't actually see it, but you CAN measure the effects it has on things around it and form a good idea.


I think what people tend to forget is why it matters, though. If you're having fun and you want to stay in the "Ignorance is Bliss" bubble, then that's your decision. But eventually that bubble will pop. The reason why people keep harping on things like subscriptions and other ways of measuring the game's health is because there's a real concern about the direction the game is going. People can keep telling themselves that none of it matters as long as they're having fun....until it DOES matter.

That's the trap of never looking past your own tiny pool of experience. You really should carefully consider the opinions of other points of view.

NOTE: That's "You" in the general sense in this post. Not you specifically, @arkanon.

[arkanon]

Plus, if you add that info with things like RealmPop websites and other metrics, you can start to see a pretty clear image of how things are going. It's like measuring a black hole. You can't actually see it, but you CAN measure the effects it has on things around it and form a good idea.


I think what people tend to forget is why it matters, though. If you're having fun and you want to stay in the "Ignorance is Bliss" bubble, then that's your decision. But eventually that bubble will pop. The reason why people keep harping on things like subscriptions and other ways of measuring the game's health is because there's a real concern about the direction the game is going. People can keep telling themselves that none of it matters as long as they're having fun....until it DOES matter.

That's the trap of never looking past your own tiny pool of experience. You really should carefully consider the opinions of other points of view.

NOTE: That's "You" in the general sense in this post. Not you specifically, @arkanon.

Yeah, the "i dont care i do pet battles and i love bfa!" argument is so short sighted. It was like when germany rolled over a country, and the neighbouring country did nothing and said "its fine, its them, not us" - and then acted shocked when they were next (extreme example i know)

But the overall health of the game is very important. Im not a mythic raider anymore, and never will be again, but i understand the importance of that part of the community. I dont do M+, but if numbers dropped of suddenly and M+ numbers dropped of suddenly, i would be concerned, as my interest (heroic raiding) might be next. I dont really pvp, but i try to understand that concerns with pvp should be acknowledged by all parts of the community, as it really is one big ecosystem, and the game is better when EVERYONE is enjoying it, not just a small minority.

[Aethamus]

A positive for me is that I quit the game cos its so bad, and am having a blast playing ff14, so yay for me?

^ That but I will be trying future expans

[Sansnom]

Plus, if you add that info with things like RealmPop websites and other metrics, you can start to see a pretty clear image of how things are going. It's like measuring a black hole. You can't actually see it, but you CAN measure the effects it has on things around it and form a good idea.

Data collecting is only as good as the method use to collect those data. Just because some third party site is collecting some data does not automatically make it useful.

Besides, the only party that can use such data is Blizzard and they are collecting data in more detail than anyone. They do not have to share it nor should they have to.

Everyone is just speculating based on little information available.

The reason why people keep harping on things like subscriptions and other ways of measuring the game's health is because there's a real concern about the direction the game is going. People can keep telling themselves that none of it matters as long as they're having fun....until it DOES matter.

I will bite. Why does it matter? Why should it be a concern? If for whatever reason Blizzard decides to take the game to a new direction, I will stop playing and move on. They lost a customer in me. Sure. They might gain 100 instead. Good for them. For me, I just move on.

I don't get why it is such a big deal. WoW is not the only video game available. And if people made friends within the game, why can't they remain friends outside of the game?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

MMO-champion is hardly the endbe all of how the game is or should be. People are conflicted and it's easier to complain so on and so forth but I still won't take data from a place like Warcraft realms seriously, Blizzard has the numbers and knows and I doubt it's doom and gloom. 8.2 is on the horizon so that will help. As a note


The people layed off WAS NOT good for Blizzard so if anyone is happy that Activision removed people well...just don't. It was mostly non developer people(Not that non devs don't matter thats...not even true at all). I enjoy Island expeditions, doesn't mean this forum will. I think people need to tone down the rhetoric or the theatrics(OMG THIS SUCKS).

If you're done with WoW, go ahead move on, I doubt most people care. Still we do need a positive wow thread.

[MrExcelion]

Still we do need a positive wow thread.

Here's one at least https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...8-2-and-later)

Generally the forward-looking/speculation megathreads are fun. Hard part is keeping them afloat since this board is so high traffic. Like if it was the 8.1 PTR it'd be a whole more difficult. 8.2 has a lot to talk about. It'd be nice if every major patch had a new zone or two to check out.

Most of the other megathreads on other non-WoW MMOC boards are positive too, because people feel comfortable expressing random tidbits that they thought were cool but don't merit the creation of an entire thread

Another thing this board could do would be to keep a "lounge" thread afloat about whatever like the General Discussion board on the official forums have. I really like how they improved things over there and it's really easy to keep a conversation going with their new board system.

[MoanaLisa]

266 members online at the moment and some of them never post in WoW's forums. It's a pittance and one should be aware that most game forums are not-so-big echo chambers in comparison to the things they're discussing. I imagine most people who are enjoying the game to some extent are playing it and not minding what happens here very much.

Good advice from MrExelion in #374 above this post.

[SirCowdog]

I will bite. Why does it matter? Why should it be a concern? If for whatever reason Blizzard decides to take the game to a new direction, I will stop playing and move on. They lost a customer in me. Sure. They might gain 100 instead. Good for them. For me, I just move on.

I don't get why it is such a big deal. WoW is not the only video game available. And if people made friends within the game, why can't they remain friends outside of the game?

That's not as simple of a question as you make it sound. I'm glad you're willing to simply give up on a decade-long hobby and lose connection with other friends who did the same, but that's not everyone. The simple math of gaining new customers at the cost of old ones sounds like the rationalization of a business, not a person, that thinks of players in numbers instead of people.

As for why it matters? Blizzard is the undisputed leader in the MMORPG genre, and a major player in the videogames industry across the board. What they do echos throughout the entire gaming world. And when they start becoming oblivious to their customers and employees, and begin twisting their entire operation around greedy, unrealistic profits at the cost of everything that made them create good games in the first place?

I think you should ask yourself why you think that's not important.

- - - Updated - - -

266 members online at the moment. It's a pittance and one should be aware that most game forums are not-so-big echo chambers in comparison to the things they're discussing. I imagine most people who are enjoying the game to some extent are playing it and not minding what happens here very much..

See my point about sitting in the "ignorance is bliss" bubble.

I'm glad people are having fun and just playing the game. But the fact that they aren't aware of problems or don't visit forums doesn't mean those problems don't exist. While @arkanon's example above of Nazi Germany invoked Godwin's Law, it's a valid point. Forums might have a higher-than normal, focused aspect of negativity, but that doesn't mean some of the problems being talked about aren't legitimate concerns, or that they couldn't potentially impact players who didn't know they were there.

[siskokid21]

Everywhere you look are mostly negative threads about the game. I understand there are things about Blizz that people don't like *lore being one, while the design team is pretty good*
WTB more positive thoughts about WoW
I'm a big fan of some of the game music myself. Example in Wrath, i'll play with the game sound on...or while in Boralus i'll have it on. There are zones that i hang out in sometimes cause they look really nice. I find the combat system pretty smooth *not clunky like other mmo's i've played*

Please list your positive aspects of the game. No negative crap please!

Forums tend to be the worst place to go if you're looking for positive feedback. Tons of MMO-C users haven't even played WoW for years, yet still decide to contribute hate towards the game. I'd recommend checking out r/wow on reddit if anything, as it tends to be more positive with people who actually still play and enjoy the game.

Some Positives for me:
- Can spend endless amounts of time playing the game. (keys, raid, mount-farm, sales, etc.)
- No other game even comes close to WoW, nothing else sticks for an extended period of time.
- BoD was pretty enjoyable overall as a raid, although maybe slightly under-tuned.
- I enjoy playing with the friends I've made over time.
- Healing, i love playing healers, and sadly there aren't many other games out there where this is possible.
- Keystones allow for improvement and growth, I'm a huge fan of pushing high keys and being competitive in the M+ community.

Let's rewind the clock: at this time in the Legion life cycle, we had already three (!) raids out

BFA currently has 3 raids out as well, and they intentionally delayed the release of BoD so people didn't feel entitled to grind AP and raid over the winter holidays. Legion had you raiding ToV over the holidays and grinding Artifact Power for the release of Nighthold just after the new year. Wasn't exactly a great feeling.

a megadungeon in the form of Karazhan

BFA does have 2 less dungeons than Legion did at this time. Operation: Mechagon is basically the BFA equivalent to Karazhan, which is coming out in around a month or so. M+ was arguably worst at this stage of the expansion however, and Cathedral was so over-tuned at release, that you saw world first guilds having to 2 heal the last boss in keys. Again, not a great feeling.

The continuation of the epic, rich and unique storyline in a zone which was entirely dedicated to it - Suramar.

Mechagon is looking to be competitive with Suramar when it releases

And we were at best, a week or two away from ToS patch, which even if somewhat bare at first, had a feature which arguably was the most played in one Legion - Mage Tower.

ToS was around a month or two out from this point in BFA's cycle. Mage tower was great, however at its release it was tuned around the Mythic raider, which in turn left it to a very small percentage of the playerbase. It wasn't until the end of tomb/early Antorus that the majority of the playerbase were able to actually complete these challenges.

That on top of a new class, unique Order Hall quest lines (12!) which were long, fun and engaging.

This is more of WoW's design philosophy than a legion feature itself. They rotate between a new race and a new class every expansion, with the exception of WoD which had nothing. (and way less content for that matter) BFA has 8 new races, each with new quest lines to unlock them, which is arguably just as fun as the order hall campaign quests were. They've also extended heritage armor quest-lines to a few of the older races. Both of the warfronts also have quests leading into them, although Darkshore is arguably more engaging than Arathi was.

Artifact system with a depth which enticed and motivated.

I don't think the artifact system had much more depth than Azerite gear currently does. If anything Azerite gear actually allows you to make some decision making, while Artifact weapon traits just felt like a grind and predetermined based on whatever golden trait gave the most damage.

BfA is a let-down, straight and simple. It has at best, 3/4 of the content that Legion had.

At this point in legion's patch cycle i was already unsubbed. Legiondaries were terribly implemented at release, with no bad luck protection and even a soft cap preventing you from obtaining more than 4. Not to mention that many of said legendaries were terrible, and required to perform optimally in raid. Emerald nightmare was more undertuned than any raid we've seen so far in BFA, with the only challenging boss being Cenarius. (not even the final boss) Legion had at best 1/5th more content than BFA and that's only because they wanted people to not grind and raid over the holidays.

[MoanaLisa]

See my point about sitting in the "ignorance is bliss" bubble.

I'm glad people are having fun and just playing the game. But the fact that they aren't aware of problems or don't visit forums doesn't mean those problems don't exist.

If they are enjoying the game the way it is that's fine. They don't need to subscribe to your opinions. People are allowed to like different things.

I enjoy a movie. Film critics say it's a terrible movie. I enjoyed it. Fuck them and the review they rode in on. People aren't wrong for enjoying something you disagree with. It's not ignorance. It's a different opinion.

God save us from all of those who believe the opinions rattling around in their heads are objective facts.

[glowpipe]

The people still positive to the game is playing it and avoiding this cesspool. Its sad to see where mmo-champion has gone. It was a wow fan site, now its a wow bashing wall. its riddled with people trashing the game daily. Saying they "moved on" from the game, yet are in the forums talking trash every single day, unfounded garbage and the same shit over and over, nothing new. same complaints.

Yes, bfa has issues, legion had issues. Every single expansion has had issues. You saying "they are adding nothing new to the game, i can't wait for classic" you see how moronic this is and counter-productive ?
"i have stopped playing the game and moved on, but im here daily talking crap in every single thread i can find because it gets me off" funny how you moving on is actually you being obsessed with the game. (you know who you are)

There are still many people playing and enjoying the game. Don't let this place trick you into thinking wow is dead, its far from