Why do people think following a diet doesn't work?

[Skorpionss]

A calorie deficit wasn't even necessary at all on a keto diet, as kind of touched upon here https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post50914635

I know, and it wasn't some brutal deficit, I just ate less than I normally would xD.

[ParanoiD84]

Alot of people want fast results and quit to soon, same with people working out they dont see results in a week or month and quit, it takes alot of time to see results.

[Tsyplenk]

what addictions don’t take self discipline to overcome? your post is completely redundant.

Your mind is completely redundant, overcome an addiction and stop making excuses. Fatties crying constantly saying how they can't stop, get a grip.

[Elkfingers]

So, the argument from the OP is that people say diets don't work because often people who follow them will return to their original weight, but if people just stuck to it and didn't put on weight, the diet would work.

Cool. What an illuminating viewpoint. Or it would be if it didn't miss the point entirely. The entire reason why people who follow crash diets end up relapsing, and Biggest Loser contestants who got down to a healthy weight and are almost all pretty much whale sized again are a pretty good example, is because by necessity you can't lose a lot of weight really fast and have sustainable habits in place at the same time. They're mutually exclusive propositions.

The Biggest Loser is an extreme example, but it's a good one - if you take somebody who weighs >500lb, whose family members are also huge, and place them in an environment where they essentially have no access to food, a rigorous training schedule, and are forced to cut like a UFC fighter, obviously they're going to lose weight. It's literally impossible for them not to, but the issue was never whether they were theoretically capable of shedding pounds. The problem is that when they return home, they haven't formed habits which are conducive to living a healthy lifestyle. Basically you have a person who can either go on a totally unsustainable cut, or the unhealthiest possible bulk - given that they're now surrounded by food and people who eat too much of it. Add to that the fact that they no longer literally live in a gym, and it should surprise absolutely nobody that they're going to choose the unhealthy option.

This, or a less extereme version of this, is the reason why diets don't work. It's entirely possible to lose lots of weight quickly but skin folds aside, the reason why it's a horrible idea is because by the time you reach your goal weight you just have to stop the diet because it would be unhealthy to continue, and now you have nothing whatsoever to replace it with. Additionally, if you lose a lot of weight fast, there is no possible way that you can get adequate nutiriton. With that comes severe muscle atrophy, so now you have a lighter body which is asolutely terrible at burning calories passively, or doing exercise at an intensity that would actually be useful.

By far the most reliable way to lose weight is to eat at a caloric defecit which is reasonable such that it allows you to meet your macros nutrition-wise, and to combine that with a structured program of resistance training and cardio. Not only is that going to produce better results once you're down to your goal body fat %, it's also entirely sustainable because you continue to eat in exactly the same way as you have beforehand, plus a few calories to maintain your new weight/recomp, or plus a few more if you're looking to start a bulk/cut cycle. There is no subsitute for consistency and hard work. If there were some sort of shortcut, we'd all be taking it.

Edit - Also I completely reject the idea that it's somehow the fault of people following crash diets that they don't work. There is loads of shit information about health and nutrition, and unless you have some idea of what you're doing to begin with, it's really easy to be given bad advice that doesn't work. Maybe we should spend less time blaming fat people for being fat, and instead look at the educational factors that lead to it being a problem to begin with. How many times have you heard someone say that they just can't lose weight? I assume that's not because they're lazy - they want to lose weight. They just don't have a fucking clue what they're doing, and we should be helping as a community, not berating them.

Your mind is completely redundant, overcome an addiction and stop making excuses. Fatties crying constantly saying how they can't stop, get a grip.

And this is exactly what I mean. If people could 'just overcome it', they wouldn't have an addiction. How poor do you have to be at thinking to think that's even a remotely reasonable thing to say? Like ok cool. Let's close all of the rehab centres worldwide, because Tsyplenk has made a really good point - they should just get a grip and stop being addicted. Literally nobody has thought that they should 'just stop doing the bad thing'. Nobel prize is in the post mate. You could just as easily apply your amazing new theory to olympic atheletes - 'stop crying about not coming first and just run faster'. See, the problem is that the people coming 2nd and below hadn't thought to just do it better. Real talk, I don't think it's actually possible to give advice that's more useless than that. I'm impressed, in like a weird, sad way.

[Tsyplenk]

And this is exactly what I mean. If people could 'just overcome it', they wouldn't have an addiction. How poor do you have to be at thinking to think that's even a remotely reasonable thing to say? Like ok cool. Let's close all of the rehab centres worldwide, because Tsyplenk has made a really good point - they should just get a grip and stop being addicted. Literally nobody has thought that they should 'just stop doing the bad thing'. Nobel prize is in the post mate. You could just as easily apply your amazing new theory to olympic atheletes - 'stop crying about not coming first and just run faster'. See, the problem is that the people coming 2nd and below hadn't thought to just do it better. Real talk, I don't think it's actually possible to give advice that's more useless than that. I'm impressed, in like a weird, sad way.

Yes they can, people are addicted to smoking and they stop cold turkey, same as drugs. Stop looking for excuses as to why you can't do it and get some mental discipline. No, it's not easy, not it won't happen overnight, but guess what? Nothing does. EVERYTHING takes time. If you don't have the mental capability to stick to something then fine, but don't say "OH DIETS DON'T WORK" "DIETS ARE WAY TOO HARD TO FOLLOW" "I CAN'T LOSE WEIGHT I TRIED SOOOO HARD ((((((". It's nothing to do with the diet, it's with you. You can make all the excuses you want but the fact is people are lazy. Fatties and addicts who don't try hard enough to overcome it are complete idiots, and you're defending them. I'm clearly not talking about the 1% of people that have genetic disorders such as thyroid issues or anything like that so don't try pull that card. Find a diet that works for YOU. It might not be the first one you try but hey that's not a problem, try a different one.

Your example is laughable too. Why don't people stop coming 2nd? Probably because in the end it all comes down to genetics and no matter how good you are, someone is very likely to be better no matter how hard you try. That doesn't apply to addiction, because if you try hard then you will succeed. Really hard to follow that isn't it?

Also, who was talking about crash diets or whatever you were talking about? That's not a proper diet, that's a recipe for disaster.

[Elkfingers]

Yes they can, people are addicted to smoking and they stop cold turkey, same as drugs. Stop looking for excuses as to why you can't do it and get some mental discipline. No, it's not easy, not it won't happen overnight, but guess what? Nothing does. EVERYTHING takes time. If you don't have the mental capability to stick to something then fine, but don't say "OH DIETS DON'T WORK" "DIETS ARE WAY TOO HARD TO FOLLOW" "I CAN'T LOSE WEIGHT I TRIED SOOOO HARD ((((((". It's nothing to do with the diet, it's with you. You can make all the excuses you want but the fact is people are lazy. Fatties and addicts who don't try hard enough to overcome it are complete idiots, and you're defending them. I'm clearly not talking about the 1% of people that have genetic disorders such as thyroid issues or anything like that so don't try pull that card. Find a diet that works for YOU. It might not be the first one you try but hey that's not a problem, try a different one.

Your example is laughable too. Why don't people stop coming 2nd? Probably because in the end it all comes down to genetics and no matter how good you are, someone is very likely to be better no matter how hard you try. That doesn't apply to addiction, because if you try hard then you will succeed. Really hard to follow that isn't it?

Also, who was talking about crash diets or whatever you were talking about? That's not a proper diet, that's a recipe for disaster.

Amazing. You speak as though I am myself making excuses, for myself. I have discipline. I didn't in the past, and used to be overweight whereas now I'm in absolutely incredible shape. I speak from experience, and it took lots of hard work, and lots of research, and it also wasn't all my effort. I have a support network, a good education, access to facilities and the money to use them. Not everyone has that, so I can't say that it was all me. That would be a lie. I've also seen people who try really fucking hard to overcome their problems but entropy wins. You realise, surely, that most drug addicts and smokers don't succeed in quitting cold turkey, right? I presume given how strong your viewpoint is that you also realise that for many drug addicts especially, quitting cold turkey is probably the worst possible idea.

In an ideal world, I could just go 'why don't you just do what I did and deal with it yourself', but if it were that simple then they'd have done it. I genuinely can't comprehend how thick you have to be such that you're incapable of grasping that things which come easily to one person may not come as easily to another.

Your counterpoint about genetics really doesn't help your argument like you think it does. It proves my point. Even if someone puts in just as much effort as somebody else, it doesn't mean they're going to acheive the same results. That applies to literally everything, because everyone is different. Judging someone for struggling to lose weight is in exactly the same category as judging somebody for performing sub-optimally at a sport. Genetics play a role, and it is harder for some people than it is for others. The brain is a physical object, and the same applies - it's not as easy for some people to commit to a course of action as it is for others, even if it's going to help them. In your case, if your brain was better at following a thought through to its logical conclusion, you wouldn't have made a point that does the exact opposite of what you think it does.

Like if dieting and exercise comes easily to you, or it's something you've been able to incorporate into your life, as it is for me, great. Well done. Have a fucking cookie. Given that's something you're able to do, how is it not better to help other people who might struggle, rather than being a total dick and judging them as inferior.

It's really easy to judge people when you know absoutely fuck all about what they have to overcome. Let's be real. Telling people that if they don't get what they want they just haven't worked hard enough sounds good, but if someone is trying, regardless of what that looks like, it's not helpful. In the end, it's just you trying to position yourself as better than others, which is a callous and shitty thing to do.

[White Goodman1]

They don't follow it.

[Sughs]

I think most people don't do diets right. They either go too hard or too fast.

[Tsyplenk]

Amazing. You speak as though I am myself making excuses, for myself. I have discipline. I didn't in the past, and used to be overweight whereas now I'm in absolutely incredible shape. I speak from experience, and it took lots of hard work, and lots of research, and it also wasn't all my effort. I have a support network, a good education, access to facilities and the money to use them. Not everyone has that, so I can't say that it was all me. That would be a lie. I've also seen people who try really fucking hard to overcome their problems but entropy wins. You realise, surely, that most drug addicts and smokers don't succeed in quitting cold turkey, right? I presume given how strong your viewpoint is that you also realise that for many drug addicts especially, quitting cold turkey is probably the worst possible idea.

In an ideal world, I could just go 'why don't you just do what I did and deal with it yourself', but if it were that simple then they'd have done it. I genuinely can't comprehend how thick you have to be such that you're incapable of grasping that things which come easily to one person may not come as easily to another.

Your counterpoint about genetics really doesn't help your argument like you think it does. It proves my point. Even if someone puts in just as much effort as somebody else, it doesn't mean they're going to acheive the same results. That applies to literally everything, because everyone is different. Judging someone for struggling to lose weight is in exactly the same category as judging somebody for performing sub-optimally at a sport. Genetics play a role, and it is harder for some people than it is for others. The brain is a physical object, and the same applies - it's not as easy for some people to commit to a course of action as it is for others, even if it's going to help them. In your case, if your brain was better at following a thought through to its logical conclusion, you wouldn't have made a point that does the exact opposite of what you think it does.

Like if dieting and exercise comes easily to you, or it's something you've been able to incorporate into your life, as it is for me, great. Well done. Have a fucking cookie. Given that's something you're able to do, how is it not better to help other people who might struggle, rather than being a total dick and judging them as inferior.

It's really easy to judge people when you know absoutely fuck all about what they have to overcome. Let's be real. Telling people that if they don't get what they want they just haven't worked hard enough sounds good, but if someone is trying, regardless of what that looks like, it's not helpful. In the end, it's just you trying to position yourself as better than others, which is a callous and shitty thing to do.

Obviously not directed at you specifically and rather in general...

I can't believe how thick you are to see that whilst some people will have a harder time at doing it than others, it is still possible and not unachievable like you're making out. Some people will have a harder time than others, boo hoo, cry me a river. It's all still possible and all this other bullshit you're chatting to try and make it into an excuse is just incoherent shite.

My genetics argument works exactly how I want, just you're seemingly too stupid to understand it. EVERYONE can lose weight, EVERYONE. Not everyone can be number 1 at something, you are limited. Yes, as discussed, some people can have a harder time than others. A HARDER TIME, NOT IMPOSSIBLE like you're trying to make out.

No, dieting and exercise did not come easy to me. No, I've never been MASSIVELY fat and never will be. Know why? Because I have some self control. I love fizzy drinks, takeaways, unhealthy shit, you name it, but even when I was at my worst I would still question my habits, and even though I did put weight on I didn't get anywhere near as big as most people. Now I am in decent shape and relatively strong, also know why? Because of discipline. You know how many times I finish a rough day at work and want to fuck the gym off or cba cooking decent food and want to get a takeaway or something? MANY MANY times. It's called discipline, yes it's not easy but it's doable if you have some self control. It's not fucking hard.

You can chat all the shit you want about how hard people have it or something or how it's impossible to lose weight, unless you have some very serious thyroid condition or something similar then you're just chatting shit and making excuses. Pull your finger out and give it a good fucking go instead of quitting instantly because you're a fat and lazy.

https://pics.me.me/and-this-is-where...e-18287088.png

[Aurgjelme]

Going to the gym or walks and intermittent fasting is amazing. I have a 8 hour window for eating, that starts at lunch at work at 12, and my last chance for a meal is at 8 in the evening.

It was hard to adjust the first two weeks, but now I have no cravings for breakfast or a late night snack. I have even lost the sugar cravings I would get from seeing candy or bread food in the store.

[Elkfingers]

Obviously not directed at you specifically and rather in general...

I can't believe how thick you are to see that whilst some people will have a harder time at doing it than others, it is still possible and not unachievable like you're making out. Some people will have a harder time than others, boo hoo, cry me a river. It's all still possible and all this other bullshit you're chatting to try and make it into an excuse is just incoherent shite.

My genetics argument works exactly how I want, just you're seemingly too stupid to understand it. EVERYONE can lose weight, EVERYONE. Not everyone can be number 1 at something, you are limited. Yes, as discussed, some people can have a harder time than others. A HARDER TIME, NOT IMPOSSIBLE like you're trying to make out.

No, dieting and exercise did not come easy to me. No, I've never been MASSIVELY fat and never will be. Know why? Because I have some self control. I love fizzy drinks, takeaways, unhealthy shit, you name it, but even when I was at my worst I would still question my habits, and even though I did put weight on I didn't get anywhere near as big as most people. Now I am in decent shape and relatively strong, also know why? Because of discipline. You know how many times I finish a rough day at work and want to fuck the gym off or cba cooking decent food and want to get a takeaway or something? MANY MANY times. It's called discipline, yes it's not easy but it's doable if you have some self control. It's not fucking hard.

You can chat all the shit you want about how hard people have it or something or how it's impossible to lose weight, unless you have some very serious thyroid condition or something similar then you're just chatting shit and making excuses. Pull your finger out and give it a good fucking go instead of quitting instantly because you're a fat and lazy.

https://pics.me.me/and-this-is-where...e-18287088.png

Everything is theoretically possible. It is however less likely if it's harder. The fact that you can on the one hand accept that it is more difficult for some, and on the other chat mad shit about how other people are fat and lazy is absolutely ridiculous. Cognitive dissonance strong.

If the most significant issues you can cite as things that might take your eye off the ball are having a job, and sometimes you're a bit tired and would rather have a takeaway but you still have the energy to cook anyway so it's like, not a massive deal, then congrats my dude. I'm not saying your life is easy because nobody's is and what seems like a problem is dictated by your perspective anyway, but objectively speaking that's not too bad.

If someone has, for example, crippling depression and has to fight against their own brain chemistry on a daily basis, it is literally going to be harder for them to get up and do shit like other people, and really getting out of the house for some people is a huge deal, and a fucking achievment if they manage it. Thing is you don't know what's going on in people's lives when you just judge them completely superficially, and impose your perspective on them as though if something's not a problem for you it shouldn't be for anyone, you completely ignore the fact that they probably have other shit that's going on. People don't go round broadcasting their mental states, but I guarantee if somebody has eaten so much that washing is difficult, it's probably not because they're having a great time.

I guess what I'm saying is that you should try having some empathy for other people.

[Craaazyyy]

I don't think you understand the physiological changes that happen after significant weight loss. Clearly weight loss is possible. But there are hormonal changes that increase your appetite, making your body want to return to its previous weight.

well, you have the capacity to deal with the changes.. you have to expect the changes and be able to deal with them, its not an excuse

[Celista]

well, you have the capacity to deal with the changes.. you have to expect the changes and be able to deal with them, its not an excuse

Eh. I suspect that everyone is wired a bit differently and some people have a stronger hunger drive than others. I've seen people eat amounts of food that would make me physically sick, not even accounting for type of food...but it clearly doesn't affect others the same way, otherwise no one would be overweight. I think it's probably safer to assume that there are contributing biological reasons why people are the way they are, instead of simply assuming that other people are weak or lazy.

[Craaazyyy]

Eh. I suspect that everyone is wired a bit differently and some people have a stronger hunger drive than others. I've seen people eat amounts of food that would make me physically sick, not even accounting for type of food...but it clearly doesn't affect others the same way, otherwise no one would be overweight. I think it's probably safer to assume that there are contributing biological reasons why people are the way they are, instead of simply assuming that other people are weak or lazy.

again any human has the capacity to deal with it.. just because its harder for some is not an excuse

[Celista]

again any human has the capacity to deal with it.. just because its harder for some is not an excuse

You don't know how hard it is for those people or not. Nor do I, but I suspect I'm more right than you are.

[Raetary]

Because people try to change too hard and too fast then are unable to commit to it and just give up after a fairly short amount of time.

[Craaazyyy]

You don't know how hard it is for those people or not. Nor do I, but I suspect I'm more right than you are.

humans have the capacity to control their behavior..

[Celista]

humans have the capacity to control their behavior..

We live in a society where there's food everywhere and a crap ton of it is high calorie, if someone is truly addicted to food then they're going to have a much harder time than, say, someone with a crack addiction.

Also eating disorders like binge eating disorder have a genetic basis, some people really are just wired differently. Feel free to look it up.

[Elkfingers]

again any human has the capacity to deal with it.. just because its harder for some is not an excuse

Of course the fact that it is harder is an excuse. That is literally what an excuse is - a reason which mitigates the blame for something. Like on a fundamental level the validity of all excuses come down to how difficult it would have been to do the thing.

Just because it's theoretically possible to do something doesn't mean that there can be no excuses for not doing it. It is theoretically possible for anybody to rescue someone from a burning building, but unless they were also a firefighter on shift you wouldn't say that they had 'no excuse' not to do it. That would be ridiculous. A firefighter has training and equipment - it's easier for them to do it, and it's their job so they're also obligated.

Somebody who finds it difficult to lose weight may not have the same ability to do so as somebody else, it's not their job to be within whatever body fat range you arbitrarily deem acceptable, they're under no obligation to do so, and mainly it's absolutely none of your business.

What an absolutely insane position to double down on.

[Craaazyyy]

Of course the fact that it is harder is an excuse. That is literally what an excuse is - a reason which mitigates the blame for something. Like on a fundamental level the validity of all excuses come down to how difficult it would have been to do the thing.

Just because it's theoretically possible to do something doesn't mean that there can be no excuses for not doing it. It is theoretically possible for anybody to rescue someone from a burning building, but unless they were also a firefighter on shift you wouldn't say that they had 'no excuse' not to do it. That would be ridiculous. A firefighter has training and equipment - it's easier for them to do it, and it's their job so they're also obligated.

Somebody who finds it difficult to lose weight may not have the same ability to do so as somebody else, it's not their job to be within whatever body fat range you arbitrarily deem acceptable, they're under no obligation to do so, and mainly it's absolutely none of your business.

What an absolutely insane position to double down on.

its not an excuse tho.. a proper excuse is something that is/was out of your control, this isnt

its none of my business you're right, but then fat people shouldnt get mad when they're told that they're fat, when they're forced to buy two tickets instead of one because they're using two seats etc.

ofc some people have eating disorders and other health problems preventing them from losing weight, but quite frankly its a low% of all the overweight people

its also not a matter of having a different type of job that isnt allowing something, its about that person's decision not to do anything about being fat.. accepting it, making excuses.. if you dont want to deal with being called fat or other things you have to deal with you almost always can lose weight.. again, is it harder for some? for sure, but almost every overweight person can lose weight

i quite frankly dont give a shit if someone is fat, its their choice, but being fat just simply isnt healthy and is just simply bad for anyone