It Will Be A Different Vanilla

[Najnaj]

Yeah, and Ele is still VASTLY better in every single way.
You're getting blinded by an enhance shammy crit reel, which is pretty hilarious.

I'm not taking anything away from Stormx, he's a fucking fantastic player, but those are some extremely cherry picked clips. It's the same argument people brought up when Unbreakable released all those years ago.
"BUT HE'S OP, HE CAN ONE SHOT ON EVERY SWING" without realising that Windfury rarely went off, and when it did it rarely triple procced.


Meanwhile, an Ele shaman can do about 3.5 - 5k damage in two globals with gear, consistantly.

..and you think that is great?

Are you arguing against me or you?

[Gungnir]

..and you think that is great?

Are you arguing against me or you?

Considering your cherry picked video has, at most, around 3.5k damage in a swing that's entirely unreliable.
Compared to, again a safe estimate, 3.5 - 5k RELIABLE damage against plate targets aswell.

Also, for comparison, a BWL/AQ geared Nightfall/Conflag warlock could do around 3.5 - 5k in two globals aswell, with some lucky shadowbolt and conflag crits.
The more and more you post, the less I think you actually know about Vanilla in general.

[Najnaj]

Considering your cherry picked video has, at most, around 3.5k damage in a swing that's entirely unreliable.
Compared to, again a safe estimate, 3.5 - 5k RELIABLE damage against plate targets aswell.

Also, for comparison, a BWL/AQ geared Nightfall/Conflag warlock could do around 3.5 - 5k in two globals aswell, with some lucky shadowbolt and conflag crits.
The more and more you post, the less I think you actually know about Vanilla in general.

So you are arguing against yourself then ....

[Gungnir]

So you are arguing against yourself then ....

I don't think you understand the argument, nor your own stance, nor where you're trying to go with it.

Nowhere in my posts have I somehow argued against my point of Ele being superior to Enhance when it comes to shaman PvP in Vanilla, everything I've stated have reaffirmed my stance and points, aswell as other posters chiming in on it.


You need to get some sleep my dude.
I mean you're trying to argue that a spec that gets AT BEST around the same damage, usually far less, with extreme amounts of RNG and melee range.. is somehow worse than a spec with the same tools, same damage potential but very reliably so, is ranged and has better healing thanks to a far large mana pool.
In no way does any of that make sense.

[Najnaj]

I don't think you understand the argument, nor your own stance, nor where you're trying to go with it.

Nowhere in my posts have I somehow argued against my point of Ele being superior to Enhance when it comes to shaman PvP in Vanilla, everything I've stated have reaffirmed my stance and points, aswell as other posters chiming in on it.


You need to get some sleep my dude.

..that isn't the point!

Depending on which patch you use one class will be stupidly OP. The 2 that I remember are 2h enhance and affliction locks. THere was also a time where hunters with surv hybrid specs were insane,,,and then they were garbage. People complain about balancing today but if you go back and implement 1.12 as it was with no rebalancing it will not be very successful.

I am sure Ele Shammys were insane at one point but it looks like 1.12 it was enhancement given the amount of vids you have on YouTube. I honestly can not remember the exact dates. Either way is is not important, the point is that is was wildly unbalanced.

[Zyky]

What the fuck is "dual wield fury tank"?

That's not a thing. That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!

Inb4 all the Vanilla casuals shout "but dungeons!!!!"

[Gungnir]

..that isn't the point!

Depending on which patch you use one class will be stupidly OP. The 2 that I remember are 2h enhance and affliction locks. THere was also a time where hunters with surv hybrid specs were insane,,,and then they were garbage. People complain about balancing today but if you go back and implement 1.12 as it was with no rebalancing it will not be very successful.

I am sure Ele Shammys were insane at one point but it looks like 1.12 it was enhancement given the amount of vids you have on YouTube. I honestly can not remember the exact dates. Either way is is not important, the point is that is was wildly unbalanced.

Enhance was never OP as it was ALWAYS outpaced by Elemental, in every patch. It's not like Vanilla was some wild wasteland where every patch, 150% nerf/buff modifiers were thrown around.
A few specs got talent revamps, most notably warriors and warlocks around patch 1.6 and became more viable. Affliction was only great in the sustain category, they did almost no damage but you'd be hardpressed to kill them though.

Meanwhile, at every point in the entire game, rogues were always at the forefront in every facet. Yes Vanilla was "unbalanced" but you don't seem to know which specs were unbalanced.

[Najnaj]

Enhance was never OP as it was ALWAYS outpaced by Elemental, in every patch. It's not like Vanilla was some wild wasteland where every patch, 150% nerf/buff modifiers were thrown around.
A few specs got talent revamps, most notably warriors and warlocks around patch 1.6 and became more viable. Affliction was only great in the sustain category, they did almost no damage but you'd be hardpressed to kill them though.

Meanwhile, at every point in the entire game, rogues were always at the forefront in every facet. Yes Vanilla was "unbalanced" but you don't seem to know which specs were unbalanced.

You can just google and find out rather than argue stupid shit you know ....

[Maudib]

I prefer a WoW less dependant on individual skill though. Not because i lack it, but because i find it more entertaining to do research, theorycrafting and planning. I'm a nerd. Nowadays in WoW you just spam whatever content you can access and cross your fingers for titanforged loot. Skill has become too important in the game.

Blizzard already has a purely skill-based loot-driven game, it's called Diablo 3. I dont know why the insist on making WoW it's clone.



Skill yes, knowledge no. Only at high-end Mythic difficulties, and mostly because the game has become way more focused on end-game content and player inclusion into it.

I 100% agree with everything you wrote. I cannot stand modern WoW because it no longer is rewarding or fun to play. It's a hamster wheel that never ends, with no measurable rewards whatsoever. No places where you get to relax and enjoy the fruits of your "labors"... the progression plateaus where you get to feel.. "I did it!"

[Animalhouse]

bro you're arguing with a guy called Animalhouse that wants to play a humanoid that can shapeshift into different animal forms. His bias is immense, he's probably just another furry.

I actually feel a little sad for the people that think prot paladins or feral druids are competitive choices for a tank. They're in for a rude awakening and some of them are just a lost cause. I wouldn't bother with them at this point.

Animalhouse was my hunters name. My original vanilla/BC main. My druid has a completely different name. I have had the name on these forums since 2008 because that was and many still call me (actually Animal). Anamalhouse was not because I was into furrys but because I was a bit of a party animal...hence the movie reference.

I will not be in for a rude awakening because I tank in feral on an unamed vanilla server now just fine and test out various combinations of talents and gear in my own offline version. There is no bias because I know wtf I am talking about as opposed to someone like yourself who is drawing on 14 year old false memories.

Seriously, why do so many of you just talk out of your ass with these false absolutes?!

[Trend]

People ALWAYS get better with time, that's a universal constant, that's basic human physiology.

I disagree with almost everything I've seen you write, but this line is particularly funny. You use the CAPS emphasis and other strong statements to try to make your opinion sound like a fact. Whether we agree or disagree, it's clearly an opinion, or in scientific terms a theory. Can you prove your theory? Of course not, which is why it is not a fact. Plus it's not even a good theory. People suck and they're not getting better. Just read a newspaper, or better yet read a forum.

[Gungnir]

I disagree with almost everything I've seen you write, but this line is particularly funny. You use the CAPS emphasis and other strong statements to try to make your opinion sound like a fact. Whether we agree or disagree, it's clearly an opinion, or in scientific terms a theory. Can you prove your theory? Of course not, which is why it is not a fact. Plus it's not even a good theory. People suck and they're not getting better. Just read a newspaper, or better yet read a forum.

You misunderstood the fact that I was talking about an individual being exposed to a system he is freely allowed to manipulate in challenging situations, and you are apparently assuming that the person can do so for 10 years and not improve at all.

That's just factually incorrect, you ALWAYS improve if you are doing the same thing for a long time, even if you don't push yourself. Your reactions improve, your thought processes improve as you start information chunking to speed up your decision making, because you are familiar with the system after 10 years of interacting with it.
If you're going to sit here and go "nah, in 10 years you never improve in any measurable sense, you are equally clueless as you first started" then I suppose you take a look at human evolution and the fact that you can, for example, differentiate a beginner drummer from an expert drummer.

Kindly get fucked as you're outright wrong.
Inb4 "well it's in my opinion that you can't improve", which is mind-bogglingy stupid in of itself but not too surprising given the context.

[Axxil]

I recall how rare it was to see Druid tanks in major raiding guilds, and offspecs/hybrids as well.

This time round willing to bet that will change. I think we will see people going for those specs and doing well -especially druid tanks.

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ntent/35613/96

https://docs.google.com/document/u/2...CDZdxC7lEE/pub

If by rare you mean never, then yes.

[anon5123]

Again, you can be defense capped on a druid, I know I was.

Okay, please show us what gear you can equip to get +140 defense on a druid.

[Najnaj]

Okay, please show us what gear you can equip to get +140 defense on a druid.

Are you asking me to google for you? This was 10ish years ago ...

Feel free to search on rings, trinkets, weapons, cloaks, necklaces, chants, consumables and what not. I can not remember if you had any leather gear with def on it but I don't think you did besides greens.

[kenn9530]

Okay, please show us what gear you can equip to get +140 defense on a druid.

they can easily add in a few extra items for certain classes to make every spec suitable, your not getting the true classic experience anyway starting at the last patch of vanilla,

[Spiffums]

What the fuck is "dual wield fury tank"?

That's not a thing. That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!

Ive seen that in heroics.......but I doubt it would work in Classic.

[anon5123]

Are you asking me to google for you? This was 10ish years ago ...

You're the one who made the claim.

It's your job to back up your claims with evidence.

Feel free to search on rings, trinkets, weapons, cloaks, necklaces, chants, consumables and what not.

There's literally 0 leather gear with defense on it, you would need to get a full set of "Of Defense" greens to even come close to +140, and with that you would have no other stats.

- - - Updated - - -

they can easily add in a few extra items for certain classes to make every spec suitable, your not getting the true classic experience anyway starting at the last patch of vanilla,

ah of course, okay, let's just add LFR and flying mounts too because "it's not true classic experience anyway"

[chrisnumbers]

Okay, please show us what gear you can equip to get +140 defense on a druid.

Not exactly what you're asking for but this looks like a good writeup:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49320738

[kenn9530]

ah of course, okay, let's just add LFR and flying mounts too because "it's not true classic experience anyway"

its gear that should of been there in vanilla like pally healing plate, vanilla will last even less if people cant play the classes they enjoy instead of being forced into the meta. Vanilla will never be true unless they launched it from the first patch.