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  1. #1

    [M+] Raging, Volcanic, Tyrann - time to push M+ now?

    What is your experience with "higher" M+ dungeons and the affixes in season 2?

    I play Resto Druid on EU and the last week was really challenging and exhausting having to heal through bursting with quaking.
    Is this week gonna be a lil kitty compared to last weeks? What is your experience?

    I have recently been playing some M+ 10s, and I really wanna push somewhere closer to 15. Would this week be a good affix combination?

    Thanks for sharing!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    What is your experience with "higher" M+ dungeons and the affixes in season 2?

    I play Resto Druid on EU and the last week was really challenging and exhausting having to heal through bursting with quaking.
    Is this week gonna be a lil kitty compared to last weeks? What is your experience?

    I have recently been playing some M+ 10s, and I really wanna push somewhere closer to 15. Would this week be a good affix combination?

    Thanks for sharing!
    This is prolly the closet you get to a "free" week. Stuff can still 1 shot you with raging if people aint careful and playing smart, but it dosnt get much easier affix combinations than these.

  3. #3
    "Free" week if you have rage removal. And as druid you have it. But this means if you won't have another one it's your job to remove enrage from most needed targets (the faster the better). (Examlpe: Zul in King's Rest, mini-bosses in Storms, most casters that frequently cast single target hard hitting bolts at tank and ect.) But even if you won't it's not as punishing as Rage+Fortified (where it leads to 1-shoots).

    p.s. compared to previous week this is a cakewalk
    Last edited by TorikSAn; 2019-04-26 at 12:25 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Flashforcash View Post
    This is prolly the closet you get to a "free" week.
    Yes, this is one of the 2 affix combo weeks I'd sure go for +15 achievement. I've done mine on tyranical + teeming + volcanic week and the dungeons were much easier than some degenerate affix combo (fortified teeming explosive anyone?)

    Raging / teeming are less of a problem on tyranical week, much bigger on fortified. But not even sure if raging is paired with it (no idea why teeming is then).

    If you do mass aoe pulls be prepared for heavy tank damage when all mobs reach enrage level (save cds) and dispel enrage from the most dangerous mobs, then you should be fine.

    This is probably last "gimme" week in this season, so if you wanna push or go for achievement, I'd defo put time into it over the weekend.

  5. #5
    Yeah, not going to say "free" but totally one of the easiest weeks to push 15+

  6. #6
    You still have to do the tyrannical bosses, but the trash is really easy this week and inexperienced players can easily do big pulls

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Atherions View Post
    You still have to do the tyrannical bosses, but the trash is really easy this week and inexperienced players can easily do big pulls
    Coven and KR Council are the only remotely dangerous bosses this week and that's only when doing really high keys as well.

    Tyranical mostly just makes bosses take longer. Grievous Fortified week has harder bosses then this. Quaking is also worse for certain boss fights then tyranical. Honestly tyr/fort should just be removed and re-balance the dungeon to be half way on both. Tyranical is literally a worthless affix outside of being paired with Grievous or Quaking and even then, it's the additional ones that make it a problem. Tyrannical on weeks like this is a damn snooze fest.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Coven and KR Council are the only remotely dangerous bosses this week and that's only when doing really high keys as well.
    On 21+ keys
    FH Skycap'n Kragg: one-shots with Azerite Powder Shot.
    FH Council: Eudora one-shots with Powder Shot.
    KR Golden Serpent: Spit Gold ticks for 160k++ damage.
    KR Council: Severing Axe ticks for crazy damage.
    TD Korgus: many Explosive Burst doubles will fuck you over, just RNG, with very little counter-play.
    WM every boss except Raal is dangerous.
    ...

    Can list many more dangerous bosses with easier counter-play. Temple Aspix&Adderis are always very dangerous, but at some point you learn to play them consistently.
    Last edited by ID811717; 2019-04-27 at 08:06 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    Can list many more dangerous bosses with easier counter-play. Temple Aspix&Adderis are always very dangerous, but at some point you learn to play them consistently.
    Out play? You mean like simply avoid the damage seeing as your entire list only has 3 bosses with dangerous and unavoidable damage(2 of which I ackknowledged in Council and Coven) and if your healer is having trouble keeping up with Spit Gold when there is literally no other damage happening on that fight at the time they shouldn't be doing a "21+".

    But tell me more about how you get hit by powder shots in FH lmfao.

  10. #10
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    Yes, it's one of the easiest weeks to push and/or beat existing times on dungeons. Despite doing a number of m+ each week, my io page is a hilarious list of nothing but volcanics (and one solitary necrotic) just because if you play at all this week you're almost certainly going to get better times than you had prior weeks with "harder" affixes.

    There are some tough bosses on tyrannical but overall I'd say it's an easier affix than fortified in nearly every dungeon, and that's especially so on raging weeks.


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  11. #11
    yeah there are a few walls on tyr though right now, notably high tol dagor last boss and KR 1st boss

    this is what happened in legion too
    tyrannical was big early in the xpac, then people just started getting 1shot and stuff and tanks got tanky, and fort became the push week

    granted tanks are squishy as all fuck this xpac, so I think it's gonna be a bit of a slower process

    and unfortunately we lack things like prydaz, gear swapping, and artifact traits to make the gaps fill in

    like hell, in late legion we were facing 1 shots from tyr EoA as low as 18 tyr...
    Last edited by ryklin; 2019-04-27 at 05:12 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Out play? You mean like simply avoid the damage seeing as your entire list only has 3 bosses with dangerous and unavoidable damage(2 of which I ackknowledged in Council and Coven) and if your healer is having trouble keeping up with Spit Gold when there is literally no other damage happening on that fight at the time they shouldn't be doing a "21+".

    But tell me more about how you get hit by powder shots in FH lmfao.
    I don't even know where to start. It sounds that you don't have enough experience doing high keys to have a good insight in fight difficulty.

    Do you know that there are numerous ways to avoid or remove Severing Axe debuff on KR 3rd boss? DH can Blade Dance, Rogue can Evasion, Mage can Ice Block, Paladins can Bubble and BoP, and so on. Do you know that Severing Axe deals exactly the same DPS as Spit Gold? Only the DoT duration and the tick rate are different. But you should not get more than four Severing Axe casts (you often get just three), you can dodge most of them, and your personal and external cooldowns will align better with the DoTs that go through.

    In comparison, KR 1st boss is 3:30-4:00 min long endurance fight where the DoT is up on someone 65% of the time. It requires good coordination of personal vs. external cooldowns throughout the entire fight. That is also why the RNG plays a big role on that fight. If Spit Gold keeps choosing the same target, you'll run out of cooldowns sooner. And if that is a melee player, they will also lose a lot of DPS. You do need a lot of healing on this boss, but you appear blissfully unaware of what this boss fight is actually about.

    Tell me what part of the 3rd KR boss you find dangerous and unavoidable if the 1st boss is easy for you?

    (Once we're done with King's Rest, I will be happy to speak about rogues that succeed to line of sight 348k Powder Shots once every 4 seconds. Meanwhile, for the record, can you tell which one is presumably the only new boss from my list that has dangerous and unavoidable damage?)
    Last edited by ID811717; 2019-04-28 at 09:41 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    Do you know that there are numerous ways to avoid or remove Severing Axe debuff on KR 3rd boss? DH can Blade Dance, Rogue can Evasion, Mage can Ice Block, Paladins can Bubble and BoP, and so on. Do you know that Severing Axe deals exactly the same DPS as Spit Gold? Only the DoT duration and the tick rate are different. But you should not get more than four Severing Axe casts (you often get just three), you can dodge most of them, and your personal and external cooldowns will align better with the DoTs that go through.

    In comparison, KR 1st boss is 3:30-4:00 min long endurance fight where the DoT is up on someone 65% of the time. It requires good coordination of personal vs. external cooldowns throughout the entire fight. That is also why the RNG plays a big role on that fight. If Spit Gold keeps choosing the same target, you'll run out of cooldowns sooner. And if that is a melee player, they will also lose a lot of DPS. You do need a lot of healing on this boss, but you appear blissfully unaware of what this boss fight is actually about.

    Tell me what part of the 3rd KR boss you find dangerous and unavoidable if the 1st boss is easy for you?
    I think your math is off on this; severing axe dot deals almost twice the amount of damage over its liftetime than the gold spit. Each tick is less, but it ticks every 2 sec (vs every 3 sec) and it lasts 20 seconds vs 9 seconds.

    I also think its a little disingenuous to call something avoidable damage just because some specs can remove or negate the affects of it. Colloquially, people use the phrase "unavoidable damage" to refer to damage that is applied to players as a innate part of the encounter rather than as the result of a failure at a mechanic. If you're counting immunities then almost all damage in the game would be considering avoidable, but that's not realistic because not everyone has cooldowns and those cooldowns won't always be available. I also question the validity of "you can avoid most of them" since that's going to greatly depend on your group comp and who gets picked. (fwiw not every rogue spec gets evasion)

    Difficulty doesn't exist in a vacuum that is purely mathematical, either. You also need to factor in that the healer is moving pretty often on the third boss verses the first. Despite the higher total uptime throughout the fight of spit on the first boss, I personally find dealing with the severing axe a lot more challenging as a healer just because I can't just spam heals stationary like I can with the spit. Having to dodge axes myself adds another layer of challenge that is completely absent on the first boss. The axe DoT is the one place we occasionally lose people on tyrannical weeks, if it picks someone who doesn't have a cooldown available; I can't remember the last time I had someone die to the spit. That's going to depend on healer kit and strengths and weaknesses for their particular spec of course, but my point is that just comparing things like ticket damage or uptime on its own is an incomplete way to look at things.

    Finally, the entire argument that the severing axe isn't "dangerous and unavoidable" just because there is more dangerous and more unavoidable damage out there is silly anyway. It's not mutually exclusive. I'd consider both effects to be dangerous and if we're not counting special immunity cooldowns -- and I'd argue we shouldn't -- they are both unavoidable. Someone calling the axe that is just a bizarre thing to attack someone over.


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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I think your math is off on this; severing axe dot deals almost twice the amount of damage over its liftetime than the gold spit. Each tick is less, but it ticks every 2 sec (vs every 3 sec) and it lasts 20 seconds vs 9 seconds.
    The math is correct. Both dots deal 64k DPS on +22 tyrannical:
    - Spit Gold ticks for 192k damage once every 3 seconds;
    - Severing Axe ticks for 128k damage once every 2 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I also think its a little disingenuous to call something avoidable damage just because some specs can remove or negate the affects of it. Colloquially, people use the phrase "unavoidable damage" to refer to damage that is applied to players as a innate part of the encounter rather than as the result of a failure at a mechanic.
    You seem to have overthought what I wrote. There was no philosophical meaning or word play behind the phrase "avoid or remove Severing Axe". I could have used "dodge" or "evade" instead of "avoid" here, but the latter is the most precise term because it is general enough to encompass multiple ways to not get the debuff.

    I simply explained how the bosses are being played on high keys. You can (you have to) counter certain mechanics, and it ultimately affects the difficulty of the bosses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    not everyone has cooldowns and those cooldowns won't always be available. I also question the validity of "you can avoid most of them" since that's going to greatly depend on your group comp and who gets picked. (fwiw not every rogue spec gets evasion)
    You should plan to have the cooldowns up when you need them the most.
    We're speaking about 21+ tyrannical keys up there. Most groups will have at least two DPS players who can avoid the DoT (for example rogue+dh, or rogue+mage, or rogue+rogue).
    Outlaw's Riposte also works to avoid the DoT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Difficulty doesn't exist in a vacuum that is purely mathematical, either. You also need to factor in that the healer is moving pretty often on the third boss verses the first.
    There are some comfortable spots away from the center of the spiral that let you minimize your movement, so that you only have to inch a bit inwards or outwards before you can start casting the next non-instant heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    my point is that just comparing things like ticket damage or uptime on its own is an incomplete way to look at things.
    Point taken. The author of the above post has the freedom to specify what spec they are playing that makes 3rd boss so much harder. Nothing was specified, so their claim is essentially that 3rd boss is hard and 1st boss is easy, in a vacuum. This claim has no merit if you just look at the generic things like damage intake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Finally, the entire argument that the severing axe isn't "dangerous and unavoidable" just because there is more dangerous and more unavoidable damage out there is silly anyway.
    But I made no such argument. If you scroll up, you will see my argument was that there are many dangerous bosses in high tyrannical keys, not just two or three. I essentially represent this opinion:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    It's not mutually exclusive. I'd consider both effects to be dangerous and if we're not counting special immunity cooldowns -- and I'd argue we shouldn't -- they are both unavoidable. Someone calling the axe that is just a bizarre thing to attack someone over.
    My argument was that Severing Axe is a dangerous ability, but there is no way to spin Spit Gold as an easy ability in comparison. If anything, Spit Gold is much harder to deal with. It's my opponent who apparently thinks the 1st KR boss is a walkover. You got it upside down.
    Last edited by ID811717; 2019-04-29 at 06:18 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    The math is correct. Both dots deal 64k DPS on +22 tyrannical:
    - Spit Gold ticks for 192k damage once every 3 seconds;
    - Severing Axe ticks for 128k damage once every 2 seconds.



    You seem to have overthought what I wrote. There was no philosophical meaning or word play behind the phrase "avoid or remove Severing Axe". I could have used "dodge" or "evade" instead of "avoid" here, but the latter is the most precise term because it is general enough to encompass multiple ways to not get the debuff.
    It's really not though since "avoid" suggests that there is a way you can play to not get this debuff. Where there is not. Words mean something. Say what you really mean: Some classes can immunity this debuff. Which is totally different to what you're saying.

  16. #16
    i would recommend playing the 'harder' affixes too. personally i think last week was quite easy. resto druids dont notice much of quaking for example

    learn all affixes and dont become a one trick pony
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    It's really not though since "avoid" suggests that there is a way you can play to not get this debuff. Where there is not. Words mean something. Say what you really mean: Some classes can immunity this debuff. Which is totally different to what you're saying.
    I have never heard anyone call Blade Dance, Evasion or Riposte an immunity. Those abilities are not immunities.

    I listed several abilities that allow you to counter the Severing Axe in the very next sentence after saying the debuff can be avoided. It is very clear I'm not speaking about it being "avoidable damage" in the most general sense. I don't even understand how someone can misinterpret it unless they are reading only every second line of what I wrote.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    I have never heard anyone call Blade Dance, Evasion or Riposte an immunity. Those abilities are not immunities.
    They make you immune to physical attacks so yeah they are really.

  19. #19
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    Bursting quaking is hell, forti teeming explo is also hell, but a different kind. Meanwhile raging volcanic skittish is literally faceroll. Blizzard fails hard tuning affixes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    Tell me what part of the 3rd KR boss you find dangerous and unavoidable if the 1st boss is easy for you?
    Severing axe is applied in a phase that is extremely movement intensive, therefore healing is greatly hindered. That's why it's a fucking pain in the ass.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    They make you immune to physical attacks so yeah they are really.
    Uh, what?

    Evasion makes you dodge attacks, Riposte makes you parry attacks, and Blade Dance has literally no damage reduction or immunity component at all - it has what amounts to one "invincibility frame" but there is no way that Blade Dance is an "immunity" in the context of this games actual immunities - Ice Block, Divine Shield, and Aspect of The Turtle. What a weird fucking hill to choose to die on.

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