Queen Azshara vs Lich king

[MatadorMedia]

As far as power goes, the Burning Crusade is probably something like: Sargeras > Kil'jaeden / Archimonde > Gul'dan > Lich King > The Rest. Meanwhile the Black Empire is more like: N'zoth > Xal'atath > Azshara > Yogg > C'thun > The Rest. So in that setup, Azshara is essentially on par with Gul'dan. She would defeat the Lich King.

[FuxieDK]

Ulduar is basically the only cool part of the whole xpac.
Too easy heroics, remade naxx, crappy tend raid, wintergraps,... Sorry but no - looking from vanilla to BFA - wotlk is still the worst xpac combined with wod.

I don't care if you are male or female: MARRY ME, PLEASE!!!

P.s. Heirlooms are also pretty cool..

[nyc81991]

Ulduar is basically the only cool part of the whole xpac.
Too easy heroics, remade naxx, crappy tend raid, wintergraps,... Sorry but no - looking from vanilla to BFA - wotlk is still the worst xpac combined with wod.
And on topic: if Azshara can compete with kiljaeden how could arthas compete with Azshara?

Well you can have your opinion but you are in the extreme minority. There's a reason WoW was at it's peak popularity in Wotlk.

[Pheraz]

Well you can have your opinion but you are in the extreme minority. There's a reason WoW was at it's peak popularity in Wotlk.

Yes the reason was that the whole thing snowballed/skyrocketed/chain reacted from vanilla until late BC and everyone and his mom (literally) wanted to play world of Warcraft. Then the next xpac came and everyone and his mom bought wotlk. And as far as I remember, after the initial mega buyout the subscriptions started to decline for the first time, or am I wrong?

I don't care if you are male or female: MARRY ME, PLEASE!!!

P.s. Heirlooms are also pretty cool..

Lol! xD

[Trikszter]

As death knights we have some spells to defend ourselfs from magic. Our armors made from saronite which gives us more resiliance against magic. The LK should have superior spells compared to the dk anti magic things since he gave us powers on the first hand. Then again, The lich king killed the 25 strongest champion on azeroth then freezed Tirion. He only lost after he let his guard down to ashbringer.

Azshara is one of the most powerful being who ever existed on azeroth, and now she is empowered by N'zoth. I can see this battle goes either way, but experience is on Azshara's side.

Then again In a battle Lei Shen could defeat Arthas on 1v1 , but the Scourge would defeat the Thunder King's army.

[avitush]

Hard to say. There was the whole thing in War of the Ancients where Mannoroth tried to get smart with Azshara (thinking her to be some weak/frail night elf) and got put in his place by her, then the "he realized that only Kil'jaeden could've matched her" line. But this was 10,000 years ago, and Azshara wasn't empowered by an Old God at the time.

I'm not sure there are any lore example that describe how Kil'jaeden would stack up against full power Lich King. LK is obviously no longer under KJ's control at that point, but I wonder how a 1v1 between those two would go?

[Ramz]

The Lich King is not weaker than Lei Shen expansion order does not determine power of the big bad. Arthas killed us all and was only defeated by a literal act of god. Kil'jaeden feared his power which is why he ordered Illidan to destroy him and he was way more powerful than Mannaroth.


Lei Shen was powerful but he struggled to defeat a wild god for days hes not that powerful.

Afrasiabi said that Thunder King would easily beat up Lich King 1vs1 but Scourge would destroy his mogu army.

[nyc81991]

Yes the reason was that the whole thing snowballed/skyrocketed/chain reacted from vanilla until late BC and everyone and his mom (literally) wanted to play world of Warcraft. Then the next xpac came and everyone and his mom bought wotlk. And as far as I remember, after the initial mega buyout the subscriptions started to decline for the first time, or am I wrong?

Nope, subs didn't start to decline until after Cata came out.

[Magical Mudcrab]

The lich king is ofc much weaker than Azshara

Based on? The only things we know about Azshara is that:
1) She is stronger than Mannoroth, but weaker than Archimonde or Kil'jaeden
2) She is weak to water-type pokemon

It's the silliest thing in WoW lore. People have been hyping Azshara for literally 10 years, and her accomplishments can be counted on one hand.

[Beerbill Society]

Tough one, but I still go for LK, Azshara is incredibly powerful but I doubt her magic alone would stop him.

We are talking about the guy who shit stomped Dalaran and Quel'thalas the two most powerful magic kingdoms to ever exist (second only to Disney).

He made Jaina run like a little girl in halls of reflection, sure she wasn't that powerful but still is a pretty good comparison when it comes to magi.

And let's face it, people love to bring up the whole Lei Sheng thing but he was like a God and in a one on one fight.

The Lich King had the strongest army in Azeroth and if he stays in Icecrown has the terrain advantage, the Scourge has destroyed civilizations (the Nerubian) much more powerful than the Naga.

He is a strategist, proved to be better than the most powerful factions of Azeroth together, and the only item that could defeat him is now gone, basically with the whole "there must always be a Lich King" deal, even if he is defeated the Armageddon clock goes to zero.

[darkoms]

Tough one, but I still go for LK, Azshara is incredibly powerful but I doubt her magic alone would stop him.

We are talking about the guy who shit stomped Dalaran and Quel'thalas the two most powerful magic kingdoms to ever exist (second only to Disney).

He made Jaina run like a little girl in halls of reflection, sure she wasn't that powerful but still is a pretty good comparison when it comes to magi.

And let's face it, people love to bring up the whole Lei Sheng thing but he was like a God and in a one on one fight.

The Lich King had the strongest army in Azeroth and if he stays in Icecrown has the terrain advantage, the Scourge has destroyed civilizations (the Nerubian) much more powerful than the Naga.

He is a strategist, proved to be better than the most powerful factions of Azeroth together, and the only item that could defeat him is now gone, basically with the whole "there must always be a Lich King" deal, even if he is defeated the Armageddon clock goes to zero.

How did you determine that nerubians who renounced the Old Gods are more powerful than the nagas with the support of N'zot?
His army was not so strong, in the Chronicles (did anyone in this forum forum read it?) it was explicitly stated that he could not seize Azeroth by force and that the Horde and Alliance could have killed him in the Battle of the Wrathgate
People have a habit of overestimating the power of the Lich King

[Beerbill Society]

How did you determine that nerubians who renounced the Old Gods are more powerful than the nagas with the support of N'zot?
His army was not so strong, in the Chronicles (did anyone in this forum forum read it?) it was explicitly stated that he could not seize Azeroth by force and that the Horde and Alliance could have killed him in the Battle of the Wrathgate
People have a habit of overestimating the power of the Lich King

I don't really recall where, but I've read Nerubians (probably the NPCs that gave you quests for the dungeons) had one of the hugest empires in Azeroth and for the Scourge to destroy and consume it it's a pretty good indicator. I don't see how this being empower by a old God be a thing, to this day everyone that was just ate dirt like the others who don't *cough* Deathwing *cough* Qiraj *cough* Klaxxi

And even in game it was clear, like I said he is an strategist, his whole plan was to draw Azeroth most powerful factions to Northrend to consume and empower from their lost.

Wrathgate was completely stupid, he had not reason whatsoever to go there and he pretty much ate the horde commander ass and would to the same to Bolvar.

I don't treat the Lich King like a God, he is a really powerful death knight with the most powerful and loyal army ever, and judging by the Scourge feats of strength (which are many) I really doubt he could lose.

You are the OP, if you didn't believe LK to be up to pair with Azshara why did you proposed this discussion in the first place?

[Eto Demerzel]

I'd go for Lich King by far.

Lich King 1 on 1 has no major strength aside from the fact that he can absorb souls into the Frostmourne (which he doesnt have anymore but may have the strength to build, since in Legion he helps you build the two runeblades) while Azshara itself has never been shown to have any major strength aside from an EXTREMELY vast magic power.

Both are extreme intelligent, both have almost endless armies, while Azshara has an old god patron which may cause her to become and even greater threat... Lich King has command of the undead and can raise almost everything to become part of his army, if there was an open war between the Scourge and Azshara's Empire... every single being killed by the Scourge could potentially be raised to fight against Azshara so eventually he has more odds to win the war.
Also the Lich King and The Scourge alredy have experience dealing with Nagas (Vashj nagas which helped Illidan on the Icecrown battle in the Frozen Throne), so even if there are no currently rised Nagas... potentially he might have experimented with them without us knowing it (like he did with other fallen people of that battle like the San'layn).

On Azshara's behalf... i must say that while the Nagas are probably the biggest living army in the world (speculation), they are not that impressive... in Cataclysm you can see how she requires the help of the void minions to take control of that Vashj'ir zone from the Kvaldir, which technically speaking, are the weakest vrykul-kind in the world.
Nonetheless... she herself had enough power for Mannoroth to think only Archimonde and Sargeras could beat her (which technically speaking means she is stronger than Kil'Jaeden), im not sure if undeads could harm her... but eventually Lich King might be able to just raise the whole both armies combined (Scourge + Naga people) against herself and she might end up losing as the original Ashbringer wielder did... just out of strength.

[TigTone]

One vs One I say Azshara. If the fight takes near the sea she will win hands down. I’m talking about Azshara now not the old version of her.

Army vs army lich king wins; since more souls give him more power.

[Rafoel]

How did you determine that nerubians who renounced the Old Gods are more powerful than the nagas with the support of N'zot?
His army was not so strong, in the Chronicles (did anyone in this forum forum read it?) it was explicitly stated that he could not seize Azeroth by force and that the Horde and Alliance could have killed him in the Battle of the Wrathgate
People have a habit of overestimating the power of the Lich King

On the contrary, people keep UNDERESTIMATING his power. On this forum I encountered opinions how he was the least dangerous (!) endboss of WotLK, below Yogg and Malygos. People seriously arguing that Alexstrasza could fly any moment to ICC and kill him, but just didnt bother because he was so insignificant, or considering Illidan to be much more powerful fighter (and he only lost the duel because he didnt expect Arthas to actually be able to hurt him omegalul).

As for Chronicle, I read it and don't recall anything similar to be stated there.

Rechecking right now, and:

1) Chronicle merely states that Lich King decided conquering the world through sheer force was not a good plan, as others have tried it and failed - the best course of action was to enslave world's greatest heroes so that the rest will crumble in attrition. Thats all there is in Chronicle about that. On the other hand, in-game Scourge is stated to be so powerful that it would roll over the living if left uncontrolled - thats the reason for Bolvar to become another Lich King.

2) As for Wrathgate, well... there is a single sentence "If the Battle of the Wrath Gate had reached its conclusion, it might have spelled the end of the Lich King". Honestly, thats pure speculation. What's more, inconsistent with facts we know. There were 9000 soldiers of alliance and horde in that battle. There were standing at the gates of ICC. Even if outside force was defeated, Lich King had powerful entities inside that could aid him, especially undead dragons and giants (that didnt participate in battle) and of course Sindragosa. And finally, LK himself. With single blow he killed Dranosh. With single spell he killed the entire raid force in ICC. The only way they could possible defeat him is to overwhelm him with numbers. Or could they? Would the souls of ordinary soldiers be powerful enough to escape Frostmourne's grip, like players did in ICC (that part is canon, its mentioned in Chronicle).

[darkoms]

People really overestimate the Scourge and its threat to Azeroth very, very much. Arthas just attacked at the right moment. No one from the powerful of the world considered the Lich King such an important threat to be distracted from other matters. In fact, the red, green, and bronze teamed up to stop the blue dragons, and not undead (although there are a couple of dragon quests in the game just to oppose the Scourge), and the wild gods did not have to be resurrected urgently to stop the terrible Lich King, as in Cataclysm, because the Nightmare was much more dangerous than the Scourge. The Alliance and the Horde are weakened by the war in Outland, the red dragons (and some others) fight the blue, the greens along with the wild gods, the ancients and Malfurion fight the Nightmare, the bronze fight the infinity dragons, the titan-forged and Keepers subdued by Yogg-Saron. In fact, even when the Lich King resurrected Galacrond, Alexstrasza was worried about mortals and said that if Galacrond was resurrected, mortals would have problems. She felt no threat to herself personally and decided to continue to fight Malygos. The Chronicles said that the defeat of Kel'thuzad greatly interfered with the strategy of the Lich King, but fortunately the Alliance and Horde were distracted by Malygos. Then he was nearly killed at the Wrath Gates, but the Legion (well, the servants of the Legion) and the Alliance and Horde saved him and had to be distracted by stopping Varimathras, whose activities Sargeras personally monitored (maybe he wanted to make a new invasion of Azeroth?) and then the Alliance and the Horde went to fight with Yogg-Saron. Even with all these parallel wars, the Alliance and the Horde defeated the Scourge (even if the Lich King allowed it, but if he could destroy the weakened Alliance and the Horde, he would have done it. Conclusion? Even after all these wars, the Scourge could not to defeat the Alliance and the Horde). Ha, to some extent he even helped Azeroth, because he lured the Alliance and Ordu to Northrend, where they defeated the Old God, who otherwise could have been hiding even longer. Ironically, during the Wrath of the Lich King, the Lich King and his Scourge were the smallest threats to the world.

[Eucep]

Azshara's power is up to speculation and she is heavily overrated.

Lich King wins this until Azshara gets some feats.

Look at the warbringer cinematic and that she alone held back all that water with her magic. Literally speaking about millions of kg/pounds of force she was holding back. And that was not with a ritual or something she prepared, that was just reactionary magic power. I would call that an impressive feat.

[Eto Demerzel]

Look at the warbringer cinematic and that she alone held back all that water with her magic. Literally speaking about millions of kg/pounds of force she was holding back. And that was not with a ritual or something she prepared, that was just reactionary magic power. I would call that an impressive feat.

She was feeding herself over the Well of Eternity for a long time, since that was the only way to open a portal strong enough to let Sargeras come... im willing to be most of her original magical power comes from there.

As far as we know, Azshara is some sort of Cleopatra figure, she makes every man surrounding her love her and makes them to be willing to commit suicide for her... she has the potential strength to beat Mannoroth as he feels... yet she has never shown her power, does she even know how to wield it? Holding a water tidal sure its quite impressive, but what aside from that? We have seen Ner'zhul destroying a whole world in a ritual to open a portal or darken a naaru which is actually an impressive feat, and on the other hand we have seen AU-Velen sacrifice all his strength to purify a corrupted Naaru by himself alone.

If Azshara was THAT powerful on her own... why didnt she open the portal to Sargeras by herself? Why didnt she release N'Zoth by herself? She relies on objects like her scepter, the Tidestone of Golganesh and etc to channel her power which means she might be a huge magic vessel... but she has no way to use that strength on her own.

[Eucep]

Ner'zhul needed objects of power too like the book of Medivh.
The dark star already was corrupted, he just 'guided' it.

Illidan knew her appearance alone was a mass enchantment fooling pretty much her entire race.
Mannoroth has been in the presence of Sargeras and the other high ups of the legion most likely, he will know their power aura's well.
Velen, fairly powerfull, also millenia old devotee to the light, was himself supposedly an equal to Kil'jaeden and Archimonde in power. The purifying had him sacrifice himself.

If Sargeras is that powerfull, why didn't he open up the portal to Azeroth? We know he could not because the distance was to vast and his own existance required something incredibly strong and stable to pass through.
Why is she not more powerfull then the Titan's at their prime who bound the Old Gods? I don't think it's even as simple as that. The events look like there are puzzle pieces falling into place, most items not even being more then foci, the main item being us using the blood of Azeroth itself for those titan chains to be broken.

[Eazy]

The Lich King is not weaker than Lei Shen expansion order does not determine power of the big bad.

Of course(for example - Garrosh vs Deathwing), but Blizzard already confirmed that Lei Shen was actually stronger.