[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Puupi]

She's dead as fuck. Even gets risen by the Night King.

I bet everyone cheered when the troll smacked her off the screen.

[Varodoc]

The people who think that after the NK's death the show will return to S1-S3 political intrigue are delusional. It will just be another Good vs. Evil battle, only with Cersei instead of the Night King and some stupid BS like Tyrion and Varys going rogue to prolongue a conflict that could end in 15 minutes with Daenerys burning the Red Keep. Gone are the days of Tywin, Littlefinger, Olenna, Old Tyrion, etc. brooding and actually putting up a fascinating political drama.

[Hexian]

I was disappointed w/ the episode. Too much plot armour, stupid tactics, sloppy writing. Plus you could barely see half the time.

That was on purpose, having clear visibility would have given a huge advantage to the dragons. They could have just mowed down everything.

Also, Dothraki...lol. Did they just get Boba Fetted?

[Fluffernut]

But what “game” aspect? All the political intrigue and plotting is gone. It’s really just Cersei vs every other person in Westeros at this point.

I disagree. There is so much left open and backstabbing left to do. I truly don't think that after all she has been through that Sansa will just meekly "bend the knee" now that the battle is over. Now that Dany and Jon's relationship, both romantic and familial, is out in the proverbial open - will he stay loyal? Tyrion has always loved his family - will he help to dethrone his sister or will he choose family over Dany? I truly do not think that the final three episodes will just be "Winterfell vs Cersei".

[Puupi]

What if Cersei wins....?

[TJ]

Ye I see were being accused of being edgelords for at least hoping ice and fire sticks to it's principles and honours the world it spent so much time crafting which is why it was popular in the first place. I don't mind the forces of "good" ultimately winning, I don't mind Arya being the killer. What I do mind is all the set up that there would be repercussions for ignoring the real danger and bickering for the throne resulting in ah actually don't worry Arya will stab him GG and high five.

Don't like something = Edgelord
Like something = Sheep

Basic premise of idiots.

[Independent voter]

I dont think she did, but she went out like a total badass.

I chuckled when the giant smacked her.

I got some "what the hell is wrong with you" looks.

[Voidwielder]

Yeah, well - the point being that of the writing workload of that book, GRRM only did 30%. So about 100 pages, minus the pictures.

And it worth it, those few hundreds of pages did everything that was required. Besides, he explicitly said that he had to withhold many things as not to spoil/hint too much for future plot lines. Far too often other fantasy authors overdetalize their world, diminishing it's beauty and mystery.

I especially loved the Vale chapter, it felt like reading a chronicles of Turkish conquest of Anatolia or something, bitter-sweet stuff.

[Wilian]

HAHAHAHAHA

Eight seasons

Eight seasons of they are coming

And this is the end result

My fucking sides I thought we'd not dip down to Dorne levels of terrible but here we are. My fucking sides. Jesus fucking Christ. Holy Lord and Mother Mary.

SWOOOOSH ARYA SHAKAKAAAA

Oh my fucking god. I can't figure out almoust single bit that wasn't fucking cringe in this episode. Fucking 8 seasons for this.

[MakeMeLaugh]

SWOOOOSH ARYA SHAKAKAAAA

Oh my fucking god. I can't figure out almoust single bit that wasn't fucking cringe in this episode. Fucking 8 seasons for this.

8 seasons and it ended with a meme.

[Najnaj]

I was disappointed w/ the episode. Too much plot armour, stupid tactics, sloppy writing. Plus you could barely see half the time.

Very much this! Also the obligatory irrelevant huge battle scene ending where something is eternally laid to rest in a surprise move that came out of the blue. LoTR when Gandalf shows up, Harry Potter (the movie, not the book) which ends with a "ops, the wand back fired".

What the hell was the point of 99% of content in the previous 7 seasons if this is how this one ended?

It is the WoW equivalent of having the Arthas story line end with him going down from the frozen throne to speak with Tirion only to trip and break his neck on the way down.

[Asaliah]

Can't wait to read the book version in 2056 written by GRRM's gran-granson

[Khaza-R]

I disagree. There is so much left open and backstabbing left to do. I truly don't think that after all she has been through that Sansa will just meekly "bend the knee" now that the battle is over. Now that Dany and Jon's relationship, both romantic and familial, is out in the proverbial open - will he stay loyal? Tyrion has always loved his family - will he help to dethrone his sister or will he choose family over Dany? I truly do not think that the final three episodes will just be "Winterfell vs Cersei".

I doubt any of that will happen. Sansa could protest all she likes but she’s completely powerless at this point. I doubt there’s many Northerners left given even the women and children get slaughtered in the crypts. And Tyrion will never side with Cersei. Nor would ally herself with him. There’s really no more political twists.

[Thrif]

Actually I'd say it's far closer to the truth than anything in your response. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn't point to Ned's execution (after seemingly securing a way out of it by Sansa), or the Red Wedding (which if you're not a book reader, as many people aren't, was a totally unexpected affair at least at the moment it happened). Both of these scenes have kind of sat over the entire series as to how the show will tend to lead you one way (like most people assuming it would be Jon to face down the NK) and then doing another.

The things you are quoting aren't "quick unexpected things," they are derived from actual history and a showcase of what happens to characters who doesn't have plot armor because they happened to be important.

They arent subverting expectations as much as subverting shitty story telling tropes. While this last episode is just filled to the brim with said shitty tropes the show once got famous for avoiding.

[Mavick]

The things you are quoting aren't "quick unexpected things," they are derived from actual history and a showcase of what happens to characters who doesn't have plot armor because they happened to be important.

They arent subverting expectations as much as subverting shitty story telling tropes. While this last episode is just filled to the brim with said shitty tropes the show once got famous for avoiding.

Anybody who had not read the books would tell you that what happened in those episodes was not expected, so your reasoning on that just really doesn't hold up without looking back on it from today's perspective. Or without foreknowledge from having read the books.

[MrTharne]

She literally ran down the same aisle that the WWs made for Night King to walk towards Bran.

The dead made an opening for the WWs and the NK to come into their circle, closing it.
The NK was in front of all the other WWs, they didn't make an opening for him.
She literally had to hit them to get past...

[Thekri]

Very much this! Also the obligatory irrelevant huge battle scene ending where something is eternally laid to rest in a surprise move that came out of the blue. LoTR when Gandalf shows up, Harry Potter (the movie, not the book) which ends with a "ops, the wand back fired".

What the hell was the point of 99% of content in the previous 7 seasons if this is how this one ended?

It is the WoW equivalent of having the Arthas story line end with him going down from the frozen throne to speak with Tirion only to trip and break his neck on the way down.

No, it is the equivalent of having Arthas take zero damage throughout the entire raid fight, then Brann Bronzebeard ganks him out of nowhere in a cutscene. I mean sure, Brann is cool character, and fairly competent, but why would he appear out of nowhere to gank the Lich King? And sure, it might be a cool scene, but it doesn't fit the story at all, and it makes the whole plot before it seem pretty useless.

[Isilrien]

Yes she has green eyes. She's next for plot-armor-goddess Arya.

Thanks. I wasn't sure since Lena Headey has blue eyes.

[Wilian]

Anybody who had not read the books would tell you that what happened in those episodes was not expected, so your reasoning on that just really doesn't hold up without looking back on it from today's perspective. Or without foreknowledge from having read the books.

There are two ways to subvert expectations, good, where the matter while unexpected makes perfect internal sense and in larger scope is supported by the overarching narrative, structure and story as well as the established rules within the setting, and bad, where you subvert expectations just because while paying little mind to the established ruleset of the setting and/or narrative

Ned losing his head while unexpected for the watcher/reader made perfect sense internally with the established narrative and the characters.

SWOOOOSH ARYA didn't.

[Isilrien]

You forgot the most important character RIP Ghost.
Also, RIP Rhaegal.

Perhaps this was already pointed out to you, but in case it wasn't (I haven't made it through all the pages of comments yet): Both are alive. In the episode 4 preview, Rhaegal appears twice (around 22 seconds in) and Ghost once (18 seconds in, standing among the people).