[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Tekkommo]

Just finished my 2nd watch.

From a battle perspective and visuals it was amazing (not tactically).

Plot armour however, is annoying and I expected more main character deaths. I did like how Jorah and Theon went out though (oh shit and Beric, was a surprise to find out why he'd been brought back and how he also resembled a cross at one point). Sam should have died about 10 times, but he probably has the most plot armour, they should have just put him hiding in the crypts.

Crypts was also disappointing, best part was when Missandei said you'd all be dead without the Dragon Queen. Again annoying plot armour when the dead were risen down there.

I don't mind Arya killing the NK, it was surprising. If she also gets the kill on Cersei I'll probably be slightly pissed (brown eyes, green eyes...).

Still happy with it and I'd give it a 9/10, but I can understand the complaints made. I was still thoroughly entertained.

[ParanoiD84]

Wasted fucking cavalry charge too, should have used them in reserve for some hit and run and flanking action but nah lets charge right into darkness with no infantry support.

[jakeic]

Just remember its called game of thrones not game of night king, he was only there to unite the people nothing else he was never going to kill everyone

The series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire", "A Game of Thrones" was simply the first book in that series, it was latter changed to "Game of Thrones" for the TV show.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, that minor quibble aside, I mostly dislike the narrative implications. First, that the Night King wasn't killed by someone who knew how to fight the Wights, but by the superninja who never had any involvement in the beyond-the-wall plot at all, with no help from anyone who does such as Jon, Sam or even Melissandre herself who only says some encouraging words.

Arya doesn't know what a white walker looks like, let alone that they have blue eyes or who the Night King is or that he has an Achilles heel that was conveniently unarmored.

[Faltemer]

Play nice people. If you can't contribute to the discussion without insulting other posters please refrain yourself from the conversation.

[Puupi]

Why are you people arguing about a fantasy show and its lore?

That's just something I can never wrap my head around with people...

Anything else completely hypothetical and imaginary you want to throw a hot debate about?

Anyhow; what exactly happened with the dragons in the end, I sort of missed what happened. Did the dragon Jon was flying die or turn into an ice dragon as well? Because as I understood, they ripped the first ice dragon to pieces together in the sky, yet an ice dragon was breathing at Jon in the end again.

[Malikath]

You keep regurgitating this “watch the show” line when what you’re describing was obviously not in the show. That’s why there’s so much contention surrounding it. You’re plugging in holes with your own projected ideas of what she’s capable of doing and then expecting everyone to jump to the same conclusions. Stop. It.

dude, whats funny is that he can't even bring up shit to prove his "points" "watts da sho" is all he's got as a basis for his long-winded diatribes yet refuses to actually show anything to prove his claims.
because it doesn't exist outside of his head.

[Priestiality]

Why are you people arguing about a fantasy show and its lore?

That's just something I can never wrap my head around with people...

Anything else completely hypothetical and imaginary you want to throw a hot debate about?

Anyhow; what exactly happened with the dragons in the end, I sort of missed what happened. Did the dragon Jon was flying die or turn into an ice dragon as well? Because as I understood, they ripped the first ice dragon to pieces together in the sky, yet an ice dragon was breathing at Jon in the end again.

They both show up in next week's trailer so probably injured but mostly ok.

[Puupi]

They both show up in next week's trailer so probably injured but mostly ok.

So it was the same ice dragon and it didn't die in the fight and just came back later, okay.

[NihilSustinet]

Whoever drew up the battle plan for the defense of winterfell was a fucking idiot. they deserved to lose that battle, the only reason they won is Arya rolled a 20 for her stealth check and then sneak attack crit the night king with dragonglass.

[Priestiality]

So it was the same ice dragon and it didn't die in the fight and just came back later, okay.

The one Jon stares down? Yeah that's Viserion trying to protect the archway to the Godswood.

Edit: Also I just rewatched the cavalry charge. They don't actually show anyone giving the order. They start ululating (that YAYAYAYAYAYA thing they do) while Mel and Arya are having their little stare down then they cut to them starting the charge. Maybe it was ordered but at this point it seems just as likely they made the decision on their own as they've never been shown to take orders from anyone but Dany.

[Malka]

I would not be surprised if the final book will be quite different from the show. According to the prophecies, the prince that was promised "would unite the people" against "the Other." So, Arya's actions don't necessarily undermine it. Bran didn't contribute much... his Warg powers went to waste.

[Sanguinerd]

Anyhow; what exactly happened with the dragons in the end, I sort of missed what happened. Did the dragon Jon was flying die or turn into an ice dragon as well? Because as I understood, they ripped the first ice dragon to pieces together in the sky, yet an ice dragon was breathing at Jon in the end again.

Rhaegal got wounded in the fight with undead Viserion but he's still alive and seen in the preview for next episode. (Drogon was seen again later in the same ep)

Viserion got half of his face removed in the fight but it was him who was defending the entrance to the Godswood.

[Ihavewaffles]

The dothraki should have employd nomad combat of hit and run, the scourge cannot catch up with them, the scourge has almost no ranged weapons, which is why you would use the dothraki to run around the scourge picking them off, not directly charge in..

[ParanoiD84]

Whoever drew up the battle plan for the defense of winterfell was a fucking idiot. they deserved to lose that battle, the only reason they won is Arya rolled a 20 for her stealth check and then sneack attack crit the night king with dragonglass.

Indeed that must be one of the worst defences ive seen. The wasted cavalry charge was just a huge facepalm. Still a nice episode though.

[Benggaul]

Really?

I just viewed it as an example of what’s wrong with the show’s writing now... the Dothraki charge made no sense at all. The writers afterward said it was basically designed to add a beat to the plot, the hopefulness then defeat and dread. Sure, but it doesn’t make sense.

Opening cavalry charge into infantry is warfare 101. It made perfect sense in terms of battle, especially when you have the best cavalry there is. The problem is that they were facing an enemy they never had before and nothing could really prepare them for it. Lights out.

[IIamaKing]

So you're actually comparing Jaqen H'ghar to Arya now? As if they're supposed to be equal already... She DID NOT finish her training. She had some sure but it's incomplete and shes far from experienced.

Bit like how Luke went to fight Vader before he was ready and got his hand cut off.. except she for some reason(which is none really) is ready and kills everything and everyone in her way.

I'd have no problem with her crossing more people off her list but the NK?! She had nothing to do with his entire damn story..

Im not comparing her no, I saying that there are people who said the Faceless men doing kill like that, they use subterfuge, poison and a knife in the back, which is demonstrably untrue. Also Her Faceless training is not the sum total of her martial training. She was Learning to use a bow back in WF, she was trained by a world class swordsmen for months. We are shown that she, while BLIND was a better martial artist than the Waif, who presumably was a highly skilled combatant.

And at the end of the day, all she really did, was quietly creep into dash range, run and jump, GET CAUGHT and use a move she picked up from "NO ONE", to kill the NK. Nothing magical, nothing otherworldly.

[Malka]

There are some hilarious twitter posts floating around.

https://twitter.com/oluwadiipsy/stat...59721625292801

https://twitter.com/givemesomeguac/s...22309624815616

https://twitter.com/noradominick/sta...75766888665088

[Asphyx22]

Why are you people arguing about a fantasy show and its lore?

That's just something I can never wrap my head around with people...

Anything else completely hypothetical and imaginary you want to throw a hot debate about?

Anyhow; what exactly happened with the dragons in the end, I sort of missed what happened. Did the dragon Jon was flying die or turn into an ice dragon as well? Because as I understood, they ripped the first ice dragon to pieces together in the sky, yet an ice dragon was breathing at Jon in the end again.

The trailer for episode 4 seems to confirm both dragons are alive, but it looked like Raegal was badly hurt. The dragon attacking Jon at the end was the same one. Its face was basically torn in half, but it being undead didn't stop it.

[Skroe]

Phenomenal episode visually and all but WHAT THE FUCK WERE THOSE COMBAT TACTICS???

If you saw the post-show interview, the writers basically dismissed the entire thought of staging this battle realistically. The Dothraki, which Daenerys had been with for 8 seasons were wiped out as a tension-creating tool. Nothing was seemingly thought of in terms of military realism. Everything was about bringing it back to their characters. In fact, the producers seemed bored / dismissive even discussing the big battle. They didn't seem to care for the actual massive battle part of it one bit.

Big mistake. One of the greatest story telling sins is when the story makes the viewer/reader question the protagonists' basic competency. Sometimes, suspension of disbelief is all you need. JRR Tolkien said as much when asked about why Eagles didn't just fly Frodo and the ring to Mount Doom. But here we watched, in slow motion, 100,000 of Daenerys' fighters, the vast majority of her army, get wiped out in about 90 seconds. At the start of the episode. The first thought was "how could they be so stupid". Even casual viewers are saying that. Which illustrates the second sin of the entire episode: the producers underestimated their audience.

The irony of this is that last year, when the Dothraki Horde and Daenerys and her dragons attacked the Lannister Army and Loot Train, historians and military experts wrote how it was basically a visualized thesis on the importance of Air Superiority.

The episode was great, but the dragons should have been doing mid-altitude strafing runs the entire time, with Winterfell protected behind a field of traps and ditches filled with fire and dragon glass, and everyone who can fire a bow doing so, until they run out dragon glass arrows.

But of course, the reason they didn't do that is they needed most of the cast, and the two dragons, to survive the Battle At the End of World in order to fight in what the Producers really care about, which is the fight over the Iron Throne with Cersei.

[Acidz]

To win the Last War they only have to send Arya. How are the Lannister forces supposed to stop her when she can face change and assassinate the most powerful creature the world has ever seen?? Remaining story can be wrapped up in a couple of minutes basically.