[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[uopayroll]

start to finish of the episode, those that died, died from arrogance.

Dothraki the unbeatable horseman charged in.
Unsullied, unstoppable stand in a line spearmen, died doing that
Jon/Danny almost lost more dragons thinking they were unstoppable
Arya ran into a horde of undead, did well for a while, then almost died
Trench with a bit of fire and dragon galls, did nothing when NK sacrificed a bunch to make a bridge over it
NK at the end, slow waltz up to Bran and have all the horde stand in a large circle quite a distance from him, did him in. He even got lured there despite knowing everything fell apart if he died.

Everybody thought they had this fight in the bag, and everybody either died, or realized nothing they took for granted was right.

[Isilrien]

Maybe the wights were just being told to stand there. So the Night King could kill Bran/Three-Eyed Raven. No one told them to move so they did not. They didn't move when Theron went running at the Night King either.

One of them does look to the side at one point, but you're right--he didn't move other than that. Do we know if they have independence, or are they controlled like the wights are?

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Can somebody explain to me why they protect Brann?.
Brann is the worst character of any tv show or movie.
He is emotionless sitting in a chair doing nothing other then poop on the Night King troops with the ravens he controls.

He had the worging ability before the three eyed raven thing and would actually be doing stuff in this battle.
Now he is pointless, his whole trip of becoming the raven was useless.

He is their brother.

[Mavick]

Hey, guess what, that "Now a girl is no one" line and the look Jaqen gave was also shitty writing. S6 is when the shitty writing exploded onto the scene.


Keep in mind, prior to that:

1) Jaqen said, "A girl can be no one, if she so desires." And then gave her a mission to poison an actress (again, without a face, without stealth).
2) Then he said "A girl is given a second chance, she will not be given a third."
3) Then Arya fails to kill the actress - in fact, she outright prevents it.
4) Jaqen gives the waif permission to kill Arya, expressing regret because she had skills.
5) The waif gets the complete drop on her, not by stealth, but by being an old woman, and stabs her repeatedly in the gut (which she shouldn't have survived, but the plot armor was thick around Arya even then).
6) The actress is killed anyways, slowly and painfully, because of Arya's trangression. As the waif said, "The Faceless God is owed a name."
7) Then the waif says, "Now he is owed another name." As an audience, we're supposed to think now that the waif's death paid that debt? The waif made no transgression.
8) Then Arya manages to kill her in the dark with a sword she was told to throw away.
9) Then Jaqen acknowledges the utter emptiness in her by declaring her "no one" (which was shitty writing, to suddenly suggest he was okay with Arya's actions).
10) Then that dumbass smirk when she responds "No, I'm Arya Stark, and I'm going home," even though that runs counter to everything the Faceless Men stand for.

See, those last two points are fan service. The audience wants her to be Arya Stark, not "no one." So the shitty writing allowed her to be Arya Stark with some training, and be a badass, without being a soulless murderer (even though that's what she is supposed to be now).

If you dig deep back enough in this thread, you'll find me bitching about that shitty writing even then. Oh wait, I found it for you: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...4#post40869354

So rather than admit that the show was clearly leading you one way, you'd rather stomp your feet and just declare "shitty writing". Got it.

[Dacien]

I know the whole Arya thing has been beaten to death, but she's been my favorite character since like season 2. I really liked when The Hound (who's a softie underneath) was traveling with her, and I thought they made a good pair. Just all the destruction of everything she knew, all the hard work and suffering and dedication to get where she is in spite of it, it's a great character. And I mean, she's good. Really good. Sneaky and deadly, just cool. Lots of people give Theon a nod for his great arc, and it's due, but my favorite characters have always pretty much been Arya and The Hound. Good-hearted, but tough as nails and good at what they do.

[Nellise]

sorry but no. charging into an enemy that you cannot see, but you know has massive numbers, has a dragon, has giants, and can also resurrect you and bring you to their side. its fucking retarded. like ive mentioned earlier in the thread, they should have been a skirmishing and/or flanking force. an outright charge against that sort of enemy was something jon would know better than, and id assume they would listen when dany told them how to engage.

And also they had something unplanned happen just before they charged in which should have changed their plans. Lighting their swords on fire probably made it so they couldn't see anything more than 2 feet in front of them and most likely got them killed much easier. Kinda like how anybody watching this episode who had any lights on couldn't tell what was going on.

[Dacien]

Hey, guess what, that "Now a girl is no one" line and the look Jaqen gave was also shitty writing. S6 is when the shitty writing exploded onto the scene.


Keep in mind, prior to that:

1) Jaqen said, "A girl can be no one, if she so desires." And then gave her a mission to poison an actress (again, without a face, without stealth).
2) Then he said "A girl is given a second chance, she will not be given a third."
3) Then Arya fails to kill the actress - in fact, she outright prevents it.
4) Jaqen gives the waif permission to kill Arya, expressing regret because she had skills.
5) The waif gets the complete drop on her, not by stealth, but by being an old woman, and stabs her repeatedly in the gut (which she shouldn't have survived, but the plot armor was thick around Arya even then).
6) The actress is killed anyways, slowly and painfully, because of Arya's trangression. As the waif said, "The Faceless God is owed a name."
7) Then the waif says, "Now he is owed another name." As an audience, we're supposed to think now that the waif's death paid that debt? The waif made no transgression.
8) Then Arya manages to kill her in the dark with a sword she was told to throw away.
9) Then Jaqen acknowledges the utter emptiness in her by declaring her "no one" (which was shitty writing, to suddenly suggest he was okay with Arya's actions).
10) Then that dumbass smirk when she responds "No, I'm Arya Stark, and I'm going home," even though that runs counter to everything the Faceless Men stand for.

See, those last two points are fan service. The audience wants her to be Arya Stark, not "no one." So the shitty writing allowed her to be Arya Stark with some training, and be a badass, without being a soulless murderer (even though that's what she is supposed to be now).

One thing I will say is that the whole time she was in the temple of the Many Faced God, I slowly but surely found myself thinking, "Get out of there Arya, you in a cult, girl."

[Kellorion]

I am a bit disappointed that NK and Jon didnt get to have their duel, but the show isnt really built upon 1v1 duels being the end all. Except Red Viper vs the Mountain.

[Mavick]

One thing I will say is that the whole time she was in the temple of the Many Faced God, I slowly but surely found myself thinking, "Get out of there Arya, you in a cult, girl."

Pretty sure literally everyone did, and the result of it is vastly more interesting than whatever strawman-bullshit someone would venture forward as "better writing".

[Dacien]

Pretty sure literally everyone did, and the result of it is vastly more interesting than whatever strawman-bullshit someone would venture forward as "better writing".

I heard about the show again because of the final season premier, so I bought season one to try it out a week or so ago, and am all caught up a week or so later, so I think I have a luckier perspective. I didn't wade through tons of complaining or analysis week after week, year after year, or all the critical butchering, I just watched the show from beginning to season 8, and it's fantastic. The show's amazing. I think every piece of it fits. I have to believe that the dissection the show has been under by it's fans simply must have created some sort of expectation, or perhaps some kind of perspective that I don't have. And I think I'm better off for it. It also helps that I didn't read the books.

[Mavick]

I heard about the show again because of the final season premier, so I bought season one to try it out a week or so ago, and am all caught up a week or so later, so I think I have a luckier perspective. I didn't wade through tons of complaining or analysis week after week, year after year, or all the critical butchering, I just watched the show from beginning to season 8, and it's fantastic. The show's amazing. I think every piece of it fits. I have to believe that the dissection the show has been under by it's fans simply must have created some sort of expectation, or perhaps some kind of perspective that I don't have. And I think I'm better off for it. It also helps that I didn't read the books.

People like you and me (also started watching it late, haven't read the books) most likely represent the majority of the fans of the show. That's why it continues to be popular despite pissing off a group here and there for not meeting their own expectations.

[Dacien]

People like you and me (also started watching it late, haven't read the books) most likely represent the majority of the fans of the show. That's why it continues to be popular despite pissing off a group here and there for not meeting their own expectations.

That was one of the coolest scenes I've ever seen when she leapt out and snuck the blade low and stabbed it in. And I cannot fathom that people are grumbling about it! I guess people are just different, and have their own views, but I've been trying to piece it together since. Trying to piece together how everyone isn't cheering such a glorious and satisfying apogee in the Arya arc.

[Shadowferal]

Seems like most here are criticizing the main battle. Which should have had the key strategy of "no one dies."

[Ihavewaffles]

If Arya kills Cersei this is gonna be officially the biggest joke ever.

I think the mountain will kill Cersei.

[ohiostate124]

Man, rewatching it really highlights how bad the writing is. Fake out deaths for literally every character including the dragons. This isn’t GoT anymore.

[sarahtasher]

Great episode, I actually tried to change my TV settings to see something...

[enigma77]

Great episode, I actually tried to change my TV settings to see something...

Yeah the dark was bad enough, but the snow storm on top of it.. Jeez.

[Jayma]

The writing was terrible.

I'm just dumbfounded with how little depth Bran & the NK were given after so much buildup.

[RobertoCarlos]

Arya used shadowstrike

[MrLachyG]

The writing was terrible.

I'm just dumbfounded with how little depth Bran & the NK were given after so much buildup.

what exactly were you after? I mean we knew a lot of stuff about the NK - we knew how he was made, we got a bit of his backstory from Bran's visions and the Children of the Forest. I imagine we might still get a bit more next episode but yeah we knew all we needed to about the NK

[Jayma]

what exactly were you after? I mean we knew a lot of stuff about the NK - we knew how he was made, we got a bit of his backstory from Bran's visions and the Children of the Forest. I imagine we might still get a bit more next episode but yeah we knew all we needed to about the NK

Look at the thought and detail given to Bran & Hodor's death. The NK marking Bran while he's warging.

Now tell me Bran flying around for an hour as a raven ending in some pointless staring contest is good writing.