Incels, and what social isolation does to the mind

[Yriel]

How can you use "Community" and "total social isolation" in one sentence? That makes no sense.

[Freighter]

Not sure I agree. A great personality can make even someone like Danny Devito attractive.

Definitely not. Maybe make a good friend but not someone you'd want to be in a relationship with.

[Deathknightish]

How can you use "Community" and "total social isolation" in one sentence? That makes no sense.

An online community does not compensate social isolation at all. like I wrote in the OP I played WoW. I was part of a guild, but that still didn't make me feel any less lonely and isolated.

[Doctor Amadeus]

So I think you're making a lot of assumptions about what an incel is, and maybe am I. But I'd argue, based on the self professed incels ive seen, is it comes out of a chronic rejection based on personality and looks, and these personalities are primarily formed in childhood when sexuality is a non issue. Incelism is a reaction to the rejection that occurs when these 'wierd' individuals enter adult society and realize they aren't accepted for who they are.

No I am not making a lot of assumptions, I don't know ANY, and I mean Any guys in high school who weren't socially awkward or turned down a lot even if they tried. I have no shame I got fucking turned down a lot I am not gifted with good looks, I got the "I have a boyfriend" to fucking "No" but guess what so did a lot of people.

I've been friend zoned, there is literally no emotional hurdle I hadn't experienced and I am fucking ugly, not gifted with looks. However I got the fuck over it, averages, eventually you build confidence, and you even realize you know what, everyone you want, who doesn't want you isn't always worth it.

So no I don't buy the it's people not accepted for who they are, it's not being accepted for being an abusive asshole by those who have options and don't have low self esteem. Which are exactly the kinds of women cry their isn't enough of. Unless their some fucking loser who thinks they are a player because they have to get women drunk to fuck them.

Seriously this shit isn't complicated and it's not just people with autism, I also understand what Autism is and that is an unfair label for someone who just chooses to be an abusive toxic asshole.

[Irian]

I think a lot of it has to do with isolation combined with a feeling of victimhood that combines to a level where you get people who are actively hostile to the world, and see it as almost villainous.

What's funny is that in the strictest sense, sadly, they're not exactly wrong. They're wrong about the way their perspective has tinted the world, but they're not wrong that society and the world as a whole is an unfriendly place. But those of us who seem to have it "good" are people who kept trudging along, and kept enduring despite that. It's a lack of determination and willingness to actually understand what you want.

I don't think a lot of incels really want a woman as badly as they say. They want companionship, and and level of intimate and personal companionship. They want to be accepted and they feel like the world won't ever do that. Already coming to that conclusion, they've found the answer themselves, and would refuse to hear any differently: "Nobody wants me, and I'm alone because of society, not my own problems."

To that degree it's funny because I have a ton of friends who are female "incels" that are simply not considered that. It's the same mindset; "I can't find happiness because society doesn't want me to!" And what they all need to learn is, yeah, society is going to tell us to not be ourselves. It's going to tell us that some people aren't born in the same positive world as others. And it's going to take no pity and even hold contempt for those who lie down and accept failure. The world isn't nice, and it's not soft, and it's going to kick everyone on their ass once or twice. You have to get back up and keep trying anyway. If any one of them redirected that hatred of society and their weird fixation on women accepting them into a desire to beat those expectations, every single one of them would get exactly what they wanted.

[Super Kami Dende]

Definitely not. Maybe make a good friend but not someone you'd want to be in a relationship with.

He was married to Rita Perlman. So..?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Who would run first I think. It's like an Unstoppable Smell meeting an Immovable lardass.

You lock them in a room with the movie the NoteBook, Rambo, and a Barry White Album and you let nature take it's coarse one way or another. Called get the fuck over it and join the human race therapy.

[Freighter]

He was married to Rita Perlman. So..?

Ok? Good for him. It's not someone I'd ever be intimate with because I'd feel disgusted by it.

[Helgrimm]

No I am not making a lot of assumptions, I don't know ANY, and I mean Any guys in high school who weren't socially awkward or turned down a lot even if they tried. I have no shame I got fucking turned down a lot I am not gifted with good looks, I got the "I have a boyfriend" to fucking "No" but guess what so did a lot of people.

I've been friend zoned, there is literally no emotional hurdle I hadn't experienced and I am fucking ugly, not gifted with looks. However I got the fuck over it, averages, eventually you build confidence, and you even realize you know what, everyone you want, who doesn't want you isn't always worth it.

So no I don't buy the it's people not accepted for who they are, it's not being accepted for being an abusive asshole by those who have options and don't have low self esteem. Which are exactly the kinds of women cry their isn't enough of. Unless their some fucking loser who thinks they are a player because they have to get women drunk to fuck them.

Seriously this shit isn't complicated and it's not just people with autism, I also understand what Autism is and that is an unfair label for someone who just chooses to be an abusive toxic asshole.

Maybe people aren't as strong as you? Rejection can leave a lasting mark. Sure, some incels might be that alt-right (women are subservient to men) crowd, but maybe your experience is just one positive of many negatives. There were many individuals in my high school who bore the worst of rejection and insults, for being ugly and liking dungeons and dragons, and I wouldn't be surprised if they hated women because of it. People can be cruel. I'm concerned that you're giving a blind eye to the 'incels' who are psychologically damaged and need help.

[Deathknightish]

No I am not making a lot of assumptions, I don't know ANY, and I mean Any guys in high school who weren't socially awkward or turned down a lot even if they tried. I have no shame I got fucking turned down a lot I am not gifted with good looks, I got the "I have a boyfriend" to fucking "No" but guess what so did a lot of people.

I've been friend zoned, there is literally no emotional hurdle I hadn't experienced and I am fucking ugly, not gifted with looks. However I got the fuck over it, averages, eventually you build confidence, and you even realize you know what, everyone you want, who doesn't want you isn't always worth it.

So no I don't buy the it's people not accepted for who they are, it's not being accepted for being an abusive asshole by those who have options and don't have low self esteem. Which are exactly the kinds of women cry their isn't enough of. Unless their some fucking loser who thinks they are a player because they have to get women drunk to fuck them.

Seriously this shit isn't complicated and it's not just people with autism, I also understand what Autism is and that is an unfair label for someone who just chooses to be an abusive toxic asshole.

Did you ever have people tell, straight in your face, year after year, "you are ugly as fuck", "you will die alone because you look like Shrek" and "You're weird, nobody wants you. You are a loser", then have people fake interest in you just to laugh in your face and say "HAHA, did you really think someone like YOU had a chance?" though? There is a huge different in impact between "No", "I have a partner already" and that. Hearing the former, for several years consistently does fuck your mind up in ways people who haven't experienced it can't even imagine.

[Yriel]

An online community does not compensate social isolation at all. like I wrote in the OP I played WoW. I was part of a guild, but that still didn't make me feel any less lonely and isolated.

Well i guess but gaming communities are, in the end, just means to an end, people to play the game with. It's no surprise that you (in most cases) can't talk with them about private stuff but as i understand it the incel communities are about talking about their problems.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Maybe people aren't as strong as you? Rejection can leave a lasting mark. Sure, some incels might be that alt-right (women are subservient to men) crowd, but maybe your experience is just one positive of many negatives. There were many individuals in my high school who bore the worst of rejection and insults, for being ugly and liking dungeons and dragons, and I wouldn't be surprised if they hated women because of it. People can be cruel. I'm concerned that you're giving a blind eye to the 'incels' who are psychologically damaged and need help.

Strong, dude I wasn't Strong getting rejected feels like shit, especially when you built up the guts to ask a girl out, dreaming about her, wondering what it would be like to be with her, and BOOM she doesn't fucking like you, she is into guys that do something else for her.

Yeah every guy has been through that, maybe it takes strength, and no I didn't have a lot of friends in schools either, my friends select few all went through the same thing.

As for all the other problems I had them and have them, so do a lot of girls I thought I liked, until I actually learned I didn't want to be the kind of guy they liked. Seriously that is just life.

Of course some have issues, no argument, and maybe some have a harder time than others, I hate bullied, I don't believe in giving people shit for that. However some people are jerks and being an asshole and thoughtless ought to come with social consequences.

Sometimes that is also unfair, but when it comes to a bunch of dudes horny, and hate the world because the girls they like don't want to fuck them is stupid. That isn't especially autism or any other specific defect unless otherwise specifically diagnosed.


And yes we all develop differently, but as angry as most get, killing other people, and making their personal problems everyone else's isn't an option

As I said plenty of girls in high school don't even get asked out at all, imagine that, you live in a society where you are told to be this object, and some do the best they can, and no guys even want to touch them and then when girls cope with the same kind of shit by being weird and awkward they get called names because not only are they not pretty enough they aren't nice enough or whatever.

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Did you ever have people tell, straight in your face, year after year, "you are ugly as fuck", "you will die alone because you look like Shrek" and "You're weird, nobody wants you. You are a loser", then have people fake interest in you just to laugh in your face and say "HAHA, did you really think someone like YOU had a chance?" though? There is a huge different in impact between "No", "I have a partner already" and that. Hearing the former, for several years consistently does fuck your mind up in ways people who haven't experienced it can't even imagine.

Damn! Well no but I sure as shit got looks like "Eww" sure. Did I get picked on? Yep! Which is why I got into sports, which I hated, but fighting back and pushing back was my way of being left the fuck alone.

But it left scars for a while and as you get older and look back, have more experience with women you realize it wasn't them or you. It's just life, people navigating and adjusting to wear they want to be. And in life like the puzzle we all face some things just don't fit. It does hurt, but everybody goes through it.

[laplacedemon]

Ok? Good for him. It's not someone I'd ever be intimate with because I'd feel disgusted by it.

How can you say no to this:

[Helgrimm]

Strong, dude I wasn't Strong getting rejected feels like shit, especially when you built up the guts to ask a girl out, dreaming about her, wondering what it would be like to be with her, and BOOM she doesn't fucking like you, she is into guys that do something else for her.

Yeah every guy has been through that, maybe it takes strength, and no I didn't have a lot of friends in schools either, my friends select few all went through the same thing.

As for all the other problems I had them and have them, so do a lot of girls I thought I liked, until I actually learned I didn't want to be the kind of guy they liked. Seriously that is just life.

Of course some have issues, no argument, and maybe some have a harder time than others, I hate bullied, I don't believe in giving people shit for that. However some people are jerks and being an asshole and thoughtless ought to come with social consequences.

Sometimes that is also unfair, but when it comes to a bunch of dudes horny, and hate the world because the girls they like don't want to fuck them is stupid. That isn't especially autism or any other specific defect unless otherwise specifically diagnosed.


And yes we all develop differently, but as angry as most get, killing other people, and making their personal problems everyone else's isn't an option

As I said plenty of girls in high school don't even get asked out at all, imagine that, you live in a society where you are told to be this object, and some do the best they can, and no guys even want to touch them and then when girls cope with the same kind of shit by being weird and awkward they get called names because not only are they not pretty enough they aren't nice enough or whatever.

I don't think it's about "guys who like girls that don't want to fuck them", it's about a cumulative rejection by females and males for their appearance and personality these incels hold during their developmental period. Incels are to be pitied and a focus of rehabilitation rather than demonized.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I don't think it's about "guys who like girls that don't want to fuck them", it's about a cumulative rejection by females and males for the appearance and personality these incels hold during their developmental period. Incels are to be pitied and a focus of rehabilitation rather than demonized.

Yeah but I reject that because the truth is everyone EVERYONE gets rejected, besides maybe Brad Pitt or the Thor dude LOL!

I mean I was a loner also in school and I don't think being alone means your lonely, sure there has to be places to socialize, Boys and Girls Club, Scouts, Camping, Sports, etc.

But none of that will immune one from being rejected, and it's hard not to take that shit personal when it's someone else you like telling you "No" but that is part of life. So unless their is a developmental issue, and I am sensitive to that, I don't see that explaining a lot of this.

Anger at rejection is normal too, but again, when I was in high school plenty of girls even my ugly ass didn't give a second look either. Who was I right?

I mean I was never rude or an asshole to anyone because of it, I made friends with those I liked personally even if rare, male or female. But as angry as I got, never at any point did I hate women, I kind of hated other people in general. I also damn sure didn't imagine murdering people especially girls because of it.


Keep in mind I was an obnoxious asshole too in high school, I think everybody was in their own way when you are young. But I also learned how you treat others comes back to you.

I emotionally invested in a handful of people I called friends, it wasn't always easy either, but there was the reward that comes with not knowing that love pays dividends.

Don't be abusive towards others, don't let people be abusive towards you. Works the same way with women. And I guarantee you the same Incels that have problems with Woman don't have any real Male friends either and it's for the same reasons.

As I said it all comes down to the choices you make and how you treat people. It's not a program it's not always perfectly logical

[Gigantique]

I mean, I still believe it’s mostly on the individual. I was bullied more and more heavily from year 4 to year 10 of school (so from 9 to 15 years old) and was hardline rejected by everyone due to not wanting to become targets from having anything to do with me. The initial reasons for me to become a target, now that I’m older and can reflect, were pretty stupid; I was good at school, and I didn’t 180 from liking LEGOs and Zelda into liking guns and naked women when we entered 5th grade, like all the other boys (very small rural community).

I was lucky in the sense that I didn’t *need* people, I had my videogames and didn’t really feel isolated (even though I was), and I was stubborn enough to not let the bullies twist my «who is to blame for this?» onto myself instead of them. Of course there were sad moments, and I had exactly 0 interactions with a girl by the point I was gonna start high school.

I just had to decide to be different by the time high school came. I entered a private school in the area, mostly due to it being closer to home, having «free» lunch (due to parents paying, free for me!) and the fact that the bullies were too dumb to get into that school, so most of the students were boarding students, who had never met me. If I had been the same person I was in primary school, avoiding people and just minding my own business until the day was done and I could go home and play WoW, I probably wouldn’t have developed a lot, but I made an effort to be outspoken and to reach out to people and make friends, and lo- and behold, people aren’t complete numbnuts once they start growing up :P

The circumstances definitely helped me, since high school became a soft «reset» for my social opportunities, but I still think it was me consciously DECIDING to take down my shields and «fake» being very used to the attention and inclusion in a group of people until it started actually being natural that did the trick.

If I had sought out echo chambers like incel forums etc tho? Ho boi, I’d probably be a toxic incel spewing vitriol around me instead.

[Rennadrel]

Well, those people are worth supporting and helping, definitely. Especially if they're willing to put in the time and effort for self-improvement.

Kinda how I've had to go through life. I was horrible socially, and still find it challenging at times. But I've always blamed myself for my failings. But when you admit that you have faults and try to better yourself, you are changing the perceptions about yourself in the eyes of others as much as you are your own self. I admit that I'm picky about the kinds of women I'm attracted to, but I find that there's still a lot of bias by both men and women, especially as we get older, towards members of the opposite sex. It's funny how often I read about women who want relationships with guys who are serious, mature and not cheaters. Yet they wonder why their relationships with the pretty boys and the jocks always fall apart. It's because those guys care more about getting off than they do about emotional investment in a relationship. The social dynamic today is hypocritical as hell though.

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I don't think it's about "guys who like girls that don't want to fuck them", it's about a cumulative rejection by females and males for their appearance and personality these incels hold during their developmental period. Incels are to be pitied and a focus of rehabilitation rather than demonized.

It's interesting, during my developmental period of my life, the last thing I was concerned with was relationships. I wasn't ever a smart kid, so I had to dedicate more time to school work than most kids. I honestly didn't start caring until I was in my mid 20's and done college.

[grexly75]

Actually, that is a myth that most of them blame others. Some of them certainly do but, from reading their forum, most of them blame it all on themselves. Namely their looks or mental issues. There's a reason most of them call themselves mental/fat/facecel. Because they blame their failures on their mental disorders (more often than not autism), them being fat, or their face not being good-looking enough. Incel community has made facial looks a complete science, trying to explain why they are ugly through a lot of angles, narrowed eyes and all.

It's just that outside of their own community, it's the hateful people that get noticed. The normal "boring" ones, only blaming themselves, don't get anywhere near as much external attention. For every Alek Maneesian, there are 20 who are so insecure about their face or mental state that it's crippling.

And there in lies the problem, due to the actions of a few the majority get painted as being evil people by the rest of society.. People need to understand that not all of a particular group are like the few that make the headlines.. Unfortunately in the end they all get demonized because of the few that do make waves..

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I don't know how that's a thing. It is stupidly rare that I see a woman that I wouldn't smash. And why don't the *cels just hookup?

Don't be surprised that it may be more common than you think.. Like those men who think that they are unattractive there are probably a fair amount of women who think the same as well, thus is why the term "femcel" came into being..

[Mormolyce]

On a totally unrelated note I was reading about Notch today.

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Incels are just male version of radical feminists

Radical feminists get laid.

[Verdugo]

Ok? Good for him. It's not someone I'd ever be intimate with because I'd feel disgusted by it.

How can you NOT be in love with this piece of hunk.

Radical feminists get laid.

And then accuse them of rape. It kinda mimics the mantis mating rituals.