Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[Grythletubs]

Just saw it this morning, what an amazing movie.

[tyrlaan]

Spoiler link to explain the timeline stuff
No idea who made dis but well, atleast it explains stuff.
https://pp.userapi.com/c846320/v8463...5XWtIhdjCo.jpg (dont click it if u didnt watch the movie)

I like the movie tbh.

This maps it all consistent with how I understand things, but I'm not sure I agree with all the branch timelines still being in existence. The fundamental argument made in the film is returning the stones with minimal disruption should undo the branching.

To me there are only 2 branch timelines left post movie. The one with Loki escaping because just returning the mind stone isn't going to unravel the failed heist of the space stone, and the one where Cap chooses to live his life with Peggy because its not even created by a stone and there's arguably no easy way to "go back and fix it".

Maybe there's a 3rd, the one Thanos traveled from for the end fight, but I guess it comes down to when Cap could return the stone. If he could just waltz into the ruins and place it back moments after Nebula snagged it, Quill could arguably come to in time to get the stone before the ripple effects of the stone heist really began. Might be a stretch though, so maybe there's a third.

I think some of this depends on if the stones could be returned a literal instant after taken or not, or would Cap have to wait until they're in the main timeline (i.e. it's impossible for two of the same stones to exist in the same timeline). If it's the latter, then yeah, we've got a boatload of divergent timelines

None of that bothers me though, unless that's all true and [B]never[/B] addressed in any way. The only time travel bit that bugs me is Steve's return to the main timeline, which really should have been on the time machine pad to not (apparently) break the rules set in the movie. I have heard the argument that in the branch timeline where he stayed with Peggy, he must have been Cap since he had a shield to even pass to Sam at all. And if that's true, then you could argue that geniuses in that timeline could have just figured out how to send him to his original timeline. That works I guess, but that feels a bit Marvel No-Prize to me.

[Svifnymr]

I agree with you, that's how I view the thing.

But in my opinion, all the timelines they've visited are altered, so they have to continue on their own path.

As I mentioned though, have their always been alternate timelines and now there are 1-4 more alternates? Or is there only the one timeline that's important and now 1-4 new alternates? I think there has to be many alternates and creating a few more really doesn't matter much.

[Skulltaker]

I was reading a post on reddit that Disney can't even use the characters for two years or something like that.

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I struggling with whether or not they jumped to one parallel timeline or created multiple timelines when they jumped. I decided on one parallel timeline in my head because its a lot simpler. Wonder what the canon explanation is.

They created several branches in time, and each alteration of the past created a new timeline that will develop on itself. You have:

The 1950 timeline in which Steve Rogers goes back to marry Peggy Carter.

The 1970es timeline where Tony Stark meets Howard

The 2012 timeline in which Loki escapes after the events of The Avengers

The 2013 timeline in which Thor meets his mother

The 2014 timeline, from where Thanos invades the main timeline and is then removed from by Tony Stark

And the Main Timeline. Main Timeline Steve Rogers, at high age, uses his suit to travel back to this timeline in 2023, right after Starks funeral, to pass on the Shield to Sam and say goodbye to Bucky. He never lived out his life in this timeline, but in an alternate one, namely the last seen in the movie, the 1950es timeline. In the Main Timeline, Peggy Carter married an unnamed US soldier.

The last part is, of course, happening off screen. It's the only explenation that allows for a unified theory of timetravel, namely that the Pym particle allows you not only to travel time, but also alternate realities. You cannot alter the past to change the present.

[PACOX]

They created several branches in time, and each alteration of the past created a new timeline that will develop on itself. You have:

The 1950 timeline in which Steve Rogers goes back to marry Peggy Carter.

The 1970es timeline where Tony Stark meets Howard

The 2012 timeline in which Loki escapes after the events of The Avengers

The 2013 timeline in which Thor meets his mother

The 2014 timeline, from where Thanos invades the main timeline and is then removed from by Tony Stark

And the Main Timeline. Main Timeline Steve Rogers, at high age, uses his suit to travel back to this timeline in 2023, right after Starks funeral, to pass on the Shield to Sam and say goodbye to Bucky. He never lived out his life in this timeline, but in an alternate one. In the Main Timeline, Peggy Carter married an unnamed US soldier.

Ah. It suddenly all clicks now.

[Svifnymr]

And the Main Timeline. Main Timeline Steve Rogers, at high age, uses his suit to travel back to this timeline in 2023, right after Starks funeral, to pass on the Shield to Sam and say goodbye to Bucky. He never lived out his life in this timeline, but in an alternate one, namely the last seen in the movie, the 1950es timeline. In the Main Timeline, Peggy Carter married an unnamed US soldier.

So, I mean, Mr Unnamed could be Steve Rogers with a big fake beard?

[Skulltaker]

Ah. It suddenly all clicks now.

Have to agree, it only works if I make up a scene that should have been there and wasn't, but I think this is how it's supposed to be.

It also makes for some hilarious scenes.

1950es 'original' Steve Rogers still went into the ice, and is probably, at some point, thawed out by main timeline Rogers. So that timeline has two Captain Americas, with 1950es original Steve Rogers at some point traveling back to a new timeline to marry a new Peggy Carter, thus creating an unending circle of new 1950es timelines.

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So, I mean, Mr Unnamed could be Steve Rogers with a big fake beard?

No, because you cannot go back in time to alter the present. It also makes no sense; the fact that Peggy Carter was married is public knowledge. She was a highly ranked member of SHIELD; at least Hydra would have looked into it, if not other members of SHIELD, not to mention her friends, who would have asked at some point 'Hey, where's that husband of yours?' The number of soldiers rescued by Cap from Stalingrad is probably rather limited. Someone would have checked.

[seleri]

Yeah, that part is problematic. My take - is much like yours. I've read compelling arguments that he went into the past because it was always going to happen, but that calls into question, for me, all the other time travel moments in the film. So I see it like you do, it had to be an alternate timeline created when he chose to stay in the past with Peggy. One thing that supports this is that he has a shield to give to Sam. This also suggests that he did Capt America stuff in the alternate timeline.

What breaks things for me is that I feel like he should have returned on the time travel pad. I've since heard an explanation that if in the alternate timeline he still did the superhero thing, it's simple enough to assume that alternate timeline also had its assortment of geniuses, one of which could have sorted out how to get him back to the main timeline. I suppose that's possible, but I think perhaps a bit more explanation around the entire scene would have been good.

Not sure if it's old news in this thread or not, but in an EW interview the Russos pretty much confirmed that's exactly what happened, thankfully. They even seemed to imply that how he got back is intentionally open ended. So...4th Cap movie where he's in the alternate timeline coming? I'd love to see how he changed that world or get an oldschool Avengers movie with Hank and Janet, T'chaka, Howard Stark, the Ancient One, etc.

[RuneDK]

Ultron designed Vision and he's dead.

Shuri was in the process of getting vision to work without the mind stone. I feel in BP2 we will at least get an answer on if she can restore him.

[Svifnymr]

No, because you cannot go back in time to alter the present. It also makes no sense; the fact that Peggy Carter was married is public knowledge. She was a highly ranked member of SHIELD; at least Hydra would have looked into it, if not other members of SHIELD, not to mention her friends, who would have asked at some point 'Hey, where's that husband of yours?' The number of soldiers rescued by Cap from Stalingrad is probably rather limited. Someone would have checked.

Dude, I said he had a fake beard, no one can defeat a fake beard.

It is amusing that she married a guy with no name and whom doesn't appear in her photo's.

[Skulltaker]

Dude, I said he had a fake beard, no one can defeat a fake beard.

It is amusing that she married a guy with no name and whom doesn't appear in her photo's.

He was supposed to be featured in Season 2 of Agent Carter.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Shuri was in the process of getting vision to work without the mind stone. I feel in BP2 we will at least get an answer on if she can restore him.

If she can, he'll be colourless, since the Mind Stone is gone.

[Claymore]

I'll be honest; I was shocked how much I loved the movie. It wasn't *PERFECT*, but it did an amazing fucking job on virtually every front.

I think anything to do with time-travel is innately messy and always a bad idea. Having said that, I thought they did a great job with it. I was honestly surprised when they killed Thanos right at the very start of the movie, and was immediately left wondering "Wait, what the hell is this movie about?". I kind of rolled my eyes at the "girl power" moment near the end of the movie, and I've definitely not warmed up to Captain Marvel, but they handled her well enough for the most part.

I especially love what they did with Tony Stark and Steve Rodgers' endings. Tony's was obviously quite sad, but I think the whole movie leading up to it did a great job at providing closure for him (and the audience). Funny enough, it was Happy's "Your dad liked cheeseburgers..." line that choked me up the most. I also loved that CapAm -- the character that "makes the most sense" to give his life to the universe -- got to have his own "happily ever after" with Peggy. Especially great, considering he hasn't had a good love interest since.

Now... my couple of complaints.

First off, I was super bummed that we didn't get to see the budding romance between Bruce Banner and Black Widow come to fruition. He didn't seem particularly upset about her dying to get the Soul Stone, either. I suppose they had a LOT of stuff to cram into the movie already, and the movie was remarkably well-paced, but I wish that'd been a bigger moment for Bruce. REALLY seeing him "Hulk-out".

Beyond that, I wasn't crazy about the direction they went with Thor. The "oh look, he's fat!" gag got old right away. Thor's arguably lost more than anyone, and having him just be a "fat slob/comedy relief" was a disappointment. By contrast, I really liked that Rocket was more "serious", and the scene of him putting his hand in Nebula's at the start did a great job setting the tone for the movie.

Nothing against Ant-Man per se, but I actually think he should've died when Thanos' ship showed up at the end. That was such an amazing MOMENT, when you just see him blasted away. I dunno, I feel like just immediately having him be 'fine' kind of robbed that moment of its impact. Plus, it would've solved the issue we now have of "Why don't we just use time-travel to fix everything and bring everyone back individually?"

Pretty much everything after that point was FUCKING INCREDIBLE, though!!!

I can't speak to anyone else's viewing, but when Mjolnir flies past Thor and into Cap's hands, my theater fucking ERUPTED!!! I mean, Cap's earlier "Hail Hydra" got a lot of cheers, too, but him taking up Mjolnir was unlike anything else I've ever experienced in a theater. It was like being at a major event or concert, the crowd just had so much energy! And when those portals start opening up, with basically everyone you've ever seen in a Marvel movie shoe up? I literally thought to myself, "This really is the ultimate battle". I didn't even miss the X-Men not being there. I can't imagine ever "final battle" scene ever being able to top that.

Really, the only part I wasn't about was the "girl power" moment. I almost laughed out loud, because the theater was dead-silent when they all came together. It was clearly supposed to be another "big moment", but it just didn't land with the theater I was in. Which is funny, because only moments earlier, when Scarlet Witch shows up, it was filled with audible *gasps* and "Oh SHIT!". I'm just glad Captain Marvel didn't "steal the kill", and served the purpose of showing Thanos to be a real threat (him pulling one of the stones out was pretty insane).

I also really love the funeral. Felt like a perfectly fitting end to everything. Obviously, the MCU will go on, but if they never made another Marvel movie, this honestly felt like a perfect ending to the MCU. So many clever references sprinkled out, this truly felt like a movie that was "for the fans".

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As far as "Old Cap" in concerned, I think the best explanation is that Old Cap lives in a COMPLETELY different timeline/universe. Maybe he gently manipulates events in his timeline, but he clearly has to have SOME involvement, because he has to be able to get to Asgard to return Mjolnir at some point, along with the other Infinity Stones. For all we know, he could wind up co-founding SHIELD with Peggy, and just being a behind-the-scenes guy, like Nick Fury was.

Whatever the case, he winds up getting access to Pym particles and they build a "time-machine" to jump back into the main timeline. That's also how he comes back with a brand-new shield for Sam (Thanos destroyed HIS shield).

So maybe Old Cap's "timeline" is just super boring. Captain America isn't the type to just "let a bunch of bad shit happen", but armed with all this future knowledge, like I suggested before, he just gently manipulates events to prevent events from ever really escalating on a cosmic scale.

The only possible wrinkle to this 'explanation' is if they have Old Cap show up in the upcoming Black Widow movie. It's supposed to be a prequel, but I wouldn't put it past them to have Old Cap show up in a post-credits scene to deliver some kind of cryptic warning to save her life (ie. he hands her some kind of small box, and says "Don't open this until after 'the snap'. You'll know what I mean.").

That, or "Phase 4" deals directly with Captain America attempting to meddle with time, drawing the attention of Kang.

[Bodakane]

In case this hasn't;t been posted yet....

Google "thanos"

Click the infinity gauntlet

[Poppincaps]

Do you guys think we're gonna see X-Men in Phase 4 or Phase 5?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Saw the film tonight, while I can honestly say I enjoyed the film one thing bugged me greatly and that was Brie larson, I honestly wanted to love the character but I couldnt get past the fact that her actress is an utter bitch that doesnt deserve the role one thing that makes me happy is she didn't steal light from the original avengers the film otherwise was great.

Why do people hate this woman so much??

[Aurrora]

So, I mean, Mr Unnamed could be Steve Rogers with a big fake beard?

Only if it was the Steve Rogers of a different timeline.

[Ayirasi]

Just nodded my head like, "Yeah, goddamn right he's worthy of Mjolnir. Fuck him up, Steve!"

And I love fat Thor. I hope he stays fat for Guardians 3.

[Bodakane]

Why do people hate this woman so much??

She has opinions. Insecure men generally don't like that.

[Ivanstone]

As far as "Old Cap" in concerned, I think the best explanation is that Old Cap lives in a COMPLETELY different timeline/universe. Maybe he gently manipulates events in his timeline, but he clearly has to have SOME involvement, because he has to be able to get to Asgard to return Mjolnir at some point, along with the other Infinity Stones. For all we know, he could wind up co-founding SHIELD with Peggy, and just being a behind-the-scenes guy, like Nick Fury was.

Simplest solution is that he returns all of stones, travels back to the 40's and lived a boring life in the main timeline. Peggy Carter's husband is never revealed. It could actually be Steve Rogers.