Incels, and what social isolation does to the mind

[Moralgy]

I know enough to know where you come from in thought. And it seems weird that I am projected as being reliant and not him. This kind of shows how little Motherhood is really valued by you.

"Motherhood" won't feed the bills, and this world revolves around money. You can value raising a child very highly, but at the end of the day, your child will starve without an income in the house. From a pure "staying alive" situation, the income section of the house is going to be more important than the child raising part in that kind of situation. While in your current situation it does work since he does want a family, if he dies, you are lowkey screwed until you find a job that isn't just entry level and your child will suffer for it.

[Eveningforest]

That is one of the major pros to a stay at home mom, but after school kicks in, there is no real reason to be a stay at home mom during 7 am to 3pm other than cleaning the house, which both spouses can do equally, and resting, which if both spouses share responsibility with child care, isn't going to be a big deal.

It is nice to have the option to stay at home, however, if you can afford it. At least part-time. I used to pull 12hr shifts at the hospital only to come home completely stressed out and drained of energy. A stressed out husband (from his job) greeted me at home. We decided this was noway to live and I stopped working for several years after that. The level of happiness went through the roof for everyone.

Unfortunately, there aren't many couples who can get away with something like this these days. Companies keep putting more and more pressure on their workers (completely unchecked), and wages have been stagnant for decades. I can't blame young couples today for evaluating their choices very seriously.

Both people in a relationship should be able to carry the family financially, independently. Things happen in life. If you can only rely on one person to support the family, think very long and hard before jumping into parenthood.

[Moralgy]

It is nice to have the option to stay at home, however, if you can afford it. At least part-time. I used to pull 12hr shifts at the hospital only to come home completely stressed out and drained of energy. A stressed out husband (from his job) greeted me at home. We decided this was noway to live and I stopped working for several years after that. The level of happiness went through the roof for everyone.

Unfortunately, there aren't many couples who can get away with something like this these days. Companies keep putting more and more pressure on their workers (completely unchecked), and wages have been stagnant for decades. I can't blame young couples today for evaluating their choices very seriously.

Both people in a relationship should be able to carry the family financially, independently. Things happen in life. If you can only rely on one person to support the family, think very long and hard before jumping into parenthood.

If it made you happy that is great, but that isn't going to be the case for everyone. The people I am arguing with end up being in the camp of "it is bad and you would be happier if you stayed at home." It is what I even initially responded to in this thread, that it would not make me happy, personally, so forcing it on women is a bad thing.

[Shaderas]

Ideally there should be a balance, but humans do not seem to understand or stick long, to the concept of Temperance.

Is this really about Temperance (which seems more synonymous with abstinence), or about moderation?

[Theodarzna]

Well, without you, he might not have children, which in essence means he wouldn't need you to raise his children since they wouldn't exist.

BUT! He obviously wants a wife, and children, and he cannot have that without you. So he absolutely needs you and depends on you.

Do that shit! That is awesome!

He depends entirely on me to take care of him to some extent, he'd be tragically helpless without me, and on some level, he knows I could replace him if I chose. But in our relationship, I'm the one who comes from a much better off family. He is funny, good looking, loyal and good in bed.

Our little family is effectively a matriarchy with me making demands and sitting like a queen bee. If he were more domineering maybe I'd be closer to a radfem and have Moralgy's opinions, but the fact is I have a kind of slave in my hand and a wonderful daughter to focus on.

[Shaderas]

"Motherhood" won't feed the bills, and this world revolves around money. You can value raising a child very highly, but at the end of the day, your child will starve without an income in the house. From a pure "staying alive" situation, the income section of the house is going to be more important than the child raising part in that kind of situation. While in your current situation it does work since he does want a family, if he dies, you are lowkey screwed until you find a job that isn't just entry level and your child will suffer for it.

If he dies, she most likely will get a very large life insurance pay out.

I know several of my friends who are married, that if the husband unexpectedly passed away, that the wife wouldn't have to work for quite a while, if ever again.

[Kathandira]

Yep, observation and reflection. Unfortunately we seem to mostly focus on one in our culture, and not the other anymore.

And we can tied this into the actual subject of this thread. Incels, self reflection and external observations. Rather than focusing on the negative aspects they see in themselves, and the negative things they observe in others, perhaps it would be best if they started looking at the positives, or the potential to turn things around to be positive for themselves. It helped me when I felt lonely and isolated, feeling like life is leaving me behind and there was no hope for me to find happiness. I found solace in a new group of people who I felt I belonged to. People who were odd, quirky, and had a rough past, but were able to rise above it all and find their personal success and happiness.

[Theodarzna]

"Motherhood" won't feed the bills, and this world revolves around money. You can value raising a child very highly, but at the end of the day, your child will starve without an income in the house. From a pure "staying alive" situation, the income section of the house is going to be more important than the child raising part in that kind of situation. While in your current situation it does work since he does want a family, if he dies, you are lowkey screwed until you find a job that isn't just entry level and your child will suffer for it.

Well there is no worry about that. So, given that the bases are covered, why not spend time with her and focus on other persuites?

[Shaderas]

If it made you happy that is great, but that isn't going to be the case for everyone. The people I am arguing with end up being in the camp of "it is bad and you would be happier if you stayed at home." It is what I even initially responded to in this thread, that it would not make me happy, personally, so forcing it on women is a bad thing.

Definitely should not be forced to stay at home if you don't want to. But OTOH, it should definitely not be forced to go out and get a career, if you're happy being a housewife (and your finances support it)

[Moralgy]

Well there is no worry about that. So, given that the bases are covered, why not spend time with her and focus on other persuites?

If it works for you, go for it, but for myself, I would rather plan for the future and possible "what ifs" more than feeling safe and thinking that income someone else is making for me is going to last forever.

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Definitely should not be forced to stay at home if you don't want to. But OTOH, it should definitely not be forced to go out and get a career, if you're happy being a housewife (and your finances support it)

Which I wouldn't argue against what so ever, I would just say "be prepared for the worse case scenario" when it comes to stay at home moms. I've seen 2 friends, probably ex friends at this point, have their husband leave them and they were shit out of luck without an income anymore. Child support doesn't pay enough when the man its coming from isn't super rich.

[Eveningforest]

If it made you happy that is great, but that isn't going to be the case for everyone. The people I am arguing with end up being in the camp of "it is bad and you would be happier if you stayed at home." It is what I even initially responded to in this thread, that it would not make me happy, personally, so forcing it on women is a bad thing.

I am surprised you're giving those people a time of the day. If it makes you happy, however, keep banging your head against the wall. Have fun.

[Kathandira]

Agreed, but some of them do not know any of this, as it does not come "naturally" and our society is mostly about "Just be yourself!"... what if "yourself" is a lonely, awkward loner?

It could be. And if that is the case, then so be it for those folks, lol. They either have to learn to be content with being a loner, or make the change they want to see in themselves. Hopefully they have someone close enough to them that can lend them a helping hand to push them forward when they can't push themselves.

[Moralgy]

I am surprised you're giving those people a time of the day. If it makes you happy, however, keep banging your head against the wall. Have fun.

I found arguing on this forum makes me far less argumentative at work with dumbasses. It is the only reason I came back here lol.

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If he dies, she most likely will get a very large life insurance pay out.

I know several of my friends who are married, that if the husband unexpectedly passed away, that the wife wouldn't have to work for quite a while, if ever again.

It isn't always going to be a certainty unless you are from an already middle class or above family. At that point, you can ride the money your husband was able to pool in the bank account for a few years.

[EbaumsTipster]

Social Isolation is a problem, but the average person is heartless, so they have no problem in encouraging/demonizing already lonely people to remain the way they are.

The lack of sympathy for other people is a much bigger problem that is also untreatable save for mass lobotomies that trick people into thinking others are worth loving save for "exceptions" (see: family, friends, wife, children).

[Kathandira]

Currently, it seems that they just rot in their own hell, till one of the "braver" ones turn their living hell into reality, shooting up people, driving over people, etc, etc...

And that growth, that trend, does not seem like it is slowing down in society.

Tragically true. I can't even begin to come up with a potential solution for it. Nothing outside of the 'see something, say something' message that is being taught in some schools. I know there is potential for abuse of that system, but there is cause for its necessity as well.

[EbaumsTipster]

That is my issue with this whole thing... Society is doing exactly what they think society would, and are justifying their hate, and magnifying it. It is idiotic.

Because people think lonely people are dangerous/evil, and they have no chance of bouncing back, so they're better off dead. Hence the goading until they snap/kill themselves/kill others.

The average human thinks that others are BAD and have no chance of redemption or changing. And there is no way to fix this.

[Stardrift]

They're teenaged boys with autism. I think you're over-thinking it.

Socially inept, check.
Swarming in one place on the internet and circlejerking with hate, check.
Obsessions over weird and outlandish things, check.
Obsessions with guns, check.
Weird and or sickening fetishes, check.

That's the internet checklist on how to tell someone has autism. If there is at least 2/4, chances are they are on the spectrum.

The media and twitter has built them up to be this problematic gang of supervillains who seek to destroy all life. But in reality, they are the biproduct of giving your autistic child unsupervised access to the internet. Which, if parents who bothered to learn how autism truly works, would know this is a major no-no.

Social isolation, anger issues, depression. These are three things that plague an autistic individual. Letting them do as they please without therapy to help them understand themselves better is basically handing them a gun and telling them to go wild.


Any further discussion on this is just fodder spewed by people with absolutely no understanding, and are only saying so because the internet and TV tells them to.

[Kickbuttmario]

He depends entirely on me to take care of him to some extent, he'd be tragically helpless without me, and on some level, he knows I could replace him if I chose. But in our relationship, I'm the one who comes from a much better off family. He is funny, good looking, loyal and good in bed.

Our little family is effectively a matriarchy with me making demands and sitting like a queen bee. If he were more domineering maybe I'd be closer to a radfem and have Moralgy's opinions, but the fact is I have a kind of slave in my hand and a wonderful daughter to focus on.

Dude no offense but you sound like a huge red flag to me. I am definitely an incel and have looked extensively at the redpill/incel communities and you are such a tripe of a person. You seem to know about the dark humors of life yet embrace it. I truly wonder how you would treat your daughter if something terrible were to happen to her and suddenly she becomes ugly. Where will that motherhood of yours go then?

[EbaumsTipster]

They're teenaged boys with autism. I think you're over-thinking it.

Sharing the symptoms of autism does not mean you have literal mental illness.

Shit like this only spurs angrier reactions. Calling lonely, scared, angry and sometimes stupid people sick and deficient only makes them worse.

[Kickbuttmario]

Social Isolation is a problem, but the average person is heartless, so they have no problem in encouraging/demonizing already lonely people to remain the way they are.

The lack of sympathy for other people is a much bigger problem that is also untreatable save for mass lobotomies that trick people into thinking others are worth loving save for "exceptions" (see: family, friends, wife, children).

Honestly this whole thread is pissing me off right now. It really is social isolation and I wonder how on earth women with these problems would deal with these things. The memes would say: "women have it easier and can get laid no problem". We also live in a society that encourages you to "look out for yourself".