Do you think BFA’s story is worse than WOD?

[Eggroll]

WoD was the first expansion in my WoW-Life since 2005 where i was turned off from logging in on some days because it just did not draw me in. At all.

With BFA, it is like 10times worse. Because this story is not only putting me off right now, it is damaging the lore and characters of the entire franchise so much that it is pretty much impossible to ever come back to a more sensical level after this, short of a full blown retcon.

Same here. Maybe for other reasons but generally the same sentiment. I hate the devs for making me not want to log into WoW anymore

[Martymark]

WoD's story was crazy and loopy and didn't make a lot of sense.

BFA's story on the other hand seems crafted to destroy everything I love and then piss on it's grave.

I'd prefer WoD, thanks.

[fooliuscaesar13]

I don't think that either story was bad, but a good bit of the in-game execution for both xpacs could have been handled better.

[Zuben]

No, though admittedly BfA gets points from me for Horde vs Alliance, even if it carries it poorly. HvsA is my favorite Warcraft content. BfA is also Azeroth centric instead of some AU other planet.

[Powerogue]

Absolutely not, that would be insane. At the least, it is very dramatic and impactful on the game world and I want to see how it ends.

Result of Blizzard not even trying: WoD
Result of Blizzard trying to produce something good: BfA

There, pick your poison.

What he said. I'm still waiting on the end of the expansion. As is, I'm currently in the boat of slowly losing confidence on the story as of recent twists such as Xal'atath we just friggin hand it over?! My pandaren would sooner throw themselves into Mount Doom, dagger in hand.

Good things we've gotten out of this so far:
-three extremely high quality cinematics. Old Soldier, Lost Honor, and the expansion release one.
-the night elves getting off their asses and doing something cool
-permanent impacts on the game world to raise the stakes. WOD had no stakes, it was practically non-canon. ("Oh no, Velen's dead! Good thing we have a spare!" )
-Jaina's arc coming full circle and pulling her out of that "DISMANTLE THE HORDE" slump from MOP to a better balance.
-return of Hati. Yes, I think the questline was that good.

Meanwhile the best thing we got out of WOD's story wasn't even in WOD's story, it was the mag'har recruitment scenario which was written specifically to address some of the dumbest parts of the end of WOD's original story. I hesitate to count it in WOD's favor; it came out during BFA.

Battle for Azeroth, hands down, no contest.

If anything can help you notice the attention to detail they cram into this stuff it's this wonderful nerd:

[TigTone]

I say WoD story is the worst. But I can see the argument of WoD story not being the worst since there was hardly any story in it besides the individual zones.

Also BFA story is still in the process of being told so I’ll reserve final judgment until it’s finished.

[Varodoc]

Warlords of Draenor? What story? Did it have a story? What did the main storyline consist of? These are all rhetorical questions.

[Selastan]

Warlords of Draenor was bad only because Blizzard cut most of it, leaving big gaps in plot progression and character motivation. Battle for Azeroth is a good story, and I really don't get why people hate on it so.

Question for everyone who dislikes it: Why? Other than the whole 'Sylvanas is Garrosh 2.0' argument, because that is so obviously not what is going on. Anyone who looks at the story beyond the surface level will know that the Horde's arc with this story is about fighting dirty vs fighting with honor, something that is actually an important topic. By jumpstarting an inevitable war, the Horde might have saved the entire planet at the cost of one tree. Hell, it was only for honor's sake that Teldrassil burned, which I thought was a great twist. Saurfang, in sparing Malfurion, cost the lives of all the innocents on Teldrassil. Saurfang didn't really learn his lesson, though. Sylvanas knows what she is doing. She has lifetimes worth of command experience, and more drive than anyone to see the Horde, her personal shield, survive. She was the rightfully appointed Warchief, and in disobeying her Saurfang might have spared himself the dishonor of a backstab, but he earned greater dishonor by ignoring direct orders, failing to kill an enemy commander, indirectly taking the lives of so many innocents, and putting the whole Horde into jeopardy considering how dangerous Malfurion is.

This isn't the story of Sylvanas turning tyrant that so many claim it to be. It's the story of the Horde adapting to its world, as shown by the ascension of an undead elf and the fall of an old orc warrior. It's the story of the Alliance and their failures to see the Horde as allies that continue to push the cycle of war, as Anduin becomes more and more like his warrior father and Jaina, once the greatest bridge between the two factions, becomes one of the biggest xenophobic warmongers. Battle for Azeroth is entirely about how the Horde are opening their eyes to the future while the Alliance narrows their view on the past.

This is symbolized not only by the disgrace of Saurfang, but of the undead/human reunion from the last novel. The undead who embraced what they were and cut ties to the past survived, but the ones who yearned for that past, their humanity, were killed. Killed because they recognized their old princess and begged her to return, in fact. The Horde recruit new allies in the Zandalari, and their questing experience is all about exploring a new land. Even the main antogist of the Horde's story, G'huun, is the (somewhat oxymoronic) new Old Gold made by the Titans. Meanwhile, the Alliance recruit old allies in the Kul'tirans, and the quests there deal with old threats such as the Drust and the Old Gods, and Jaina attempting to repent for her old role in her father's death in an old war.

EVERYTHING in this expantion's story revolves around these themes. This is Blizzard's attempt to establish what differs these factions. When World of Warcraft first began, the difference between the factions was the Alliance's unity, their old war bonds, their civilization. It was the Horde's tribalism, the great differences in their loose collaboration of rejected races united by nothing more than strength in numbers. But that can't be the case anymore. The Horde and Alliance aren't like that now. The Horde are tighter than ever, and no longer primarily primitive and tribal. Undeead, Blood Elves, Nightborn, Goblins, Zandalari, all advanced and civilized races. The old ways of the orcs and tauren don't suit them, and the old races are being outnumbered. Meanwhile, the Alliance becomes more seperate. No longer just the veterans of the first three wars, the Alliance has lost one of their main pillars, their shared belief in the Church of the Holy Light. Where the Night Elves were once the sole outcasts from a Church theocracy, now the Alliance openly accepts Void worshippers, of all things. Not only that, but the Dark Iron Dwarves, and pandaren don't seem too holy.

Battle for Azeroth's story establishes the NEW ties that these factions have now that old ones have rotted away with time:

For the Horde, it is progress. The reckless goblins and ruthless undead, the Nightborn eager to escape their ten thousand year bubble, the Zandalari and their embrace of their first new queen in a hundred years and the death of their primary deity, the blood elves and their thirst for power, the Horde will push for the future no matter the scorched earth and tank treads they may leave in their wake.

The Alliance, meanwhile, unite in old traditions. The humans and dwarves hold fast to their faith in the Church. The draenei are still humbled by their millennia pf running from the Legion, and their Lightforged counterparts zealots and veterans of an eternal war. The Kul'tiran's believe in their old sailor's superstitions. The night elves go to war for the loss of their old home, and the void elves abandon theirs for old allies and a much, much older power. The Alliance seek to protect their status-quo at all costs. Even if it means peace may always be out of reach to those not willing to make sacrifices.



...so it's a pretty good story if you ask me.

[Doffen]

Everything in WoD was awful, the story was just weird. The sudden turn of events and all that shit.

The faction war in BfA is silly af. Though I'll wait a bit to see what goes in the future, about Queen Azshara and especially N'Zoth. It could be good. Push on the word "could" here. It is at least interesting.

[metzger84]

they're around the same low level, easily digestible comic book standard as any other blizzard game ever made. asking whether expansion A or B is worse is splitting hairs

[Wildberry]

...so it's a pretty good story if you ask me.

Yeah, but you also included that you felt like Teldrassil was a twist, so that lowers the worth of your opinion considerably.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Nothing beats alternative universe and time traveling crap

They butchered Grom's character (Draenor is FREEE), two Velen's AU crap (but one Archimode), Ner'zhul was a dungeon boss??
And now we Mag'har orcs which travel back and forth in time when they level up... they cannot fix the leveling storyline with this

Bfa can be salvaged if Blizzard mans up

Salvaged? 8.2’s Story is already terrible. 8.3 wont do anything except make Nzoth look bad and shine more saliva polish on Anduin’s boot after he brings it to Sylvanas’ throat and that’ll be the morally grey moment for the alliance

[Justpassing]

WoD was okay. BfA is well... different.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Absolutely not, that would be insane. At the least, it is very dramatic and impactful on the game world and I want to see how it ends.



What he said. I'm still waiting on the end of the expansion. As is, I'm currently in the boat of slowly losing confidence on the story as of recent twists such as Xal'atath we just friggin hand it over?! My pandaren would sooner throw themselves into Mount Doom, dagger in hand.

Good things we've gotten out of this so far:
-three extremely high quality cinematics. Old Soldier, Lost Honor, and the expansion release one.
-the night elves getting off their asses and doing something cool
-permanent impacts on the game world to raise the stakes. WOD had no stakes, it was practically non-canon.
-Jaina's arc coming full circle and pulling her out of that "DISMANTLE THE HORDE" slump from MOP to a better balance.
-return of Hati. Yes, I think the questline was that good.

Meanwhile the best thing we got out of WOD's story wasn't even in WOD's story, it was the mag'har recruitment scenario which was written specifically to address some of the dumbest parts of the end of WOD's original story. I hesitate to count it in WOD's favor; it came out during BFA.

Battle for Azeroth, hands down, no contest.

If anything can help you notice the attention to detail they cram into this stuff it's this wonderful nerd:

Won’t watch their videos. They’re highly disrespectful and complete shills for Blizzard

[TheFirstOnes]

Forgot BFA had a story.

Same thing with WoD.

[Skytotem]

BFA is worse because it's essentially completed the destruction of the 'faction fantasy' for the Horde.

Moreover, it's done a lot of damage to character integrity and portrayals.

[Powerogue]

Won’t watch their videos. They’re highly disrespectful and complete shills for Blizzard

Well there's no disrespect in the video, it just focuses on him deep-diving into the small, easily missed details of the cinematic. The symbolism of Anduin stepping from the brightly lit Stormwind where he looks like he fits to the dark dungeons of the Stockades where he looks out of place, as an example. Expansion cinematics are typically very straightforward, being all about being big, bombastic, and inducing hype, whereas this is all about those little touches that tell a lot of complex story with subtle gestures. I don't think they've ever pulled off anything like this before.

It took a lot to impress me to the degree that I'd say these are better than WOD's cinematic, but I really do.

15:18 of this video is him talking about Old Soldier in the same sense. I'm not sure which one I like better, I always thought of them as a pair.

[Jastall]

WoD has a worse premise and cut tons of stuff. The transition towards it only made any sort of sense if you read War Crimes and Hellscream which is stupid. Plus it was a time travel AND alternate reality story which is a double whammy of awful as far as I'm concerned. It did have neat stuff like the Frostwolves, the Arakkoa, the Laughting Skull and even the Draenei got to almost be cool for a while.

BfA has worse execution, is way too convoluted for how insanely stupid it is and treats its characters worse as well, with more far-reaching lore implications. It does feature Zandalar and Kul Tiras which are nice places and stories when self-contained, but the faction war is the focus and is just all kinds of awful from beginning to end. It doesn't require external reading as much as WoD, but still, hiding crucial character information and motivations in external media (most tellingly Sylvanas's actual reason for the Burning) is just bad form.

I'm still giving it to WoD for one reason only: "Draenor is free!" is the single stupidest moment in Warcraft lore, bar none. Blizzard will have to work hard to top that one, albeit by the looks of things so far they sure seem to be trying.

IMO TBC had worse lore than either these two, but barely had a story at all so doesn't count for the purposes of the discussion.

[Voidwielder]

No but at the same time, WoD lore was far richer and denser.

Which is a big problem for me with BfA, the lore side of things is very, very shallow. Legion in this regard did it right - we had new zones with Archaeology stuff, entire Elf civilization with a very deep and developed epic quest line, we had class OH's quest lines that involved past, living and even future characters.

[Nirn]

They probably even could, if only they made it to be a consistent thing. Saurfang's honor in prepatch alone was already all over the place.

Concepts such as honor and ethics only work if they are truly finalized and codified, so to speak. Blizzard never codified the Orc honor and moral value systems, which is why we perpetually seem to be stuck in a question "Is this honorable or not?".