On boy, that's going to be good (Sports Illustrated have a premiere...)

[Post]

Looks pretty attractive to me.

Of course it does.

[Z-Man]

Problem with arguing that she's being oppressed is that both men and women in all western countries are routinely forced to wear certain things they may not otherwise if not for cultural pressure and expectations.

You should see my tantrums when someone insists on me wearing a suit and tie.

[Mormolyce]

Of course it does.

...?

That's supposed to be an insult I can only assume?

Imagine being this disconnected from reality.

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Where I'm from people say it because it's a funny word and most normal people don't put too much weight to words or get offended over nothing. I'm in a very blue and wealthy area. I'm not a conservative either in case you were trying to imply that. Not that I think conservative is a dirty word, they tend to have better positions than progressives just with worse arguments because they grew up being taught their ways are correct but never knowing why. Progressives are the complete opposite, they have better arguments but often worse positions that sound great but don't work.

I mean if we're talking about things that don't work, let's look back over the last 500 years of conservative thought and figure out how many of their positions stood the test of time. How's the divine right of kings going these days?

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Well d'oh, it's almost impossible to make beautiful women unattractive.

Also I'm not fine with your description of who uses "degenerate" - I use that to describe myself, as a "sex,drugs&rock&roll" hedonistic agnostic, like here:

I'm definitely not allowing anyone to take ownership of this word.

Degenerate is a prude's word. You appear to have co-opted it here.

You probably grew up in a conservative society with religious overtones where such a concept is normal.

[Jeezy911]

Is being progressive for the sole sake of "being progressive" still in-itself a good thing?

Still? It never has been.

[endersblade]

What. In the actual. Fuck.

Alright, I've had it. I've had enough with you fucking humans. When my people come and find me we will nuke you from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Thirza]

Accepting a culture that oppresses women and brainwashes women into being ashamed, servile and to cover up is a perversion of liberalism, fucking retards.

You know you have gone off the rails when republicans are more liberal(in their not accepting of this shit culture) than liberals.

What. In the actual. Fuck.

Alright, I've had it. I've had enough with you fucking humans. When my people come and find me we will nuke you from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Use tailored pandemics because the animals here are cute plz.

[dippinsawse]

I mean if we're talking about things that don't work, let's look back over the last 500 years of conservative thought and figure out how many of their positions stood the test of time. How's the divine right of kings going these days?

Conservativism has been extremely successful throughout history. It's the main reason any society has done well and there's a reason basically every successful group has had similar reserved views about things and the ones that haven't, failed. It created stable families, incentives to work hard and grow, and emphasized unsavory but effective social dynamics. The argument against conservatism isn't that it wasn't successful, it's that many of the views are no longer absolutely necessary with how the world has changed and that is also why I am not conservative.

For example, think about women in the workplace. For a long time there were a ton of problems with women working. It wasn't just sexism against them, society needed women at home to raise the family and women couldn't hold a lot of jobs because of the physical demand and because they would bleed everywhere which was even more of a hazard back then because of poor medical understanding. But now women can work due to scientific advancements and societal changes. We have tampons and daycares and a lot of people who just don't want kids and no pressure on them to have them.

So now we can take a step back and examine the problems that arise from this and address them without just assuming the old ways were best because what made them the best before doesn't necessarily still apply. Conservatives just want women back at home because that was traditionally effective. I disagree with that because it isn't necessary anymore. That is my point, they have good positions that work but bad arguments because now they cant argue why that is still necessary. Progressives want to just ignore nature and say how unfair it is to women. This is why they have good arguments but bad positions because what they want has never worked and won't work. Like...you obviously can't just ignore the problems of women not having kids anymore and families not being treated as essential and encouraged, society would collapse but they only care about making people feel good.

My position is that we should find ways for women to be free to make their own choices and focus on career and not have kids if that is what they want because now I believe there are ways we can still have a functional society around that, but also we need to understand that having stable families is still a natural requirement for our society and species. So we need to think of ways to encourage birth rates and healthy families and hopefully we can do that without forcing women to stay home which I think is absolutely possible....but still hasn't really been addressed after decades of this issue existing which is why conservatives still have an argument.

[Khaza-R]

Yeah, thats cool. Too bad they are 114 years late to the game...

[Lazuli]

We are literally regressing as a society every day thanks to this SJW cancer.

[Traveler Voltin]

is this another its only okay if men are the ones half naked kinda of thing?

[Spectral]

The hijab fetish is one of the odder ones that's popped up as mainstream recently. Islamophilia is weird.

[Themius]

We are literally regressing as a society every day thanks to this SJW cancer.

"We are regressing by accepting other cultures" that's your argument?

[Themius]

What a weird statement to make in this particular situation... You are "defending" a Muslim being "modest" and then shaming people for being conservative and religious rofl.

Your brain must be a fascinating place.

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Pushing modesty again when society already decided that was ridiculous is a regression. It's like if we started censoring people because of the language that they u-

Errr, nevermind. I forgot you guys are fine with regression all around.

If people don't mind being modest what is the problem?

American men often wear shorts instead of speedos or sungas.

[sarahtasher]

Conservativism has been extremely successful throughout history. It's the main reason any society has done well and there's a reason basically every successful group has had similar reserved views about things and the ones that haven't, failed. It created stable families, incentives to work hard and grow, and emphasized unsavory but effective social dynamics. The argument against conservatism isn't that it wasn't successful, it's that many of the views are no longer absolutely necessary with how the world has changed and that is also why I am not conservative.

For example, think about women in the workplace. For a long time there were a ton of problems with women working. It wasn't just sexism against them, society needed women at home to raise the family and women couldn't hold a lot of jobs because of the physical demand and because they would bleed everywhere which was even more of a hazard back then because of poor medical understanding. But now women can work due to scientific advancements and societal changes. We have tampons and daycares and a lot of people who just don't want kids and no pressure on them to have them.

So now we can take a step back and examine the problems that arise from this and address them without just assuming the old ways were best because what made them the best before doesn't necessarily still apply. Conservatives just want women back at home because that was traditionally effective. I disagree with that because it isn't necessary anymore. That is my point, they have good positions that work but bad arguments because now they cant argue why that is still necessary. Progressives want to just ignore nature and say how unfair it is to women. This is why they have good arguments but bad positions because what they want has never worked and won't work. Like...you obviously can't just ignore the problems of women not having kids anymore and families not being treated as essential and encouraged, society would collapse but they only care about making people feel good.

My position is that we should find ways for women to be free to make their own choices and focus on career and not have kids if that is what they want because now I believe there are ways we can still have a functional society around that, but also we need to understand that having stable families is still a natural requirement for our society and species. So we need to think of ways to encourage birth rates and healthy families and hopefully we can do that without forcing women to stay home which I think is absolutely possible....but still hasn't really been addressed after decades of this issue existing which is why conservatives still have an argument.

Then WHY the usual suspects hate salafists ? They are jealous of them ?

[Spectral]

I kinda get the impression that the reason some feminists like this sort of thing is that it makes it harder to tell if a woman has a nice body or not.

[Themius]

Modesty is an outdated notion based on sexism. It's literally just sexism.

Like a woman could walk around and say "I am my husbands property and I'm fine with that " and she would be free to do so.... But society would correctly find that to be fucking ridiculous. At least western society would.

So you want to prat about with sexism when my example literally was men wearing shorts instead of speedos or sungas as an example of modesty?

[Kraenen]

If people don't mind being modest what is the problem?

American men often wear shorts instead of speedos or sungas.

Would you say the same about conservative-grown homosexuals who believe it's a sin? The analogy is pretty clear: person believes in their own self-abnegation due to surrounding social influences. It appears outwardly like they've freely made a choice to be 'modest' and characters on the sidelines are cheering them on because it suits their moral-political agenda.

[dippinsawse]

Then WHY the usual suspects hate salafists ? They are jealous of them ?

What do you mean? Why do conservatives in the US hate certain muslim groups? Obviously they have different views despite being under a similar "conservative" umbrella. And they also have different allegiances and goals which means they have reason to not trust or cooperate with each other because they won't get the same treatment in return.

[Themius]

Would you say the same about conservative-grown homosexuals who believe it's a sin? The analogy is pretty clear: person believes in their own self-abnegation due to surrounding social influences. It appears outwardly like they've freely made a choice to be 'modest' and characters on the sidelines are cheering them on because it suits their moral-political agenda.

Do you believe malls are closed on Sunday in Bergen county so we can worship god and not work The sabbath?

[Themius]

Those aren't examples of modesty, which is why I ignored them outright.

That is an example of modesty though...

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Again these analogies are pure dogshit.

Tell me, what argument was I make in my mall example? I think it went over your head and you don't even have the slightest clue what the argument is because critically thinking is escaping but go ahead, take a stab.