1. #9981
    Regarding the city for high elves, it should be an instanced zone in a district of Stormwind. In much the same way as the rogue class domain in Dalaran.
    It should be remembered that AR zones are instantiated and only for AR.




    I forgot to mention that high elf NPCs have light blue, silvery white (Vereesa) hair colors that blood elves do not have.

    It would be one more option to add to the playable high elves.
    Last edited by Frenchvince; 2019-05-05 at 11:33 AM.

  2. #9982
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It is arrogant. Multiple occasions the developers have said that Blood Elves are High Elves.
    And it the latest "occasion" the developers said that 'high elf customization for void elves' is possible. Also, the developers also said "kul'Tirans are humans"... but we have kul'tirans as a separate race.

    It is therefore arrogant to presume that the pro High Elf community has a superior understanding to the people who created the universe. And note, this includes Chris Metzen.
    So the famous "Red Shirt Guy" really did not have a superior understanding than the people who created the universe?

    That Alliance High Elves exist is true, but they are too small in number (lore reason) and essentially identical to Blood Elves (gameplay reason) to become playable.
    The "lore reason" is just a load of bull considering they added void elves, which are apparently even fewer in number, since they start as small research group that got stuck in the void. As far as "researching how to turn an elf into void elf", I have not found any mention that this research on this process wasn't still on-going. And what stops a blood elf abandon Silvermoon and the Horde and join the high elves again? Blood elves that no longer can take living in the Horde, or follow Lor'themar's commands? And considering the amount of high elves we see around, they do seem to have a decently sized population.

    As for the "gameplay reason", it's also a load of bull, considering void elves share the exact same model save for hairstyles and skin textures. Put on a robe or full armor and you'll be figuring out if it's "friend or foe" by the players' outline/name/health bar color long before you figure out through the very minor body and hair colors. Same thing with the nightborne and night elves.

    "Here’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?
    Same as above: what stops a blood elf leaving Silvermoon and the Horde, and ask to join the high elves? Blood elves that want no part in a Horde that continues to fracture itself, over and over?

    And if you want to play as an Elf who never betrayed the Alliance, you can.
    We can't, because the void elves are blood elves, not high elves.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #9983
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    In regards to the unique skins not available to players on High Elf models, those skins are 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16.

    Skin 12 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
    Skin 13 appears to be the same shade as skin 7.
    Skin 14 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
    Skin 15 appears to be the same shade as skin 2.
    And Skin 16 appears to be the same shade as skin 9.
    Holy stubborness, Batman! I meant skin as the textures, not the skin color. There are several high elf-only skins that differentiate them for in-game purposes. You can tell a high elf apart from a blood elf, and that's a fact. You can identify a neutral high elf and a neutral blood elf, because it's not just about faction. No one calls Valeera a high elf just because she aids the Alliance.

    The playable versions will make the differences even more stark, just like dark irons got new skin tones, more noticiable eyes, tatoo options and glowy beards.

    What is the only difference between these skins and already available Blood Elf skins? The blue eyes, which Blood Elf players such as myself hope will be made available as an option for us once customization is extended for all races (and Ion did heavily hint that separate eye colour would be among the first such customization options offered when it arrives).
    You won't get it, because you play as a blood elf, not a high elf.

    They are the same thing in terms of biology, culture and aesthetics.
    Biology? Kinda, but the blood elves were slightly mutated by magic and high elves weren't.
    Culture and aesthetics? Don't confuse the limitations of art assets for NPCs with what a playable race would get.
    High elf lodges even use night elf architecture, just because Blizzard didn't bother to work on them.
    And high elves have been using Dalaran aesthetics for some time. Every place that uses blood elf buildings are bases built during the Second or Third War. Apart from those.

    Chris Metzen and Ion Hazzikostas have both said Blood Elves are High Elves
    You are twisting their words.
    Specially Chris' words. He uses the high elves as the origin point of the blood elves, but he makes a clear difference between past and present.
    And even Ion reckognizes that they are different in eye color and relationship to magic. Notice both physical and cultural differences.

    You are also representative of the group that is clearly pursuing a pure High Elf aesthetic within the Alliance, rather than the lore, as your posting from that time showed you would have been happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, which of course would have still been a Void Elf. It is ironic you would be happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, but refuse to take the option of playing a High Elf in a Void Elf skin which has been opened since it was confirmed Void Elves can recruit other Elves.
    I won't bother arguing against a strawman.
    It's not up to you to tell me what I want.
    And you call us arrogant!

    They recognise their currently divergent paths, but their paths diverged in the very recent past and has had no time to produce any meaningful difference aside from an eye colour change. And Elisande recognised where the Alliance High Elf path leads, complete assimilation into Human society. When an Alliance High Elf deviates, it is not a cultural innovation as Traycor pretends would happen. It is recognition of 'Human Potential'.

    Behold the future of the few Alliance High Elves who remain.

    https://ibb.co/12mgNzR
    Who cares? Gimme that. You clearly don't value it, but we do.
    If we wanted blood elves on the Alliance, we'd be happy with void elves.
    But we want high elves instead, and that includes them proudly being integrated into the Alliance.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-05 at 01:00 PM.
    Whatever...

  4. #9984
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And it the latest "occasion" the developers said that 'high elf customization for void elves' is possible. Also, the developers also said "kul'Tirans are humans"... but we have kul'tirans as a separate race.
    And has been pointed out often since, that was not a possibility brought up by Blizzard but was brought up instead by the Lost Codex guys. As Ion said 'anything is possible'. For those who want Alliance High Elves, the fact Holinka was nodding along as the Lost Codex guys described Void Elves as filling the 'void where the High Elves are' and then quickly segued from his affirmation that, to paraphrase, 'anything is possible' into a commentary on keeping things civil on the forums...I would find that very discouraging in terms of how the request is perceived.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So the famous "Red Shirt Guy" really did not have a superior understanding than the people who created the universe?
    You mean the incident where one minor NPC was mistaken for another minor NPC? And which, when it was pointed out to Blizzard, they changed? I'm going to make the argument that that is a very different situation in that mixing up two minor NPCs is quite different from mixing up entire races. And when it was pointed out to Blizzard that some people really want Alliance High Elves, they didn't 'fix' the oversight as they did with the two wildhammer dwarves, they restated their position that Blood Elves are High Elves and that Void Elves are an Alliance alternative.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The "lore reason" is just a load of bull considering they added void elves, which are apparently even fewer in number, since they start as small research group that got stuck in the void. As far as "researching how to turn an elf into void elf", I have not found any mention that this research on this process wasn't still on-going. And what stops a blood elf abandon Silvermoon and the Horde and join the high elves again? Blood elves that no longer can take living in the Horde, or follow Lor'themar's commands? And considering the amount of high elves we see around, they do seem to have a decently sized population.
    Nothing stops a Blood Elf defecting to the High Elves. The moment you find an in game example or someone on the dev team saying it's possible is the moment it will stop being merely a hypothesis.

    As for the number of High Elves you see around, given their time and again referenced low population, unless that NPC has a name it is likely you are seeing the same small group of elves moving from zone to zone. Someone guarding Dalaran in Wrath could have been present on the Isle of Thunder in MOP, could have been one of the few to accompany the assault on Suramar and could be one of the two High Elves maintaining the shield aboard the Alliance airship in the warfront.

    We do have implicit in game evidence that Void Elves are converting other Elves into Void Elves, namely the Elves now clustering in Telogrus delighted they can study shadow magic and the fact the in game representation of Void Elf numbers is completely at odds with the tiny group present at the initial event that created them. Coupled with the explicit confirmation from Moorgard in the polygon interview that they can create Void Elves, and the end result is that the lore based argument against Alliance High Elves is not rendered moot by Void Elves. Blizzard can always handwave away Void Elves as being Blood Elves AND High Elves who have joined recently, whereas any Alliance High Elves who dies (or becomes a Void Elf) is pretty much irreplaceable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    As for the "gameplay reason", it's also a load of bull, considering void elves share the exact same model save for hairstyles and skin textures. Put on a robe or full armor and you'll be figuring out if it's "friend or foe" by the players' outline/name/health bar color long before you figure out through the very minor body and hair colors. Same thing with the nightborne and night elves.
    Then I fail to see what your problem is. If the differences are virtually invisible, then dress up in a suit of armour and pretend your Void Elf is a noble High Elf. Or is it because you would know it isn't the real thing that that is an unacceptable answer? Perhaps those of opposed don't feel too aggrieved at Void Elves for the same reason they are unsatisfactory to you, because we know that while a Void Elf may have been a Blood/Alliance High Elf, it no longer is?

    That difference is important in the end.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    We can't, because the void elves are blood elves, not high elves.
    Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Your demand is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the developers. If you accept the developers at face value, that Blood Elves are High Elves, then the absurdity of the request becomes manifest because you admit that the race you seek is already playable. This is of course why there is a refusal to accept this most basic fact, because to accept it is the beginning of understanding as to why Blizzard is so resistant to the idea. So even if there was zero evidence for Alliance High Elves embracing the path of the void, you would still be playing a high elf transformed by the void when playing a void elf.

    Having said that, Moorgard confirmed other Elves can be recruited into being Void Elves. High Elves are actually in Telogrus right now, learning. The Void Elf racial leader, Alleria, skipped the Blood Elf stage when she became a Void Elf albeit a unique kind of Void Elf.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-05-05 at 02:55 PM.

  5. #9985
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    Are you saying the Alliance High Elf stance isn't arrogant?
    Asking for something is not arrogance.
    Pretending to know what others think or can or can't do is.

    That, that is the definition of being arrogant. To hell with lore, to hell with the devs and their stances, to hell with other players thoughts and opinions, give us what we want.
    To hell with lore? You know high elves exist in lore, right? You can see them in-game, you can quest with them. We are not asking for anything that isn't supported by lore.
    To hell with devs and their stances? You know this is a game, and that there's a constant back-and-forth between dev plans and players wishes, right? Devs are not unquestionable gods.
    To hell with other players thoughts and opinions? We just want a new option, we are not taking anything from anyone. No one is losing nothing.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-05 at 02:49 PM.
    Whatever...

  6. #9986
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Blizzard themselves said high elfs would blur faction lines. Or are you going to put your fingers in your ears and pretend they never said that? Sorry bud, but your argument falls flat on your face.
    "in an expansion where the faction conflict is so prominent" there was a desire for them to make Allied Races that were more distinct. Don't put your fingers in your ear and forget the context in which he was speaking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    As shown, the unique skin boils down to eye colour which is the subject of an ongoing request we may see movement on shortly.
    Blood Elves are the original High Elves, they are the evolution and redefinition of what a High Elf is, Warcraft's spin on the High Elf trope.
    If you attempt to cite Alleria, Alleria is no longer a High Elf. She is a Void Elf and has declared herself to be a Void Elf. Even then, all that she has which is unique are tattoos which, given they were available in Warcraft 2, are part of the heritage of the High Elves and which should therefore be available to Blood Elves. Another customization request for the future for Blood Elves.
    And here it is ladies and gentlemen! Obelisk finally throwing the gloves off and outright saying all the brainstorming for High Elves here and elsewhere will just go ahead and go to Blood Elves.

    Even being as ridiculous as citing Alleria's design coming WCII to mean that should also go to Blood Elves when she's got a specifically Alliance aesthetic going on as an Alliance leader.

    This is what I'm talking about, this is how you know when the pro helf arguments are taking an effect.

    Blizzard would be shit-canned to take customization ideas created by and so clearly meant for members of the Alliance and just plant them onto the Blood Elves. This is a straight up nonsensical statement happening right here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    That, that is the definition of being arrogant. To hell with lore, to hell with the devs and their stances, to hell with other players thoughts and opinions, give us what we want.
    As if fans of Sethrak and Gilbins aren't trying to do the similar things that we're doing here. Stop trying to enforce some pristine level of etiquette that fans of High Elves need to abide by or something if they're not doing anything more or less than what other fan race requests are doing.

    The only thing different here is developers responding to and acknowledging the high elf request which allows the fans to then reorganize their requests by working with developer statements.

    Unless you believe that if say Blizzard said something like "Sethrak would have trouble putting helmets on" that Sethrak fans wouldn't be doing what they could to show Blizzard playable Sethrak are possible with a proposed solution to the helmet issue?

    It actually is something that has happened already because other players were saying such a thing, so that group went ahead and showed how it can work.

    Exactly the same as High Elf fans are doing here, so again - don't try to put some extra requirements on this group specifically that isn't being required of other groups. High Elf fans don't all need to be paragons of virtue in order to get their request playable, we just gotta be as respectful about it as any other person.

    If someone starts showing disrespect then it makes sense to not give them the time of day either, "treat others how you wish to be treated" and most High Elf fans aren't the ones to be starting off with saying things like "arrogance".

  7. #9987
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Holy stubborness, Batman! I meant skin as the textures, not the skin color. There are several high elf-only skins that differentiate them for in-game purposes. You can tell a high elf apart from a blood elf, and that's a fact. You can identify a neutral high elf and a neutral blood elf, because it's not just about faction. No one calls Valeera a high elf just because she aids the Alliance.
    The skins are different only in the eye colour they have on them. The skins are player character quality, and housed on the Blood Elf model because High Elves and Blood Elves are the same race.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    The playable versions will make the differences even more stark, just like dark irons got new skin tones, more noticiable eyes, tatoo options and glowy beards.
    The Dark Iron Dwarf model built on differences that were already there. Blood Elves and High Elves are the exact same race in terms of culture, theme and aesthetics. There is nothing to build upon.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    You won't get it, because you play as a blood elf, not a high elf.
    Blood Elves are High Elves, and if eye colour reflects the energy coursing through their body, I as an arcane wielding mage should be able to have blue eyes as much as a Paladin and Priest is able to have golden.



    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Biology? Kinda, but the blood elves were slightly mutated by magic and high elves weren't.
    Culture and aesthetics? Don't confuse the limitations of art assets for NPCs with what a playable race would get.
    High elf lodges even use night elf architecture, just because Blizzard didn't bother to work on them.
    And high elves have been using Dalaran aesthetics for some time. Every place that uses blood elf buildings are bases built during the Second or Third War. Apart from those.
    Blood Elves and High Elves are biologically identical. The Fel tainted changed the energy emitting from their eyes. That fel taint is now being cleansed by the Sunwell, on which both groups feed.
    Culturally and aesthetically they are pretty much identical, except where they are beginning to be assimilated into human culture. Assimilation into humanity is a far cry from the 'wood elf concepts' Traycor put at the start of this thread, which are a dead end because the chances of Blizzard undercutting their actually Wood Elves, the Night Elves, is pretty much zero.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    You are twisting their words.
    Specially Chris' words. He uses the high elves as the origin point of the blood elves, but he makes a clear difference between past and present.
    And even Ion reckognizes that they are different in eye color and relationship to magic. Notice both physical and cultural differences.
    Really? Chris was quite clear that Blood Elves are their twist on High Elves, I don't think he was even considering those few Alliance High Elves who chose exile. Blood Elves are the High Elves of the Warcraft universe, and over ten years later Ion Hazzikostas stood by that. At the end of the day, all you have to go on is the eye colour you continually come back to...and on which Ion promised us contact lenses. We shall see where that goes of course, but the thing is, nobody really thinks Blizzard is going to base an entire Allied race on an eye colour difference. For evidence I cite a.) common sense and b.) the fact that when offered the opportunity to do so they went out of their way to invent Void Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Who cares? Gimme that. You clearly don't value it, but we do.
    If we wanted blood elves on the Alliance, we'd be happy with void elves.
    But we want high elves instead, and that includes them proudly being integrated into the Alliance.
    It is hard to be proudly integrated into the Alliance when the last meaningful interaction between the two was the Blood Elves (who are the High Elves) leaving the Alliance. Void Elves are the variant created to give you a sort of High Elf without undermining the faction distinctiveness of the Horde.
    IF Blizzard decides to take any further action, it will be to either give the Void Elves some High Elf like (not High Elf exact) customization or a Half Elf allied race. The chances of them creating a third thalassian option in the game is incredibly low...and the chances of them creating a fourth so as to balance the Alliance having two bites at thalassian elves whereas the Horde (where the vast, vast majority of the race resides) only having one is even more vanishingly low.

    You fail to appreciate that Blizzard would have to consider a whole slew of additional factors in regards to the creation of a High Elf allied race now because they had one opportunity to do it cleanly, and they created Void Elves instead. As for myself, I focus my opposition entirely on the undermining of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and how it would compromise the integrity of the Horde faction.

    Something not really articulated in this thread, but which you can be sure Blizzard has to factor in, is the impact of playable Alliance High Elves on the position of Void Elves as THE thalassian elves of the Alliance.

  8. #9988
    Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.

  9. #9989
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Having said that, Moorgard confirmed other Elves can be recruited into being Void Elves. High Elves are actually in Telogrus right now, learning. The Void Elf racial leader, Alleria, skipped the Blood Elf stage when she became a Void Elf albeit a unique kind of Void Elf.
    Moorgard literally says in the same quotation, "they're not recruiting" and this is exactly why that piece of information wasn't plastered around media sites. Because he and everyone else besides you it seems understands the way in which a Void Elf came to be. "Seeing if they could replicate the process" doesn't mean "they are able to replicate the process".

    Another case of twisting a developers words to suit your own instead of taking what is said at face value.

  10. #9990
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.
    Because he needs some everyday hobby. Also, I learn more lore here.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  11. #9991
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Because he needs some everyday hobby. Also, I learn more lore here.
    True I suppose. He tends to twist lore to his agenda though, completely ignoring the variety and subfactions the High elves have in the Alliance to try and lump them all as identical to Blood elves.

    If you want to get a deeper understanding of High and Blood elves, check their respective wowpedia page, then check also the Silver Covenant, Quel'danil and Allerian Stronghold pages.

  12. #9992
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    This thread is giving me brain damage
    Run and never look back D':

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.
    I find it interesting to set straight some of the things he mentions because he takes quotes and misrepresents them, when literally in what he quotes it doesn't say what he interprets.

    Even though he has on me ignore so he doesn't get to see my responses until someone quotes them. Then he replies to my post indirectly once he sees it.

    Crazy how some people can be that.....(word that would probably get me banned) silly, let's go with silly.

  13. #9993
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    And has been pointed out often since, that was not a possibility brought up by Blizzard but was brought up instead by the Lost Codex guys. As Ion said 'anything is possible'.
    I'd say "high elf customization for void elves" is included in the "anything". Do you not?

    You mean the incident where one minor NPC was mistaken for another minor NPC? And which, when it was pointed out to Blizzard, they changed? I'm going to make the argument that that is a very different situation in that mixing up two minor NPCs is quite different from mixing up entire races. And when it was pointed out to Blizzard that some people really want Alliance High Elves, they didn't 'fix' the oversight as they did with the two wildhammer dwarves, they restated their position that Blood Elves are High Elves and that Void Elves are an Alliance alternative.
    I'm pretty sure fixing a mix-up between two NPCs can be more quickly be resolved than adding an entire race to the Alliance.

    Nothing stops a Blood Elf defecting to the High Elves. The moment you find an in game example or someone on the dev team saying it's possible is the moment it will stop being merely a hypothesis.
    I don't think I ever claimed it as being anything but?

    As for the number of High Elves you see around, given their time and again referenced low population, unless that NPC has a name it is likely you are seeing the same small group of elves moving from zone to zone.
    Hardly, considering we see big groups at the same time, like, for example, in the quests leading to Zul'Aman.

    Someone guarding Dalaran in Wrath could have been present on the Isle of Thunder in MOP, could have been one of the few to accompany the assault on Suramar and could be one of the two High Elves maintaining the shield aboard the Alliance airship in the warfront.
    I find it a bit hard to consider that idea, as I don't think Dalaran would leave itself unguarded, or barely guarded, at any time.

    We do have implicit in game evidence that Void Elves are converting other Elves into Void Elves, namely the Elves now clustering in Telogrus delighted they can study shadow magic and the fact the in game representation of Void Elf numbers is completely at odds with the tiny group present at the initial event that created them.
    It still doesn't mean they're a group big enough "to be a race" while still disqualifying the high elves on the same grounds. I mean, the original void elf group is just the research team that were banished from Silvermoon. I honestly doubt that a horde of elves suddenly flocked to that group at nearly the same time and asked to be turned into void elves to make them a "viable playable race" in terms of population.

    Then I fail to see what your problem is.
    You don't "fail" to see what our problem is. You just refuse to see it. We don't want blood elves. We want high elves. And void elves? They're blood elves.

    Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Your demand is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the developers.
    But not all high elves are blood elves. And your refusal is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the game's lore itself. The Silver Covenant are not comprised of blood elves. They're high elves. So are the elves in Allerian Stronghold, etc.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  14. #9994
    Give Void Elves High Elf customization option please and let's be done with it.

    Obviously, some High Elf fanatics still won't be happy because it means they can't play their High Elf Paladin, but whatever.

  15. #9995
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Most his posts tend to end in some themed variation of "I know you are but what am I" when the counter arguments he tries gets proven inaccurate.

    Some people can't admit when they're wrong.
    Well to be fair, he's been heavily invested into this topic for more than a year now.

    Admitting that he's wrong would be pretty embarassing after all that time. I just find it amusing that the same spiteful negative nancies are still going hard after so long.

  16. #9996
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grythletubs View Post
    Well to be fair, he's been heavily invested into this topic for more than a year now.

    Admitting that he's wrong would be pretty embarassing after all that time. I just find it amusing that the same spiteful negative nancies are still going hard after so long.
    Why should I admit I am wrong when I am right?

    I have plentiful source material and lead developers to quote in regards to my core statement, that Alliance High Elves cannot become an Allied Race because a.) they are already playable and b.) they would undermine the integrity of the Horde faction.

    Which is a very short summation of what Ion said when asked point blank about Alliance High Elves during the Q and A over a year ago.

    What evidence does the pro High Elf side have to say I am wrong? Nothing really, just a wish things hadn't turned out they way they had.

    Even in the unlikely event that Alliance High Elves were to be added, I would feel no embarrassment for my stance, because everything I am arguing is rooted in the game as it is right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I'd say "high elf customization for void elves" is included in the "anything". Do you not?
    High Elf like customization for Void Elves is something I do not say is impossible, because it clearly isn't and could happen. It is likely what Blizzard would try should they decide to revisit the issue. This is not to say it is an idea I would support, nor is it one I would think would work. I would not support it because it undermines Void Elves, their skin tones are a consequence of their transformation, Alleria excepted because of the unique circumstances she came about her powers and even then Alleria has a dedicated form for when her powers are in full flight. Nor would it work because it still wouldn't be a High Elf and wouldn't have access to the Paladin class. That, and as I regularly point out, nowhere does anyone say 'High Elf exact'. They said 'High Elf like'. If Blizzard were to attempt this, what they end up giving Void Elves maybe pretty far from what was wanted. A classic monkey's paw.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I'm pretty sure fixing a mix-up between two NPCs can be more quickly be resolved than adding an entire race to the Alliance.
    And it was. The point is that the two issues are not equivalent. Attempting to equate the situation over the two wildhammer dwarves, where the developers confused two minor characters, with something far more fundamental such as what a Blood Elf is, is not a credible counter-point yet it is one that is continually brought up again and again with the insinuation that the developers don't know what they are talking about. It's a nonsensical notion that isn't called out often enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't think I ever claimed it as being anything but?
    Yet we have no evidence that it has ever happened. I don't believe there is a single green eyed Elf among the Silver Covenant, nor has a developer in an interview stated that Blood Elves sometimes defect to the Alliance as High Elves. Is it theoretically possible? Sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Hardly, considering we see big groups at the same time, like, for example, in the quests leading to Zul'Aman.
    And canonically Zul'Aman was dealt with by the Horde according to Chronicles. Do you believe those few Elves, and there aren't that many there by the way, are still waiting outside Zul'Aman? Or did they go home to Dalaran once the threat was dealt with, participate in the purge and then in the isle of thunder? If the group is tiny, and we have multiple sources affirming the Alliance High Elf population is miniscule, then the in game representation cited as proving they are actually numerous is best explained by the fact the instances they appear in are separated by time and that in each case, we are more or less looking at the same group of Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I find it a bit hard to consider that idea, as I don't think Dalaran would leave itself unguarded, or barely guarded, at any time.
    Dalaran has it's own military and the Kirin Tor is full of Mages. When the city was assaulted by the Legion at the beginning of Legion, the Kirin Tor led the fightback. I would quote the Mage manga where the Kirin Tor fought against invading blue dragons as well but I am unsure of it's canonicity.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It still doesn't mean they're a group big enough "to be a race" while still disqualifying the high elves on the same grounds. I mean, the original void elf group is just the research team that were banished from Silvermoon. I honestly doubt that a horde of elves suddenly flocked to that group at nearly the same time and asked to be turned into void elves to make them a "viable playable race" in terms of population.
    What it means is that Void Elves cannot 'run out'. You can always handwave another batch if the story requires it. Alliance High Elves cannot replenish their losses as Void Elves can. This is the lore rationale behind no Alliance High Elves, their extremely low population numbers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You don't "fail" to see what our problem is. You just refuse to see it. We don't want blood elves. We want high elves. And void elves? They're blood elves.
    Which brings up the usual two counter-points.

    a.) Blood Elves are High Elves, so if you wish to play an original style thalassian elf, the Horde is waiting for you.

    b.) The confirmation that Alliance High Elves are able to become Void Elves, therefore skipping the entire being a Blood Elf stage. If you cannot stomach the Horde at all, your very own thalassian elf variant unique to your faction is available to you. So loyal to the Alliance they even come in blue.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But not all high elves are blood elves. And your refusal is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the game's lore itself. The Silver Covenant are not comprised of blood elves. They're high elves. So are the elves in Allerian Stronghold, etc.
    Not the strongest counter-point either. That not all High Elves are Blood Elves is irrelevant.. Every race in the game seemingly has a disloyal sub-group people can point at and say they can be added to the other side. The Tauren have the Grimtotem. The Trolls have the Amani. The Humans have the Defias. The Gnomes have the Leper Gnomes. I can go on. The Orcs have the Dragonmaw.
    The option to play a High Elf is available and currently in game. Replicating that option to the other faction is disrespectful both to the Blood Elves and their narrative, as well as the integrity of the Horde faction. A line must be drawn somewhere to maintain the integrity of the factions, and it has been drawn against Alliance High Elves.

  17. #9997
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Why should I admit I am wrong when I am right?
    Damn, not even talking about you Obelisk in that exchange, but Syegfred. Oh boi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Even in the unlikely event that Alliance High Elves were to be added, I would feel no embarrassment for my stance, because everything I am arguing is rooted in the game as it is right now.
    It's good to acknowledge the possibility it happens at least. This last bolded bit is nonsensical though.

    The entire premise of advocating for playable race options comes from the desire to have something that isn't "rooted in the game as it is right now".

    What you're basically is saying is that players can't ask for any changes because they have to go by "how the game is right now". When every change desired in history stems from not being content with the "right now".

    Incredibly out of touch statement to make, unless someone is a total yes man to everything the WoW developers put into the game. Something tells me that isn't the case, but like I said (with proof), some people just don't expose themselves to a certain subject anymore once they're proven wrong and just quiet themselves.

    As was the case with the addition of Nightborne.

  18. #9998
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yet we have no evidence that it has ever happened.
    Which is why it's called an hypothesis. You even correctly called it as such. Do I need to list dictionary definitions?

    And canonically Zul'Aman was dealt with by the Horde according to Chronicles. Do you believe those few Elves, and there aren't that many there by the way, are still waiting outside Zul'Aman? Or did they go home to Dalaran once the threat was dealt with, participate in the purge and then in the isle of thunder? If the group is tiny, and we have multiple sources affirming the Alliance High Elf population is miniscule, then the in game representation cited as proving they are actually numerous is best explained by the fact the instances they appear in are separated by time and that in each case, we are more or less looking at the same group of Elves.
    Considering Dalaran guards and Silver Covenant rangers are not one and the same.. I don't think they are. And let me tell you that this assumption of yours is equally valid if we turn them toward the void elves: who's to say that 'rando VE #37' you see walking around Stormwind isn't the same 'rando VE' you meet while questing in Kul'Tiras/Zandalar?

    Dalaran has it's own military and the Kirin Tor is full of Mages. When the city was assaulted by the Legion at the beginning of Legion, the Kirin Tor led the fightback. I would quote the Mage manga where the Kirin Tor fought against invading blue dragons as well but I am unsure of it's canonicity.
    You were the one who implied that Dalaran would send its guards to fight.

    What it means is that Void Elves cannot 'run out'. You can always handwave another batch if the story requires it.
    So we can with high elves. Blizzard could "handwave" another group into existence, or "handwave" their numbers. It wouldn't be their first time either. "Handwave". It's basically the more polite version of "asspull".

    a.) Blood Elves are High Elves
    But not all high elves are blood elves. There you go, ignoring 'inconvenient facts' again.

    b.) The confirmation that Alliance High Elves are able to become Void Elves, therefore skipping the entire being a Blood Elf stage.
    So why are you against adding high elf customization to the void elves?

    Not the strongest counter-point either. That not all High Elves are Blood Elves is irrelevant..
    So you're "handwaving" 'inconvenient facts' away?

    It is relevant because high elves as a separate faction, opposite to blood elves, and as part of the Alliance, already exist. The only thing that we're asking... is that they're made playable.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  19. #9999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Give Void Elves High Elf customization option please and let's be done with it.

    Obviously, some High Elf fanatics still won't be happy because it means they can't play their High Elf Paladin, but whatever.
    But then... they won't be Void Elves... ?

  20. #10000
    Quote Originally Posted by FaceYourself View Post
    But then... they won't be Void Elves... ?
    Alleria is still a Void Elf while her regular form is High Elven. She isn't constantly purple either.

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