Healthcare costs in the USA...

[kail]

Hmm you mean one of the jobs that pays less than they did 30 years ago?

And if you don't have good insurance and not enough money...die?

Die, live with a disease, make your own splint for that broken arm, or learn to breath with very short breaths.

Survival of the fittest is the way we should operate in a first world country (according to some).

[Shockzalot]

I have Blue Cross Blue Shield through the Federal employee program, I visited the ER for kidney stones and paid $150 and the bill was near 5k. The CTI scan itself was 3k.

[Vash The Stampede]

Lots of doctors are no longer accepting medicare/medicaid as well. Probably cause a long line a bureaucratic nonsense is between doctors and patients.

The relationship Doctors have with insurance is always a game where Doctors want to get paid as much as they can while insurance companies want to pay them as little as they can. This is why you see insane prices for simple things like a sling for a broken arm will cost thousands, because Doctors and Hospitals will raise the price to insane levels as a negotiation tactic against insurance companies. If a Doctor doesn't except insurance it's because the insurance is low balling their offer, not because of bureaucratic nonsense. This is why we need a total public Medicare for all because America will set the price not Doctors and insurance companies.

[Themius]

I have Blue Cross Blue Shield through the Federal employee program, I visited the ER for kidney stones and paid $150 and the bill was near 5k. The CTI scan itself was 3k.

Other places a scan is a couple hundred

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Hey if it pays less than 30 years ago it still pays more than sitting in moms basement complaining about it... just sayin..

But not enough to survive.

Wages are down.

Cost of living is up.

Cost of health care is up.

Cost of insurance is up.

So the "same profession" can end up with you screwed.

The only jobs that kept up with real spending is tech. Other than that everyone else hasn't.

What if you're working making 40k a year but the cost of living is too high to maintain insurance and you have debt because you went to college?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Other places a scan is a couple hundred

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But not enough to survive.

Wages are down.

Cost of living is up.

Cost of health care is up.

Cost of insurance is up.

So the "same profession" can end up with you screwed.

The only jobs that kept up with real spending is tech. Other than that everyone else hasn't.

What if you're working making 40k a year but the cost of living is too high to maintain insurance and you have debt because you went to college?

I went though it. Even got a pretty bad injury during it and its back when parents insurance went away at a much younger age. Know what I did? Went into further dept. I lived in a shitter apartment with roommates. I had a shitty car. I ate instant noodles. I didn't have cable, high speed internet, gaming pc's, ps4, 55 inch tv's, big ass cell phones and cell bills. I went without many conforts but I grinded it out. I got the student and medical debt paid down. I refinanced them when I had trouble. But I kept grinding. Eventually a few years went by and medical was paid. Student loan was low enough to let me get my own place. Fuck, I built an outstanding credit score out of all of this and learned a lot about managing money, moving money around, and took advantage of the situation. Mind you this whole time as you keep pointing out wages were down. Costs were up. But I grinded. When I was done grinding I grinded some more. Guess what that shit is behind me now and I got a house, toys, loving wife and kids. Guess what all those things take money, debt, and unplanned expenses in a world, like you said, wages are down in and costs are going up in. It doesn't end. Get to grinding or get to dying. If someone has a condition that doesnt allow it I feel for them and I dont mind a safety net for them. But just because someone feels they might have to work in a world not working for them.. all I can say is fuck those people.. just was waste to the world and society. The world doesnt work for many if any. Get to grinding or get to dying.

[Themius]

I went though it. Even got a pretty bad injury during it and its back when parents insurance went away at a much younger age. Know what I did? Went into further dept. I lived in a shitter apartment with roommates. I had a shitty car. I ate instant noodles. I didn't have cable, high speed internet, gaming pc's, ps4, 55 inch tv's, big ass cell phones and cell bills. I went without many conforts but I grinded it out. I got the student and medical debt paid down. I refinanced them when I had trouble. But I kept grinding. Eventually a few years went by and medical was paid. Student loan was low enough to let me get my own place. Fuck, I built an outstanding credit score out of all of this and learned a lot about managing money, moving money around, and took advantage of the situation. Mind you this whole time as you keep pointing out wages were down. Costs were up. But I grinded. When I was done grinding I grinded some more. Guess what that shit is behind me now and I got a house, toys, loving wife and kids. Guess what all those things take money, debt, and unplanned expenses in a world, like you said, wages are down in and costs are going up in. It doesn't end. Get to grinding or get to dying. If someone has a condition that doesnt allow it I feel for them and I dont mind a safety net for them. But just because someone feels they might have to work in a world not working for them.. all I can say is fuck those people.. just was waste to the world and society. The world doesnt work for many if any. Get to grinding or get to dying.

This sounds like a a lot of bs.

"I had it hard and made it with cards stacked against me so having such a shit situation is normal to me and everyone who isn't like me can fuck off and die"

[Low Hanging Fruit]

This sounds like a a lot of bs.

"I had it hard and made it with cards stacked against me so having such a shit situation is normal to me and everyone who isn't like me can fuck off and die"

I guess thats you flicking your king over on the board. I accept your surrender humbly. Because once someone bends to mockery the game is up.

[Themius]

I guess thats you flicking your king over on the board. I accept your surrender humbly. Because once someone bends to mockery the game is up.

That’s not mockery. That is quite literally your argument. If you find your own argument to be mockery. Find a new argument.

[Zan15]

If you're curious what almost $1200 of durable medical equipment looks like, THIS is what it does. Got a invoice from the surgeon today when I got home I had the invoice for my splint and that's what they billed the insurance. All I can say is thank God for insurance! For those curious I had surgery on Wed to have the styloid process on my left ulna removed after it broke off & became detached and then a scope on the wrist to remove any fragments along with repair & reattachment of ligaments on my arm.

[IMG]

Ouches.

Well "that is what they billed insurance"

So its really not 1200 worth of DME. Would love to know what they actually "allowed" in total, I bet its somewhere way south of 1200.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

That’s not mockery. That is quite literally your argument. If you find your own argument to be mockery. Find a new argument.

Why reteat into the "its not me its you". Cute. I will pick up the pieces you are throwing around the room in a tantrum and ignore you going forward.

But remember, get to grinding to get to dying.

[Ragu4]

All healthcare around the world is bad. Either pay a bunch or wait forever, your choice. Or both now that I think about it. RIP.

[Zan15]

Insurance is amazing, especially employer provided. I had a $27,000 surgery in 2015. Tore every lateral ligament in my ankle off my bone. Go big I guess lol. Paid $25 out of pocket. Crazy that the boot alone would have been $350 and tens unit was $900.

Well technically your cost is your premium (since inception pro rated by incident) + 25 dollars out of pocket.

:P

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Lots of doctors are no longer accepting medicare/medicaid as well. Probably cause a long line a bureaucratic nonsense is between doctors and patients.

LOL there is not a lot of relative "bureaucratic nonsense" when it comes to Medicare/Medicaid vs the private sector....its just much lower reimbursements and doctors are after every dime they can get. Especially Medicaid. Medicare actually allows a large amount of freedom for the doctor when it comes to deciding what services are ordered/allowed.

[Themius]

Why reteat into the "its not me its you". Cute. I will pick up the pieces you are throwing around the room in a tantrum and ignore you going forward.

But remember, get to grinding to get to dying.

You made an argument that was "I had cards dealt against me and has a shitty start with tons of debt but I made it and If you can't you can fuck off and die!"

That's your argument, own it.

Throwing a tantrum lol, I'm throwing something and it is your own argument into your face, don't like what you see? Make a new argument.

[Software]

Last time I went to the hospital I had to go to the ER. Was in surgery 2 hours later. Hospital tried to gouge me. First they tried to say I didn't have insurance, which could have been an error but OK. Then they tried to bill my post OP as inpatient. Billing comes by before I leave and they want to hit me with like $10k for getting some morphine in the ER and waiting to be wheeled to surgery, which to the props of the medical staff happened really fast (surgery was an emergency but I could have been triaged). They bill me about $45k for surgery and services.

Insurance says fuck that, that surgery doesn't cost that much and he wasn't even there that long nor had complications. Stay got reduced to simple outpatient and observation, much less. I ended up having to pay $800 out of pocket, no deductible, when I ready (as long as I'm with my same insurance provider).

I go to do a follow up. Office tries to hit with $100 to be seen for less than 5 min. Could have just went urgent care and had them look at my surgical site. Insurance said that's bullshit, I said it was bullshit, office waived the fee. I got that shit in writing

Medical system is fucked right now with people trying to cash in on accepted gouging. People trying to pass unpaid bills onto others. People who can't pay because of gouging. People who as well remain uninsured because the government isn't regulating insurance companies. It's all hell.

You should vote for people who implement laws to protect you where you live...

[Zan15]

I broke my arm and it cost 25 bucks and was done with the whole thing in an afternoon. Get good insurance. No money? Get a job.

Cost way more than 25 dollars when you factor in the years of paying premiums and lost wages from your employer having to pay their portion of the premiums.

[Hammerschlag]

The issue with healthcare in the United States is the entire insurance system. Do you use your Auto Insurance for oil changes, new tires, or any sort of maintenance? No. It is *insurance*. Used for unforeseen events, like car accidents, injury, property damage. Health Insurance in the United States is NOT *insurance*, it's more of a health plan.

The reason everything costs so much in the industry is because everyone knows they can just charge the insurance companies ludicrous amounts of money(see Martin Shkreli issue). What needs to happen is for the government to enact a new plan of laws where health insurance has to be completely revamped and in-line with how auto insurance works, for reference. Normal doctor visits, check-ups, etc should be entirely out of pocket.

You might say, "well now I can't afford that". No. What will happen is the market will correct itself, doctors will need to make money so they will adjust prices. It will be a free market like any other. Cheaper doctors, more expensive ones. But overall healthcare prices will become much more affordable and accessible to lower incomes. **Additionally**, not only will Health Insurance not be necessary, but will be much, much cheaper to have in case of injury, sickness, or disease.

[Themius]

Cost way more than 25 dollars when you factor in the years of paying premiums and lost wages from your employer having to pay their portion of the premiums.

things brings up a very important point.

Wages could potentially be higher if employers weren't paying so much for private health insurance. Imagine is people were paid more due to employers not paying insurance and then lower tax burden if we were able to get spending on health to be within the average of 10% down 7% from where it is now. That would be tremendous.

But that's evil socialism.

[Zan15]

The issue with healthcare in the United States is the entire insurance system. Do you use your Auto Insurance for oil changes, new tires, or any sort of maintenance? No. It is *insurance*. Used for unforeseen events, like car accidents, injury, property damage. Health Insurance in the United States is NOT *insurance*, it's more of a health plan.

The reason everything costs so much in the industry is because everyone knows they can just charge the insurance companies ludicrous amounts of money(see Martin Shkreli issue). What needs to happen is for the government to enact a new plan of laws where health insurance has to be completely revamped and in-line with how auto insurance works, for reference. Normal doctor visits, check-ups, etc should be entirely out of pocket.

You might say, "well now I can't afford that". No. What will happen is the market will correct itself, doctors will need to make money so they will adjust prices. It will be a free market like any other. Cheaper doctors, more expensive ones. But overall healthcare prices will become much more affordable and accessible to lower incomes. **Additionally**, not only will Health Insurance not be necessary, but will be much, much cheaper to have in case of injury, sickness, or disease.

No but I brought extended warranty insurance that covers almost every major thing that can go wrong with my car.
did that drive up prices for auto repair?


Anyway back to the topic. Having people pay out of pocket for normal doctors, well care visits, yearly exams...etc ends up with them not going. It then relates so significantly higher rates of health problems in the future because they did not catch early what could have been an easy fix.


Also the inverse of what you say will happen. They will actually revert to charging the people whom can afford the services more not charging the people who cannot afford it less.

[Hammerschlag]

No but I brought extended warranty insurance that covers almost every major thing that can go wrong with my car.
did that drive up prices for auto repair?


Anyway back to the topic. Having people pay out of pocket for normal doctors, well care visits, yearly exams...etc ends up with them not going. It then relates so significantly higher rates of health problems in the future because they did not catch early what could have been an easy fix.


Also the inverse of what you say will happen. They will actually revert to charging the people whom can afford the services more not charging the people who cannot afford it less.

That's not how it works at all. The market would correct itself or sole practitioners, or medical groups wouldn't make any money at all.

[Zan15]

That's not how it works at all. The market would correct itself or sole practitioners, or medical groups wouldn't make any money at all.

That's exactly how it works. Its laughable at best that you think there would be any kind of medical cost deflation. If anything there would be a substantial slowdown in the cost curve at best.

After working in insurance and managing/auditing/consulting for physician practices I can tell you that is exactly what the vast majority will do.

What will also happen is you will have an even bigger shift to specialties that would be covered under your plan, from PCP/IM and the shortage problem would explode. Then the shortage would generate a greater demand than the supply and prices would rise.

Only way this gets fixed if Medicare for All happens and covers 95% of the population and rates are regulated.