1. #20421
    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    Its not at all the investigation innto Trump have made money link a source that says otherwise.
    Nobody sane counts that way (investigations are not tasked with making money and there are good reasons why). This is just a stupid soundbite created by the media which gets parroted by those who oppose Trump because they like it.

  2. #20422
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Nobody sane counts that way (investigations are not tasked with making money and there are good reasons why). This is just a stupid soundbite created by the media which gets parroted by those who oppose Trump because they like it.
    They aren't but when you find no crimes and burn through money even launching multiple investigation despite that fact it reflects poorly. I also didn't bring up cost republicans did originally than back off like bitches when the numbers didn't line up. If you mad at the mueller investigation cost stfu it made money. You should be mad at the gop wasting everyones time investigating hillary with no idictments or profits. They got nothing from those investigation for the american people as a whole.

    They get a pass on first investigation but doing it multiple times while constantly finding nothing and passing out immunity like candy should have cost them elections.
    Last edited by Varvara Spiros Gelashvili; 2019-05-05 at 04:07 PM.
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  3. #20423
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Because when you spend several tens of millions and two years, you are bound to find something. Especially if you count things like "I think you lied to me some time ago when I was doing my investigation". If the Mueller team were investigating your company employees / your university or wherever you are, they would have found tons of various things. Just not conspiracy with Russia.

    The last sentence is a repeat of a stupid meme and I said why earlier, but whatever.

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    By the way, it is telling that nobody so far contested my #21293 that Micch's #21256 is basically correct other than "you are a Russian troooool not talking to you huhuhu". Well, maybe later.
    one of the few times "but Hillary" is a reasonable response but I digress


    But Hillary's investigation on bengazi is by most estimated between $20 million to $30 million(and thats just the bengazi bs, not the almost 30 years of other investigations)
    and NOTHING WAS FOUND, or in the language of your people #NOCRIME#NOLOCKINGHERUP

    ok, you may go back to your bullshit to justify your watercarrying

  4. #20424
    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    one of the few times "but Hillary" is a reasonable response but I digress


    But Hillary's investigation on bengazi is by most estimated between $20 million to $30 million(and thats just the bengazi bs, not the almost 30 years of other investigations)
    and NOTHING WAS FOUND, or in the language of your people #NOCRIME#NOLOCKINGHERUP

    ok, you may go back to your bullshit to justify your watercarrying
    That might not be a bad point. I guess I don't know enough of Benghazi investigations to comment one way or the other. I remember the FBI being very friendly to her multiple times at critical points, but how universal that was is hard to say. Need to read more.

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    Actually, I may have an example of something found during Benghazi - her emails. It's right there staring us in the eye. The investigation was about one thing. And in the process it found a different thing. That different thing had a big effect. So, I guess my point stands sans indictments. As in, when you are digging hard, you are going to find something.

  5. #20425
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Or am I missing anything? Is this, for example:

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-investigation

    ...a good summary of who got charged for what?
    To have even a basic grasp of the issue, here, one has to recognize that "collusion" is not a specific crime.
    http://time.com/5506815/collusion-cr...e-trump-cohen/

    It's a blanket term the media came up with to describe a category of crimes, regarding unlawful connections to and interactions with Russian government representatives by campaign staffers or members. So anyone making the case of "but none of those charges are "collusion" is being dishonest, right out of the gate, because they're lying about what the charges that represent "collusion" would be.

    So let's go through the list, shall we? In the order as presented in Buzzfeed.

    Papadopoulos.
    Charged with lying to the FBI about communications regarding Russians having "dirt" on Clinton. This might not qualify as collusion itself, but it's about collusion at the very least, so it's collusion-adjacent. We also know he tried to set up meetings between the Trump campaign and Russian representatives, which was attempted collusion, he just failed at it.

    Manafort. Charges have to do with failing to pay taxes on foreign earnings (not collusion), and failing to report is foreign work to the US government. Which could represent collusion.

    Gates. Same kinds of charges as Manafort, plus conspiracy against the USA, so there's the collusion connection, much clearer that Manafort.

    Flynn. Not sentenced yet, but plead guilty to lying to the FBI. About contacts with the Russian ambassador. Which makes it collusion.

    van der Zwaan. Not American, but he was a middle man in the collusion with Manafort and Gates, so he's tied into that collusion.

    Internet Research Agency. Along with a bunch of other Russian agents, all charged with communications with various campaign officials and other political groups. This is Russians attempt collusion, but still applies.

    Pinedo. Charge of identity fraud. Was running a company to help people avoid security at Paypal, which Russians charged with election interference made use of. At best, he was used to engage in collusion, even if he personally was unaware.

    Klimnik. Conspiring with Manafort to tamper with witnesses. Klimnik is suspected of being tied to Russian intelligence. Still, regardless, collusion; the question is how direct the tie to Russia specifcially is, not whether this involved collusion.

    Netyshko et al. Russian intelligent agents, orchestrating hacks of the DNC and Podesta and releasing the emails to screw with the election. The Mueller investigation did not make direct connections to other campaign staffers, but let's be clear on this; Trump publicly called for Russia to do this, himself, personally. And Mueller took any accusations against Trump directly off the table for this report, not because they lack merit, but because of DOJ policy about indicting a sitting President. With Trump, it'd be collusion.

    Cohen. Bunch of financial charges, but also lying to Congress about Trump Tower plans in Moscow, the latter of which amounted to collusion.

    Stone. Lying to congress about contacts with Wikileaks, and witness tampering. The connections to Wikileaks would amount to collusion, but these charges are being fought.

    So I'm really not seeing how you see all this and brag "NO COLLUSION". The only way that makes sense is if you have no clue what "collusion" refers to, here, or you're deliberately trying to bullshit your way past the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evielution93 View Post
    This line of logic fucking baffles me. "We found multiple crimes relating to the investigation, enough that many other investigations have been opened to make sure we can actually give them all the proper attention they need." "Yeah but it wasn't this one crime, sorry sweaty."

    Not even going into the fact that the investigation made money.
    They've got few cards left to play, lying about what "collusion" means is one of the only tactics left.


  6. #20426
    Endus, stop writing about collusion. Do I write about collusion, as in, not-a-crime? No. I mean strictly that form that is a crime. I think the word for that is conspiracy.

    I am going to read your big post now, but that's the first quick note.

    - - - Updated - - -

    OK, read through the post. Gates conspiracy is financial, cross that off. Kilimnik's conspiracy is about making witnesses lie, cross that off. Trump publicly calling Russia to hack Hillary is laughable as proof of conspiracy, this does not even have to be crossed off, this is a non-starter. There is just nothing. Apart from unfinished investigations.

    Exactly like I said. Michh is right. QED

  7. #20427
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    That might not be a bad point. I guess I don't know enough of Benghazi investigations to comment one way or the other. I remember the FBI being very friendly to her multiple times at critical points, but how universal that was is hard to say. Need to read more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually, I may have an example of something found during Benghazi - her emails. It's right there staring us in the eye. The investigation was about one thing. And in the process it found a different thing. That different thing had a big effect. So, I guess my point stands sans indictments. As in, when you are digging hard, you are going to find something.
    and both congress(lets be honest here, the GOP) and the FBI found nothing there either, and unlike with "DOES NOT EXONERATE" that the mueller report had, even after Trump got in office and put Sessions there,
    STILL NOTHING, didnt reopen it(despite Trumps endless mean girl tweets at Sessions)

    and "very friendly at points" is laughable, so friendly we knew she was being investigated, but didnt have a clue that Trump was also till AFTER the election

  8. #20428
    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    and "very friendly at points" is laughable, so friendly we knew she was being investigated, but didnt have a clue that Trump was also till AFTER the election
    They let the employee who deleted correspondence after the moment that correspondence was being inquired for pretend that this is OK because the deletion was "actually" planned earlier and he just did not finish it the way he should. This was insane. And that's just one example.

  9. #20429
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    They let the employee who deleted correspondence after the moment that correspondence was being inquired for pretend that this is OK because the deletion was "actually" planned earlier and he just did not finish it the way he should. This was insane. And that's just one example.
    again, neither Sessions, and now, nor Barr, are bothering reopening it, and they both were and are being pushed to do so by the GOP members in congress, their base of voters and Trump

    but for all their flaws, even they aren't willing to start up some kangaroo court trial that would crash and burn in full view of the public

  10. #20430
    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    They aren't but when you find no crimes and burn through money even launching multiple investigation despite that fact it reflects poorly. I also didn't bring up cost republicans did originally than back off like bitches when the numbers didn't line up. If you mad at the mueller investigation cost stfu it made money. You should be mad at the gop wasting everyones time investigating hillary with no idictments or profits. They got nothing from those investigation for the american people as a whole.
    They could have gotten something there too if FBI would not pass immunities like candy.

  11. #20431
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Well, the Senate hearing with the Democrat's reactions to Barr, reminded me of a scene of a pack of dogs attacking a Grizzly bear and getting their asses kicked.
    Yes, it was a thing of beauty, Barr looked like the only sane person in the room.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    A pack of dogs would kill a bear.
    You have said some crazy stuff but this takes the cake, have you actually ever seen a bear?

  12. #20432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    You have said some crazy stuff but this takes the cake, have you actually ever seen a bear?
    Not to derail too much further then this thread's already been, but using pack dogs to hunt bears has kind of been a go-to method for centuries.

    At least until modern hunting rifles became more popular, I'll add.
    Last edited by Xyonai; 2019-05-05 at 07:10 PM.

  13. #20433
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Not to derail too much further then this thread's already been, but using pack dogs to hunt bears has kind of been a go-to method for centuries.

    At least until modern hunting rifles became more popular, I'll add.
    Off-topic but yeah this absolutely was a thing!!! Granted the point was to tired out the bear with the dogs then kill it but sometimes the dogs had to attack it if the bear wasn't going to flee and the dogs needed to defend themselves. There are many Russian bred dogs designed specifically to hunt bears like the Caucasian Mountain dog.

  14. #20434
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Because when you spend several tens of millions and two years, you are bound to find something. Especially if you count things like "I think you lied to me some time ago when I was doing my investigation". If the Mueller team were investigating your company employees / your university or wherever you are, they would have found tons of various things. Just not conspiracy with Russia.

    The last sentence is a repeat of a stupid meme and I said why earlier, but whatever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way, it is telling that nobody so far contested my #21293 that Micch's #21256 is basically correct other than "you are a Russian troooool not talking to you huhuhu". Well, maybe later.
    Right, so if you're bound to find something, what did the investigations into Hillary and her buttery males find again?

    Also, if someone is acting in a criminal investigation, and you lie to them, then that's a crime. Like...you realise that, right? False Statements is, in fact, a punishable offence in most jurisdictions.

    And YOU say it's a stupid meme. YOU say it doesn't matter because that's not what the investigations were supposed to do. But when they end up with a net profit, that is, by definition, not a waste of money. And when they do it seizing asset's of a criminal, that's double not a waste of money. Your only response that I've ever read to that is "No it's not shut up!"

  15. #20435
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Who said anything about the Mueller investigation, Trump has been named as a conspirator you can try to change the subject but Trump is a corrupt POS who surrounded himself with convicted felons, domestic abuser, someone who covered up for a pedophile ring, etc etc. This administration has had more resignation due to ethics and crime than any other in history feel free to stick your head in the sand but the truth is you love the swamp.
    Isn't this thread about the investigation? But as you said, it is my opinion. You are free to believe whatever you wish.
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  16. #20436
    It's looking more and more like the only thing keeping Trump out of prison is being president.

    Really shines a light on how bad our checks and balances are in government that it's been allowed to go this far.

  17. #20437
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Isn't this thread about the investigation? But as you said, it is my opinion. You are free to believe whatever you wish.
    Of course be sure to keep pretending that if he had a D in front of his name you wouldn't be screaming about the criminal slime he has brought to the white house.

  18. #20438
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  19. #20439
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Because when you spend several tens of millions and two years, you are bound to find something. Especially if you count things like "I think you lied to me some time ago when I was doing my investigation". If the Mueller team were investigating your company employees / your university or wherever you are, they would have found tons of various things. Just not conspiracy with Russia.

    The last sentence is a repeat of a stupid meme and I said why earlier, but whatever.
    Yeah, they found more than just lying, but then again why would so many of these people be willing to lie for Trump? Have you thought of that?

    Also, you've ignored plenty of posts from others that rip your argument apart in one way or another, so don't go thinking that people ignoring another post of yours means anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    It's looking more and more like the only thing keeping Trump out of prison is being president.

    Really shines a light on how bad our checks and balances are in government that it's been allowed to go this far.
    Pretty much this, had he not been president he'd already be in court for the last month testifying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    When you know you're innocent, but also that you did a bunch of shady shit that is illegal and you don't want people finding out.

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  20. #20440
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    there are days that I do wonder if he knows all caps is the text equivalent of shouting, cause if you ever heard anyone suddenly screaming that, "That man is innocent" aint a thought you'd have afterward

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