Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[eschatological]

The one in Loki’s staff is the yellow stone from Vision’s head. The blue was from the outer casing that was protecting the yellow stone inside.

Where is the pink one from, then? I've had a hard time tracing all these stones through their movies.

Red: Thor 2 and the whole dark elves bullshit
Purple: Guardians of the Galaxy and all that
Blue: Red Skull and Captain America storyline, got buried in the water for a few decades at the end of Captain America?
Yellow: Always been in Loki's staff til it was in Vision's head
Green: Dr. Strange, Sorcerer Supreme arc.

Soul gem: Was this the pink one? I don't remember. Always been guarded on that remote planet. Why did I think this one was the yellow one?

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Goddamn people are so critical of Time-Travel Plots as if we have actual Real-life Time-Travel to compare it to factually. You arguing about how their Time Travel doesn't work but X movies Time Travel does is just inane.

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How could you not notice they were different, when Loki had his Staff whilst hunting down the Tessaract in Avengers?

idk, because they were both blue? I'm not that invested in the MCU, for what it's worth.

[Goldielocks]

To be honest, I didn't even know til this movie that the square blue one (space stone?) and the one in Loki's staff (mind stone?) were different. They both glow blue, but one is actually a light pink color when it's on the gauntlet?

That was most likely due to a retcon. The staff was "supposedly powered by the cube" but when AoU was written the mind stone was put inside it because the staff's powers were warping minds, making a convenient plot tie in. I don't think the staff was originally intended to have the stone because why the fuck would Thanos give it away? It makes no sense.

[Super Kami Dende]

idk, because they were both blue? I'm not that invested in the MCU, for what it's worth.

I don't think you even need to be invested in it to realise that 2 separate objects are separate objects. Like seriously you are in this thread arguing points yet say you aren't invested?

[eschatological]

I don't think you even need to be invested in it to realise that 2 separate objects are separate objects. Like seriously you are in this thread arguing points yet say you aren't invested?

I mean, I'm a movie nerd, and I've seen all the movies, but my interest is more in characters and storytelling and actual film-making. The convoluted plot points were not really anything I cared about beyond the broad storytelling strokes they were painting. All the points I was "arguing" were about the actual mechanics of the film, and trying to figure out the beats of this time travel plot.

No, but seriously, the soul stone is the pink one?

[SinR]

I thought Soul was Orange

[eschatological]

I thought Soul was Orange

Hmmmmmmm.......looking at pictures, it seems the one I thought was pink is the purple one in various lighting.

Alright, that makes more sense, and why I thought soul was yellow.

[SinR]

There is no Pink Stone.

Or cow level

[Ielenia]

The girl power scene exists to fuck with people that need to bitch about it. While it was obvious as hell, didn't bother me at all.

My issue with that scene is that, despite looking cool, it felt... forced and contrived, from a narrative perspective, for three main reasons:
1. Why did none of the male super-heroes join in on that moment? Were they "too busy" to help ensure the most powerful artifact in the entire universe reached the Quantum portal?
2. What were the female super-heroes doing until then? It felt like they were just... kind of waiting for the perfect 'group shot' moment.
3. It's Captain-friggin'-Marvel! She could easily have dealt with that entire army or at the very least just fly harmlessly through them without even breaking a sweat! I mean, look at her 'grand entrance' into the fight: she took an entire salvo of deadly shots from a spaceship, to the face... then flew through said spaceship, twice, without even getting a scratch. A bunch of grunt soldiers with guns and some tanks would do nothing to her. In other words: the other heroines' presence was unnecessary, and completely wasted, when they could've be doing something actually badass like saving the male heroes' bacon as they slowly got overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of the army.

[eschatological]

The male heroes were doing what we expect them to do: killing folks. Thor and Cap and Iron Man all had Thanos engaged. Hawkeye, Spidey and BP had literally all just failed to carry the gauntlet very far. Ant-Man was hotwiring the van. Dr. Strange was holding up a broken dam or something.

[Ophenia]

3. It's Captain-friggin'-Marvel! She could easily have dealt with that entire army or at the very least just fly harmlessly through them without even breaking a sweat! I mean, look at her 'grand entrance' into the fight: she took an entire salvo of deadly shots from a spaceship, to the face... then flew through said spaceship, twice, without even getting a scratch. A bunch of grunt soldiers with guns and some tanks would do nothing to her. In other words: the other heroines' presence was unnecessary, and completely wasted, when they could've be doing something actually badass like saving the male heroes' bacon as they slowly got overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of the army.

No, she definitely needed Mantis, spear-holding Okoye and pew-pew-Shuri to survive on the battlefield !

[Skulltaker]

I addressed this in my post.

Remember, according to Strange, Endgame is the ONLY way they win, so defeating Thanos and reversing the universal genocide absolutely will entail making more schism worlds with the Quantum Realm. If they simply repeat the events of Endgame, they have created more schism worlds to try for more failures, because the events of Endgame-B necessitate the creation of 2013-C, 2012-C, and so on.

You can posit that they will succeed every single time but this is extremely unlikely, given that Strange suggested they are defeated in virtually every possible permutation of events.

Yes, but Strange didn't see different timelines, he saw different outcomes for 'our' timeline. Each other timeline has their own 14 million something possible outcomes for themselves. The thing with infinity is that you can have infinite infinities. It's a hard concept to grasp, since the human mind doesn't deal with infinity that well. Many people struggle with the one of the easiest concepts of infinity that we can apply, namely that there are as many even numbers as there are numbers. Half of infinite numbers is still infinite numbers.

[RobertoCarlos]

Hmmmmmmm.......looking at pictures, it seems the one I thought was pink is the purple one in various lighting.

Alright, that makes more sense, and why I thought soul was yellow.

The mind stone is yellow, Alar vision.

[Leih]

The mental gymnastics people are going through to justify things like that is just totally unnecessary for what could have been a movie even more epic than Infinity War.

It's the principle of over-complicating things. Movies called Somewhere In Time and Back to the Future you expect time travel to be an important plot device. Avengers: ENDGAME, 22 movies deep? I expected a Return of the King or Return of the Jedi level of epic. Instead I got Back to the Future hunting for doohickeys for more than half the movie and a 20 minute battle against Past Thanos. Sorry, that fell flat for me.

I thought this was an interesting comment. I had almost the exact opposite reaction to this film. Going in, with zero spoilers, I can honestly say I was kind of worried about this movie. The only thing I knew was that it had a 3 hour runtime and that, obviously, the heroes were going to win.

I was worried then that this was going to be a very bland film, in comparison to Infinity War which had been so interesting. Obviously this was going to start with the same tone as IW ended, with everyone sad and everything grim, and it was going to have to end with some sort of big battle with Thanos because that's the only satisfying way to conclude it.... but the middle 2 hours of the film? What was that going to be? I was worried how they were going to fill that time. Was it going to be hours of them hunting new random minions of Thanos and killing them to hunt him down? Was Thanos going to change his mind and come out of retirement to come wage war on them again? I hated those ideas.

So when I saw the film finally and what they decided to do with it, I was pleasantly surprised. Act 2 of this movie is some of the most outright fun and laughs I've ever had watching an MCU film, and the amount of fan service, references and opportunity for closure that this brings was amazing. Fuck, this movie even made me care about Thor: The Dark World. That's a feat in itself.

Worrying about the science of time travel and the consequences of that isn't the point in this movie. Maybe they can explore stuff like THAT later (Kang, anyone?) and that's fine. For a self-contained movie and the conclusion of Tony & Cap's story... I was very satisfied we got to have a good time and not a generic film that somehow stretched getting over their grumpiness and going on a hunt for Thanos and then killing him into a 3 hour movie.

[rogueMatthias]

SO...

Avatar is on $2,788.0 mil
Engame is currently on $2,188.7 mil after 2 weeks.

$599.3 million needed to beat Avatar. What are the chances or topping it?

[SirBeef]

SO...

Avatar is on $2,788.0 mil
Engame is currently on $2,188.7 mil after 2 weeks.

$599.3 million needed to beat Avatar. What are the chances or topping it?

Very good. That number was posted before we went to see it again and there were still 12 more showings in that theater that were all almost completely full. Plus it is only 9 days not 2 weeks yet.

[tyrlaan]

I thought this was an interesting comment. I had almost the exact opposite reaction to this film. Going in, with zero spoilers, I can honestly say I was kind of worried about this movie. The only thing I knew was that it had a 3 hour runtime and that, obviously, the heroes were going to win.

I was worried then that this was going to be a very bland film, in comparison to Infinity War which had been so interesting. Obviously this was going to start with the same tone as IW ended, with everyone sad and everything grim, and it was going to have to end with some sort of big battle with Thanos because that's the only satisfying way to conclude it.... but the middle 2 hours of the film? What was that going to be? I was worried how they were going to fill that time. Was it going to be hours of them hunting new random minions of Thanos and killing them to hunt him down? Was Thanos going to change his mind and come out of retirement to come wage war on them again? I hated those ideas.

So when I saw the film finally and what they decided to do with it, I was pleasantly surprised. Act 2 of this movie is some of the most outright fun and laughs I've ever had watching an MCU film, and the amount of fan service, references and opportunity for closure that this brings was amazing. Fuck, this movie even made me care about Thor: The Dark World. That's a feat in itself.

Worrying about the science of time travel and the consequences of that isn't the point in this movie. Maybe they can explore stuff like THAT later (Kang, anyone?) and that's fine. For a self-contained movie and the conclusion of Tony & Cap's story... I was very satisfied we got to have a good time and not a generic film that somehow stretched getting over their grumpiness and going on a hunt for Thanos and then killing him into a 3 hour movie.

You know what? All of this.

[SirBeef]

Yeah it's not necessarily "infinite" but it almost certainly is. Since the schism universes have very minimal differences from the prime one (assuming no intervention by Steve) events will probably play out very similarly, except for the 2014 splinter where Thanos is dead and Gamora and Nebula are missing which ends up with Ego awakening and destroying thousands of worlds because the Guardians of the Galaxy do not stop him. Unfortunately every schism that ends with a successful Endgame also ends with a schism 2014 and further schism Endgames, creating an infinite cascade.

Aside from Steve intervening, the best-case scenario is that everyone in the splinter worlds with Thanos in them somehow fails to defeat Thanos and never creates more schism worlds, so that an infinite cascade is avoided. Unfortunately this means there are 4 schism worlds where Thanos succeeds, bringing the death toll to 2 entire universes (along with Ego's genocide in 2014-B).

But the splintered timelines ceased to exist once the stones were returned. According to the movie, only when an infinity stone is removed a splinter is created. Once it is replaced at the time of it's removal, all is corrected.

[Mahourai]

But the splintered timelines ceased to exist once the stones were returned. According to the movie, only when an infinity stone is removed a splinter is created. Once it is replaced at the time of it's removal, all is corrected.

There is no way to square everything being "corrected" in other schism worlds with - for example - Thanos, Gamora and Nebula being missing in 2014-B. Replacing the Power Stone does not fix that. Alternatively, Steve exists for decades in a 1945-B schism world that had absolutely nothing to do with the Infinity Stones, then returned to 2019-A.

Swinton's dialogue is a prosaic way of saying "We need the Time Stone to remain here or in five years we'll all die to Dormammu's invasion". Clearly the Infinity Stone do not literally "create... the flow of time" otherwise causality would have been destroyed as soon as Thanos erased the gems.

[haygarden]

I can say that this is a very strong movie. Action is not so much, but the story of Iron Man and Captain America ended beautifully

[Ragedaug]

The Russo bros have confirmed he lived with Peggy in an alternate timeline and then came back to the main timeline. The rule it broke for me is I would have expected him to come back on the pad if that were true. However, someone's suggested that the movie doesn't affirm you MUST return on the pad; I can't remember the details from the movie though tbh. Another suggestion I've seen is that someone in the alternate timeline developed the tech to send him back to his original timeline/the main timeline. The latter seems quite plausible, but the movie should have handled Cap's return better so we wouldn't be stuck inventing rationalizations.

Going back to the first post I made about time travel, this whole discussion sums up the reason it's a problem. Instead of discussing the movie, we are discussing time travel and either rationalizing it or critiquing it. Probably will never get everyone to agree on how it "should" work. And in the end, it just distracts from the story instead of enhancing it.